Founding a religion at higher AI difficulties and faster game speeds

[geldedgoat]

I'm finding it impossible to found a religion at emperor difficulty or higher going at online speed (unless of course I pick Saladin). Maybe if I started with a natural wonder right next to me I could pull it off, but otherwise I can't overcome the AI's faster start to get in the race. Obviously, it's still easy enough to *win* the game via one of the other victory conditions, but I've been frustrated trying to take the first step towards a religious victory at those higher difficulties. Has anyone else managed to pull it off?

[VeronicaCardican]

Beeline for the Shrine and do the Holy Site's project once the Shrine is up. Use patronage to win a close race if necessary. That should usually help you out.

Being Greece helps because you can pick the +2 Great Prophet Points policy early as does the Divine Spark Pantheon. But you should be fine with any set of Pantheon and civ generally.

[geldedgoat]

I just tried doing that with Japan, thinking the faster district build speed would happen. The problem was that I wasn't able to get the natural wonder boost in time, so I had to rely on hard teching it. By the time my second city had another holy site to help contribute great person points, I was already too far behind in last place for getting a prophet. I just started a new game at standard speed (and same difficulty), and I'm comfortably in position to get the second prophet.

[kertais]

you can i won on deity by religion,
first research archery for def and if have time build setttler.
after that go for research for religion once you build the holy district. Go for religion points do not build anything . How they called points for great person build.
also i found once you build walls they are passive to attack you so , you are safe play .
i suggest build a lot comercial districts to get merchants for amnety bonuses like jeans , perfume etc, it gona help for lack of exotic resources
Ps
english not my first language

[Johnny Foodstamp]

I've managed to get a religion on deity using a few different methods.


1. Use China. Their unique ability allows to burn worker charges to rush wonders. Rush the tech and build Stonehenge. I've never managed to build Stonehenge on this difficulty without China's ability.

2. Pantheon Divine Spark + Holy Sites and Shrines in first 2 cities should be enough. I hesitate to set production to prayers because it feels wasteful.

3. Save on Turn 1. Send out some scouts until you find a natural wonder. Then start over on your save and beeline to the natural wonder. Kinda cheap but it works. :)

[Corgisaurus]

China, Stonehenge. Reserach Astrology immediately, build builder right after scout and rush it. Guarantees you a Religion 9 out of 10 times on Emperor. Still possible on Deity but you'll be vulnerable. Definitely the fastest way to religion.

Alternatively, use Poland/Greece wildcard for Great Prophet Points after researching Astrology and Mysticism Asap. Build Holy Sites and Shrines as soon as you can.

Russia and Japan can build their Holy Site Districts twice as fast and Russia has 2 Great Prophet Points per turn from the Lavra instead of 1.

Found a Pantheon Asap and choose Divine Spark for bonus Great People Points. (Prophets, Scientists and Writers.)

For all Civs your priority should be to get a Holy Site and Shrine up as soon as possible and use Wildcard for Great Prophet Points. (Mysticism)

Any other Civs beside the ones mentioned above will need a LOT of Luck to found a religion on Deity on top of doing everything else; depending on the opponents. If they all favor Religion you will never be able to found a one because you simply cannot beat them to it.

[geldedgoat]

Just to be clear, y'all have pulled this off on deity ***at online speed***?

...though I can see China having success by sacrificing builder charges on Stonehenge.

[Corgisaurus]

Originally posted by geldedgoat:

Just to be clear, y'all have pulled this off on deity ***at online speed***?

...though I can see China having success by sacrificing builder charges on Stonehenge.

Can't say I've tried on online speed but I don't see how the pacing affects your chances since everything scales accordingly except for movement and combat.

[geldedgoat]

That's what I was thinking has been the problem: not being able to explore out the natural wonder boost quickly enough.

[Dray Prescot]

Try going out and conquering your Holy Site from your nearest neighbor.

[kertais]

done on online speed

[geldedgoat]

Alright then, guess I'll just have to look back at my build order and git gud. Cheers all!

[Tatanka]

Or you can simply buy a prophet
thats what the +1gold +1faith card is for
not get pantheon asap :D

so weird in all these threads of how impossible religion is, noone ever mentions this except me ...

also if you have a religious cs nearby wait for them to build holysite and capture it once its placed, its the first thing they do and they usless for bonus anyway
if you have one nearby, b-lining for religion isnt even needed.

[Professor H. Farnsworth]

Here's how you get a religion as the first or second everytime.

1. Choose Astrology.
2. Put your City to equal split between Food/Production
3. Go into Citizen screen - if you have a Rice/Wheat Farm/Marsh or Cattle/Sheep/Horses set your Citizen to work this field (more citizens = faster culture and science = faster Astrology) after which you can leave the game to choose spots for you.
3. Build a Builder (Improve 1x Rice or Wheat tile with Farm in your Capital - save him until you can chop Woods
4. Build a Settler (either you found a Natural Wonder and Astrology is done or it will be close to done at this point)
5. Start Mining Tech so you can chop down woods and/or build mines to speed up production.
6. Around this point Chiefdom civic should be done --> choose God King (forget God King if you got a Relic from a Village but only if you got a Relic) over +1 Production.
7. Build a Holy Site in both your cities (don't build Shrines Divine Spark should be enough)
8. Pantheon should pop either a bit before/after you start your first Holy Site (depends on Resources available and/or Friendly Villages)
9. Build Builder --> Warrior --> Slinger
11. Start the Pottery Tech (Mining should be done)
12. Start the Irrigation Tech.
13. Build Builder --> Warrior --> Slinger
14. Get Hanging Gardens.

Throw in the occasional Warrior/Slinger or you'll probably get over turned a few turns later - BUT NEVER so that it blocks your Holy Sites from being started/finished on time (use your gold reserves to buy them if necessary).

I've yet to lose the Religion race when doing the above. Haven't tried it on Diety but it's worked on all other difficulties above King, don't see why it wouldn't on Diety.

[Professor H. Farnsworth]

Originally posted by De Zeis:

Or you can simply buy a prophet
thats what the +1gold +1faith card is for
not get pantheon asap :D

so weird in all these threads of how impossible religion is, noone ever mentions this except me ...

also if you have a religious cs nearby wait for them to build holysite and capture it once its placed, its the first thing they do and they usless for bonus anyway
if you have one nearby, b-lining for religion isnt even needed.

It's quite simple.

You won't get enough Gold and/or Faith in time for you to buy or outdo the GPP AIs produce unless you think 1100 turns before you can buy the "first" prophet is how to do it. It's not why that card is around and totally - not a valid strategy.
(I might be affected by some Mod in this respect but the overall idea is the same)

Why? Patronage cost 10x the GPP in Faith and/or Gold.
- Alone in faith it would take you 1100 turns to get it with that card and that's often times a fair few turns into the game as it's only available after Chiefdom has been researched - meaning AIs will already get GPP for Prophets.
- Gold is a bit more tricky as it depends on location (location, location!) You can earn in-between 5 and 10 in the beginning meaning you have in-between 110 turns - 220 turns before you COULD have bought the first prophet

Before you even have any remote chance of buying said first prophet the AIs will have gotten 3-4 prophets neatly landing you in-between 2500 gold/faith up to 71000 gold/faith

[Tatanka]

Originally posted by Professor H. Farnsworth:

Originally posted by De Zeis:

Or you can simply buy a prophet
thats what the +1gold +1faith card is for
not get pantheon asap :D

so weird in all these threads of how impossible religion is, noone ever mentions this except me ...

also if you have a religious cs nearby wait for them to build holysite and capture it once its placed, its the first thing they do and they usless for bonus anyway
if you have one nearby, b-lining for religion isnt even needed.

It's quite simple.

You won't get enough Gold and/or Faith in time for you to buy or outdo the GPP AIs produce unless you think 1100 turns before you can buy the "first" prophet is how to do it. It's not why that card is around and totally - not a valid strategy.
(I might be affected by some Mod in this respect but the overall idea is the same)

Why? Patronage cost 10x the GPP in Faith and/or Gold.
- Alone in faith it would take you 1100 turns to get it with that card and that's often times a fair few turns into the game as it's only available after Chiefdom has been researched - meaning AIs will already get GPP for Prophets.
- Gold is a bit more tricky as it depends on location (location, location!) You can earn in-between 5 and 10 in the beginning meaning you have in-between 110 turns - 220 turns before you COULD have bought the first prophet

Before you even have any remote chance of buying said first prophet the AIs will have gotten 3-4 prophets neatly landing you in-between 2500 gold/faith up to 71000 gold/faith

you do know price goes down iwth accumulated points? you dont need to have the first prophet, you can still get religion with only one prophet remaining.
Even if you are last to build a shrine, if you wait till last possible moment a prophet costs likes 300 gold or faith.
I never ended up without religion and i never focus on it ...