Does the AI actually play the game or does it just fake it?

[Lootie]

I just read this article ( https://explorminate.net/2017/07/03/exposition-ai-civilization-vi-edition/ ) in which the author analyzes the game's AI and claims the AI doesn't really play the game but essentially just 'fakes' it. According to him it doesn't build or research anything and instead is gifted techs, units, buildings, etc at regular intervals, only giving the illusion of a real competitor.

Can anyone confirm this?
I'm thinking of buying the game, but if this is true it would be a deal breaker for me.
I'm fully aware that the AI isn't the best and probably gets massive bonuses like in any other 4x game, but if it doesn't even remotely play by the same rules as the player, this game isn't for me.

[Azunai]

i've read the article but i don't find the "fake play" argument convincing. the author doesn't provide any proff for this thesis at all.

just some anecdotal evidence that sometime AI cities will conveniently spit out units at just the right time while you're invading. that could be seen as "fake play" - or it's simply an AI that lucked out with normal production or rush-bought a unit with gold.

some of his points are valid, but that "fake play" thesis is just wild speculation with nothing to back it up. believe it if you will, but it's really just a conspiracy theory.

[donald23]

OTIS a écrit :

I remember playing a game of Civ VI where I met a computer player around 5 turns in. I started making more warriors as soon as I met him because I thought it might attack. By the time I finished one warrior they denounced me because I had a weak military. That was around 5-10 turns later. They then attacked with almost a dozen units.

A dozen units in like 20 turns maximum. No player could ever field an army so big in only 20 turns. They take no less than 5-6 turns a piece. So you would get three, maybe four if you are lucky, and if you put all off your resources into military without worrying about infrastructure.

So in my opinion darn straight they were 'gifted' units, because otherwise they could never get that many units to begin with. And I was playing on the lowest difficulty, not the highest. Imagine how many gifts they would get then!

I call ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on this.
On the lowest difficulty you as the player get bonuses and the AI gets penalties. No way they can field such an army in 20 turns, not unless you are using mods that help the AI or not remembering right.


The AI does get bonuses and actually just plays by the same game rules any other player has to follow.
These are the bonuses they get:
http://civ6.gamepedia.com/Game_difficulty

Check this video: even in Civ6 you can have the AI play each other (use the Firetuner for that) and see that the AI just plays the game.
https://youtu.be/l9oGTVER1rY?list=PL-lTq9LJCHpT48yWISqWYusDyXveGNCkb

[SpongeScrub]

I am making a youtube series that I let the AI battle against eachother with autoplay, to determine the best AI leader. I see so many matches that the AI does not take a victory that is just 3 turns ahead, but instead start focussing on a different victory instead! Also, sometimes the AI places all of its milatary to one side of its empire, while at the other side it is being invaded and has no units to protect itself. Cheating AI is fine for me (as long it maintains the same difficulty during the entire game, which is not the case atm. Start is hard, mid-game is fair, while late game offers no resistence at all). But this gamethrowing AI is unexeptable for me! It makes me feel I am treated like a little kid that only wins, because its parents let him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR4tDIIsDmU&list=PLKA0AAP2rY1VG9HILl8w0STKgKz-j5qiT

[travisdead1]

You can't compare the AI to XCom2's AI, just because both games are turn based. They are different games, the AI has different goals. Aliens don't have to build a city. It's AI is less complex. Some may think it's better, that is their right.

What is "good" or "bad" is subjective. Every subjject that plays the game has their own diffinitions of both words. Because the AI doesn't do what someone wants it to do, they can think that means it's "bad", and it's absolutely true...for THEM, that person only.

The AI's programing achieved the goals of the designers or they wouldn't have released it. IF those goals weren't your goals and that bothers you, then don't play the game :)

I'm sorry if you had to spend money to find out you didn't like it. I think all games should have a free try out of some kind. For turn based, maybe 100 turns, or 400 turns. Something like that.

[jbibler]

travisdead1 a écrit :

Y

What is "good" or "bad" is subjective. Every subjject that plays the game has their own diffinitions of both words. Because the AI doesn't do what someone wants it to do, they can think that means it's "bad", and it's absolutely true...for THEM, that person only.

The AI's programing achieved the goals of the designers or they wouldn't have released it. IF those goals weren't your goals and that bothers you, then don't play the game :)

By this "logic" there is no such thing as bad AI. If I release a game with no AI that would meet my goal of making money and it's your fault you don't appreciate it's beauty.

[travisdead1]

That's right :) Nothing is "bad" and nothing is "good". The two words are intellectualized abstractions. They are not objects, they are not constructed of molecules and cannot be tested,measured or quanitified. This means they are not "real", and that any definition depends on the subject that considers it.

This "logic" is impeccable. You can argue with Plato if you like :)

There are many games with no AI. Most of them utilize dice and the players own basic math skills and feature a cardboard playing field.

[Marbaus]

That article reveals a dispicible truth... and the company wonders why people are not happy with the ai...

AI is hard to program, but if it was easy then we wouldn't be paying money for the luxary of a triple AAA company developing such a thing.

Take it to the next level, there are astounding developments in AI these days.... this is just lazy. Too much on the disney graphix(which is not bad just not a theme I am a fan of for these kinds of games) and not enough on what makes the game a 'game'.

travisdead1 a écrit :

That's right :) Nothing is "bad" and nothing is "good". The two words are intellectualized abstractions. They are not objects, they are not constructed of molecules and cannot be tested,measured or quanitified. This means they are not "real", and that any definition depends on the subject that considers it.

This "logic" is impeccable. You can argue with Plato if you like :)

There are many games with no AI. Most of them utilize dice and the players own basic math skills and feature a cardboard playing field.

This is an interesting thing. You are right when it comes down to it(not that you need me to tell you lol). However there is an aspect in nature that denotes the positve and negative energies. One, positive/masculine, is the high attraction but doesn't do much, but the negative(feminine), spends a lot of energy and is the motion. These two principles work to make this universe the way it is. Neither is 'good' or 'bad' but we have created such terms to justify certain motives to do things. All work in sequence, all work to the least resistance balancing between several different positive and negative charges in waves. It goes beyond that as well, but that isn't on topic.

If they programed AI with the +attraction and -repulsion concept in that which their goals are prioitized by what is closer to greater attraction and or repulsion to a thing the game would move much smoother and it is extremely simple. The path of least resistance is the way of the universe in it's natural state. It is easier to program in a way that makes sense rather than forcing a program to make sense of how to react to what a human player or even another simulated challanger would do.

[lukasz74nj]

AI in Civ 6 is totally dumb. I played once on deity and was not attacked for the entire game. After continuously clicking "end of turn" I gave up. This is the worst game in the series. I doubt the designers focus on AI anymore. They want to sell the looks and multiplayer then keep charging for "extension packs". Such a waste of money.

[seiffertoli]

I guess, not even a Dev can answer you That question, as many others around theyr totally screwed up system

[cheshire.panther]

Every time I think of bying the game I keep hitting gems like this

[Shahadem]

donald23 a écrit :

OTIS a écrit :

I remember playing a game of Civ VI where I met a computer player around 5 turns in. I started making more warriors as soon as I met him because I thought it might attack. By the time I finished one warrior they denounced me because I had a weak military. That was around 5-10 turns later. They then attacked with almost a dozen units.

A dozen units in like 20 turns maximum. No player could ever field an army so big in only 20 turns. They take no less than 5-6 turns a piece. So you would get three, maybe four if you are lucky, and if you put all off your resources into military without worrying about infrastructure.

So in my opinion darn straight they were 'gifted' units, because otherwise they could never get that many units to begin with. And I was playing on the lowest difficulty, not the highest. Imagine how many gifts they would get then!

I call ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on this.
On the lowest difficulty you as the player get bonuses and the AI gets penalties. No way they can field such an army in 20 turns, not unless you are using mods that help the AI or not remembering right.


The AI does get bonuses and actually just plays by the same game rules any other player has to follow.
These are the bonuses they get:
http://civ6.gamepedia.com/Game_difficulty

Check this video: even in Civ6 you can have the AI play each other (use the Firetuner for that) and see that the AI just plays the game.
https://youtu.be/l9oGTVER1rY?list=PL-lTq9LJCHpT48yWISqWYusDyXveGNCkb

This isn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. It exists in that area where it is neither true nor false. AIs start the game with a ridiculous number of extra units, 5 warriors & 2 settlers. When the computer then builds 4 more units they have 9 warriors. When those 9 warriors attack they have a "dozen" units. So it is true that the computer only got those units by cheating, but the cheating occured at the beginning of the game rather than via excessive cheating later. The cheating after the start of the game takes the form of bonus production, money, etc.

[Name Lips]

I've never been quite clear if the AI is playing to WIN or just playing. Do they pick a victory path and try to complete it? Or do they just muddle through, respond and survive, and then win by accident?

[leandrombraz]

Shahadem a écrit :

donald23 a écrit :

I call ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on this.
On the lowest difficulty you as the player get bonuses and the AI gets penalties. No way they can field such an army in 20 turns, not unless you are using mods that help the AI or not remembering right.


The AI does get bonuses and actually just plays by the same game rules any other player has to follow.
These are the bonuses they get:
http://civ6.gamepedia.com/Game_difficulty

Check this video: even in Civ6 you can have the AI play each other (use the Firetuner for that) and see that the AI just plays the game.
https://youtu.be/l9oGTVER1rY?list=PL-lTq9LJCHpT48yWISqWYusDyXveGNCkb

This isn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. It exists in that area where it is neither true nor false. AIs start the game with a ridiculous number of extra units, 5 warriors & 2 settlers. When the computer then builds 4 more units they have 9 warriors. When those 9 warriors attack they have a "dozen" units. So it is true that the computer only got those units by cheating, but the cheating occured at the beginning of the game rather than via excessive cheating later. The cheating after the start of the game takes the form of bonus production, money, etc.

donald23 is calling BS because OTIS said it's in the lowest difficulty, where the player get some help, not the AI. On Deity that is possible, the AI start with 3 settlers, 5 Warriors and get 2 free builders when a district is built. On Settler the AI start with 1 settler and 1 warrior and no free builders, same as the player, which is the case in all difficulties up to Prince, as you can see here:

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Difficulty_level_(Civ6)


This link also show why I don't think the theory in the article is true. Why give a 32% science bonus to the AI if science don't determine how the AI unlock techs? Why give it 80% more production and gold if the AI just receive units as gift in a determined interval? That's because the AI is playing the game. It spawn units out of nowhere because it's getting some serious production/gold bonus, 80% is no joke.

[Shahadem]

leandrombraz a écrit :

Shahadem a écrit :

This isn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. It exists in that area where it is neither true nor false. AIs start the game with a ridiculous number of extra units, 5 warriors & 2 settlers. When the computer then builds 4 more units they have 9 warriors. When those 9 warriors attack they have a "dozen" units. So it is true that the computer only got those units by cheating, but the cheating occured at the beginning of the game rather than via excessive cheating later. The cheating after the start of the game takes the form of bonus production, money, etc.

donald23 is calling BS because OTIS said it's in the lowest difficulty, where the player get some help, not the AI. On Deity that is possible, the AI start with 3 settlers, 5 Warriors and get 2 free builders when a district is built. On Settler the AI start with 1 settler and 1 warrior and no free builders, same as the player, which is the case in all difficulties up to Prince, as you can see here:

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Difficulty_level_(Civ6)


This link also show why I don't think the theory in the article is true. Why give a 32% science bonus to the AI if science don't determine how the AI unlock techs? Why give it 80% more production and gold if the AI just receive units as gift in a determined interval? That's because the AI is playing the game. It spawn units out of nowhere because it's getting some serious production/gold bonus, 80% is no joke.

I think Settler difficulty is bugged at present and the bonuses are actually given to AI. Settler is much harder than Chieftain.

You are also forgetting about the other systems in the game. Espionage, diplomacy, etcs. Also I remember watching a playthrough called "How to Play HARDCORE Civ VI" which is a Deity playthrough with 21 civs on a map made up of 21 single snow tile islands and the civs were all limited to civs that get no bonuses on the map. Despite the fact that artic tiles produce no gold, it is impossible to build districts, and the AI had 15 units, the AI had 23,034 gold by the time the player had earned 571 gold despite neither player having a harbor or a single Wonder. 80% bonus on top of 571 =1,028 gold, not 23,034.

[Tatanka]

donald23 a écrit :

OTIS a écrit :

I remember playing a game of Civ VI where I met a computer player around 5 turns in. I started making more warriors as soon as I met him because I thought it might attack. By the time I finished one warrior they denounced me because I had a weak military. That was around 5-10 turns later. They then attacked with almost a dozen units.

A dozen units in like 20 turns maximum. No player could ever field an army so big in only 20 turns. They take no less than 5-6 turns a piece. So you would get three, maybe four if you are lucky, and if you put all off your resources into military without worrying about infrastructure.

So in my opinion darn straight they were 'gifted' units, because otherwise they could never get that many units to begin with. And I was playing on the lowest difficulty, not the highest. Imagine how many gifts they would get then!

I call ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on this.
On the lowest difficulty you as the player get bonuses and the AI gets penalties. No way they can field such an army in 20 turns, not unless you are using mods that help the AI or not remembering right.


The AI does get bonuses and actually just plays by the same game rules any other player has to follow.
These are the bonuses they get:
http://civ6.gamepedia.com/Game_difficulty

Check this video: even in Civ6 you can have the AI play each other (use the Firetuner for that) and see that the AI just plays the game.
https://youtu.be/l9oGTVER1rY?list=PL-lTq9LJCHpT48yWISqWYusDyXveGNCkb

The only ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ here is what these guys are saying about the AI.