Do Battering Rams and Siege Towers Actually Work?

[Spike Protein™]

I've played for about 200 hours now and have yet to see either of these support units actually allow my melee units to deal full damage to/skip over the walls of a city...

Am I doing something wrong?

[Dray Prescot]

Have you surrounded their city with your zones of control to keep them under siege? Once you do that they will stop healing inside their city so you can wear them down enough to actully conquer their city. Look at siege in the Civolepedia.

added: I did use a siege tower to Athens once. Combined with sieging the city with zones of control to prevent healing inside the city, including healig of the Ancient City Walls it seemed to work.

Added again: all 6 tiles surrounding the city to be either
1) occupied by your units
2) controlled by the zone of control of your units that have a zone of control
3) be mountain tiles
4) be a Wonder (I think this last item is correct, but you ought to be to occuppy it anyway, if I am wrong about it)

If all 6 tiles meet these conditions, then the city is besieged and stops healing damage to the city and the defending unit in the city. Once that starts happening you are on the road to capturing the city.

Siege Towers or battering rams help hold down on how much damage your units take and increase the damage (I think) that defending city and unit take in each of the several (many) attacks you make to wear down the defenders enough to take the city.

Any ranged units that can be brought into range have the advantage that they do not take damage from the defenders while inflicting losses on the defenders. But generally speaking melee type units will inflict more damage in their attacks on defenders, but they take damage in return.

I could be wrong on details, but I think that is the essence of besieging successfully an enemy city. As long as the defenders keep healing every turn, it is much harder to mount a successful conquest of that city.

[Bullet Cake]

I think only meelee units can cause a ZOC so mix it up abit with 2 ranged & 2 meelee units. I myself have never built those Rams or Siege towers, i would rather go for a bombard unit that are designed to damage city defenses etc.

[Mansen]

Bullet Cake の投稿を引用：

I think only meelee units can cause a ZOC so mix it up abit with 2 ranged & 2 meelee units. I myself have never built those Rams or Siege towers, i would rather go for a bombard unit that are designed to damage city defenses etc.

Archers and such get a promotion option as well. And I agree - Rams and Siege towers feel utterly superfluous to me. Just bring another archer and/or a bombard.

[Homeboy32]

I was wondering the exact same thing myself. Does the siege tower only provide the support to a melee unit that shares the same tile as the siege? Also, I believe the siege tower and battering ram become obsolete if the city has certain walls built or after a certain era??

[Sykomyke]

Rams and Siege towers are for early aggressive civs such as Norway or Sumeria for example, they'll be pushing for those siege units long before they have catapults...

[Mansen]

Sykomyke の投稿を引用：

Rams and Siege towers are for early aggressive civs such as Norway or Sumeria for example, they'll be pushing for those siege units long before they have catapults...

I often start out aggressive as Rome or Germany - I don't feel like I have any issues taking cities with 3 archers and a melee unit even in Ancient times. And Ranged units pretty much rule Civ, so I'd rather skimp on support units and melee whenever possible. Parking an archer in a city for the bonuses makes for a much more defensive position than melee imo.

[Manic]

Those early siege units are a waste of time to build. In the early game before you have catapults, you can easily use melee and archers to take cities. Sumer and Aztecs just need to spam warcarts and eagle warrios, respectiviely, and go on a rampage. You don't even need ranged units right away.

[BladeSe7en [ICON_RESOURCE_FURS]]

Rams and towers allow melee units to deal damage to the walls and city health. Without them units must destroy the walls first before dealing any damage to the city. As long as they are adjacent to the city any melee unit on the surrounding 6 tiles benefits from its effect. However if a city does not have walls they don't deal any extra damage. I like the towers over early bombard units because catapults need line of sight and unless promoted can't attack after moving. Also towers work great with calvary units when they get the promotion that allows them to share their movement points with thier formation units.

[Homeboy32]

BladeSe7en の投稿を引用：

Rams and towers allow melee units to deal damage to the walls and city health. Without them units must destroy the walls first before dealing any damage to the city. As long as they are adjacent to the city any melee unit on the surrounding 6 tiles benefits from its effect. However if a city does not have walls they don't deal any extra damage. I like the towers over early bombard units because catapults need line of sight and unless promoted can't attack after moving. Also towers work great with calvary units when they get the promotion that allows them to share their movement points with thier formation units.

Finally an answer to my question! They benefit all units surrounding a city.

[Jeff]

Homeboy32 の投稿を引用：

BladeSe7en の投稿を引用：

Rams and towers allow melee units to deal damage to the walls and city health. Without them units must destroy the walls first before dealing any damage to the city. As long as they are adjacent to the city any melee unit on the surrounding 6 tiles benefits from its effect. However if a city does not have walls they don't deal any extra damage. I like the towers over early bombard units because catapults need line of sight and unless promoted can't attack after moving. Also towers work great with calvary units when they get the promotion that allows them to share their movement points with thier formation units.

Finally an answer to my question! They benefit all units surrounding a city.

Haha, I was thinking the same thing when I was reading these random responses! The siege and ram towers work, by the way, to answer your other question.

[Spike Protein™]

BladeSe7en の投稿を引用：

Rams and towers allow melee units to deal damage to the walls and city health. Without them units must destroy the walls first before dealing any damage to the city. As long as they are adjacent to the city any melee unit on the surrounding 6 tiles benefits from its effect. However if a city does not have walls they don't deal any extra damage. I like the towers over early bombard units because catapults need line of sight and unless promoted can't attack after moving. Also towers work great with calvary units when they get the promotion that allows them to share their movement points with thier formation units.

I understand that that is how they are supposed to work, my point more specifically is that I have never actually seen the bonuses they supposedly give to melee units in action.

Like someone else earlier in the thread, I too usually play Germany and take early cities with just archers and a couple melee units screening. Recently I decided to rush a siege tower to see if it'd have any impact. It doesn't appear to change the result of attacks I make on cities - my melee units don't bypass walls and attack the city center directly.

I play on Immortal and Deity difficulty, is it possible that there is a certain level of wall that obsoletes these support units, and the production bonus of the AI means they beat me to that level of city defense before I'm in sieging range?

[BladeSe7en [ICON_RESOURCE_FURS]]

Mr. Clean の投稿を引用：

BladeSe7en の投稿を引用：

Rams and towers allow melee units to deal damage to the walls and city health. Without them units must destroy the walls first before dealing any damage to the city. As long as they are adjacent to the city any melee unit on the surrounding 6 tiles benefits from its effect. However if a city does not have walls they don't deal any extra damage. I like the towers over early bombard units because catapults need line of sight and unless promoted can't attack after moving. Also towers work great with calvary units when they get the promotion that allows them to share their movement points with thier formation units.

I understand that that is how they are supposed to work, my point more specifically is that I have never actually seen the bonuses they supposedly give to melee units in action.

Like someone else earlier in the thread, I too usually play Germany and take early cities with just archers and a couple melee units screening. Recently I decided to rush a siege tower to see if it'd have any impact. It doesn't appear to change the result of attacks I make on cities - my melee units don't bypass walls and attack the city center directly.

I play on Immortal and Deity difficulty, is it possible that there is a certain level of wall that obsoletes these support units, and the production bonus of the AI means they beat me to that level of city defense before I'm in sieging range?

it appears that youre simply not paying attention is all. rams and towers are very effective at taking down walls faster. rams and towers do become obsolete in the terms of you not being able to build them. but no in terms of walls they dont ever negate the effects of rams and towers. they are still effective in the infomation era if you still have them around. mind you city defense plays a major role in how much damage is done but trust me rams and towers work well

[Spike Protein™]

So now that I've started watching more closely it does appear as if towers and rams both work as described, it's just that the UI is woefully inadequate at making it clear that they are changing the outcome of combat. I was anticipating that they would give a modifier in the combat window or would at the very least remove the +defense from walls bonus indicator.

Strangely enough I've now begun to notice that siege towers are affecting my ranged units, or at the very least my field cannons (haven't used any other ranged units yet with siege towers at the city)! They are mowing through the city centers faster than their surrounding walls...

[SakuraKoi]

So... what about battery rams with tanks?

or submarines/ships?

or bombers?

(Genuinely curious considering what was written about how the effect applies and may not)

[Spike Protein™]

As of now I've used bombards and field cannons, both of which appear to be mowing through the city center prior to walls now and the city center ends up dead before the walls do.

Probably an oversight.