What is the difference between "formal war" and "surprise war", what is "warmonger" and what is "Casus Belli"?

[amprikuku]

As in the title, I am most interested with the difference between "formal" and "surprise" wars and wanted to know the meaning of "Casus Belli".

"Casus" means "spy" in Turkish so it blowns my mind.

Thanks.

[Blupp]

"Formal war" means your war is justified, you have specific reason to go to war.
"Casus belli" is the act that you use to justify said war. (the reason why you go to war).
"Surprise war" doesnt need anything from the above, you can attack anyone at any time (has high warmonger penalty).

[Manic]

Casus belli means "case of war" in Latin. It is a reason given for going to war.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/casus_belli

Formal war is when a nation makes a formal declaration of war.

Surprise war is attacking people without a declaration of war.

Warmonger is a reputation you earn for going to war, capturing/razing enemy cities, and so on.

[Lady Grey]

Doesn't Formal War typically come after a Denouncement?

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by Matimus:

Doesn't Formal War typically come after a Denouncement?

Several turns later, yes. It's not a "surprise" because of that.

[CivNut123]

Essentially, you have to denounce someone before declaring war. If you do not, and you declare a suprise war, then the war monger penalties are even more severe.

Denouncing is a way of expressing disapproval of another civ. It typical lasts 30 turns (?). The other civ will gain a negative impression of you, that you can see in the relationship screen.

Warmongering will give all civs a negative impression of your civ.

There is also the possibility of a joint war. It takes place right away. I'm not really sure if you have to denounce first in that case to reduce warmonger penalties. I haven't tried denouncing first.

Casus is from Latin.

[Stormsigh]

Originally posted by Matimus:

Doesn't Formal War typically come after a Denouncement?

Probably it should, but it doesn't.

I dislike it intensely when supposed friendly Civs (by listed reputation) suddenly declare war for no apparent reason. No denouncement, no sulks over actions, no nothing. One minute green smile face, next minute boom...

[CivNut123]

Originally posted by xoanon:

Originally posted by Matimus:

Doesn't Formal War typically come after a Denouncement?

Probably it should, but it doesn't.

I dislike it intensely when supposed friendly Civs (by listed reputation) suddenly declare war for no apparent reason. No denouncement, no sulks over actions, no nothing. One minute green smile face, next minute boom...

Nobody expects a surprise war. :)

A green smiley face is a kinda like what is going on on the surface. The question is what is changing underneath. Is the civ gravitating towards disliking you, because of certain factors?

[[BH] LordIronhead]

I think you get a casus belli after you got denounced by someone. If you denounce someone you'll have to wait 5 turns at least until you can declare a formal war.
Not sure but i believe that the warmonger penalty is lower if you got denounced because that is a casus belli not a formal war.

[CivNut123]

Originally posted by BH LordIronhead:

I think you get a casus belli after you got denounced by someone. If you denounce someone you'll have to wait 5 turns at least until you can declare a formal war.
Not sure but i believe that the warmonger penalty is lower if you got denounced because that is a casus belli not a formal war.

For the later Casus Beli you have to have gotten the diplomacy (?) civic which will list a bunch of new types.

For example, if another civ falls three techs behind you, you can declare a colonial war (once you have the civic).

It may not list a reason either, but just say "moderate" or something like that, I think.

Once a new Casus Beli has appeared for a civ, there will be a notification on the right side of the screen.

[D3bs]

Lets face it though, it's hardly ever a surprise war really; even when it's only your 'best friend' loitering round trying to look innocent,

[Riggles]

If you do a joint war it counts as a formal war, in manu cases this makes life harder as you get a bigger warmongerer penalty than if you did a religious war or similar.

Generally however, if you capture (and keep after the war) or raise cities the warmonger penalty is so large you may as well do a suprise war as everyone will hate you anyway.

[amprikuku]

Originally posted by Blupp:

"Formal war" means your war is justified, you have specific reason to go to war.
"Casus belli" is the act that you use to justify said war. (the reason why you go to war).
"Surprise war" doesnt need anything from the above, you can attack anyone at any time (has high warmonger penalty).

And can't I raze cities if I declare a "formal" war?

[BladeSe7en [ICON_RESOURCE_FURS]]

Originally posted by CivNut123:

Originally posted by xoanon:

Probably it should, but it doesn't.

I dislike it intensely when supposed friendly Civs (by listed reputation) suddenly declare war for no apparent reason. No denouncement, no sulks over actions, no nothing. One minute green smile face, next minute boom...

Nobody expects a surprise war. :)

A green smiley face is a kinda like what is going on on the surface. The question is what is changing underneath. Is the civ gravitating towards disliking you, because of certain factors?

Declaring a formal war or using any Casus Belli requires a denouncement and waiting 5 turns. Otherwise you are only allowed to declare surprise wars..
Btw civnut what did you do to get that banned tag lol

[BladeSe7en [ICON_RESOURCE_FURS]]

Originally posted by berkant.ipek:

Originally posted by Blupp:

"Formal war" means your war is justified, you have specific reason to go to war.
"Casus belli" is the act that you use to justify said war. (the reason why you go to war).
"Surprise war" doesnt need anything from the above, you can attack anyone at any time (has high warmonger penalty).

And can't I raze cities if I declare a "formal" war?

You can always raze a captured city regardless of who or how war was declared

[dpokerface]

Originally posted by Riggles:

If you do a joint war it counts as a formal war, in manu cases this makes life harder as you get a bigger warmongerer penalty than if you did a religious war or similar.

Generally however, if you capture (and keep after the war) or raise cities the warmonger penalty is so large you may as well do a suprise war as everyone will hate you anyway.

OK, that makes sense, because I've had civs declare "formal war" on me without denouncements or casus belli. but they've been joint wars, so that's what qualifies them as "formal."