METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN

METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN

Bejdza Dec 31, 2024 @ 6:12am
Is big boss supposed to be shown as very evil or what?
Now I played PW and V like 5 years ago but I don't remember instances of BB being evil other than what he did to venom...
If he's supposed to be this big bad guy why do you effectively get punished for killing?
I understand that for solid but for BB not rly
Hell he saved the world in PW
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Defective Soul Dec 31, 2024 @ 7:32am 
Well... you ain't a big boss, you are venom... and venom is just an cover ops
Big boss is... more of an adult with gray morale, he is original snake and despite accepting wars and etc, he did tryed to free every militant's mind via Outher Heavem hoping that that way those who are find themselfs as soldiers won't had to burry country's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (imagine russians soldiers dennying russian order to fight agains urkaine and mass-migrating to outher haeaven and then just help on thei own bases ukraine agains those who after all decided to fight against)
He is the one to have higgest understanding of price of peace
Last edited by Defective Soul; Dec 31, 2024 @ 7:32am
Devsman Dec 31, 2024 @ 7:59am 
He's the series bad guy, but his prequels point out that he really kind of took the least evil path he could have.
Bejdza Dec 31, 2024 @ 8:42am 
Originally posted by Defective Soul:
Well... you ain't a big boss, you are venom... and venom is just an cover ops
Big boss is... more of an adult with gray morale, he is original snake and despite accepting wars and etc, he did tryed to free every militant's mind via Outher Heavem hoping that that way those who are find themselfs as soldiers won't had to burry country's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (imagine russians soldiers dennying russian order to fight agains urkaine and mass-migrating to outher haeaven and then just help on thei own bases ukraine agains those who after all decided to fight against)
He is the one to have higgest understanding of price of peace
Yeah but venom is supposed to replicate BB
Defective Soul Dec 31, 2024 @ 10:57am 
Originally posted by Bejdza:
Originally posted by Defective Soul:
Well... you ain't a big boss, you are venom... and venom is just an cover ops
Big boss is... more of an adult with gray morale, he is original snake and despite accepting wars and etc, he did tryed to free every militant's mind via Outher Heavem hoping that that way those who are find themselfs as soldiers won't had to burry country's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (imagine russians soldiers dennying russian order to fight agains urkaine and mass-migrating to outher haeaven and then just help on thei own bases ukraine agains those who after all decided to fight against)
He is the one to have higgest understanding of price of peace
Yeah but venom is supposed to replicate BB
Well not replicate. mimic... there is also solid&liquid snakes wich are actual replicas/clones
The plot is just to give BB time to rest after MB got assaluted and well, he goes and at least sugested to actualy make outher haven, wich well... then there is outer heaven uprising
Last edited by Defective Soul; Dec 31, 2024 @ 10:58am
Bansheebutt Dec 31, 2024 @ 1:15pm 
Originally posted by Bejdza:
why do you effectively get punished for killing?

Well, there's a line between being a warfighter and a demon.
You'll only go demon snake if you're really maximizing your kill count at the expense of everything else.

I use lethal loadouts all the time, but I only ever reach stage 2 at worst because I mix things up with non-lethal or avoidant tactics and regularly do "humanitarian" actions like extracting animals and critically-wounded enemies, which can more than reverse the negative karma from lethal actions.

Personally I think No Kills Saint Snake is just as out-of-character as Serial Killer Snake- his understanding of soldiering and how it shapes his worldview was always more complex than that.
Last edited by Bansheebutt; Dec 31, 2024 @ 1:28pm
Defective Soul Dec 31, 2024 @ 2:17pm 
IN addition to Bansheebutt's message
So there is game ... SpecOPS the line
one of things wich you will encounter is a selection about who should die
there is 2 males hanging on rope, if you ignore selection both die, if take too long then both die again, so you had to select, who you will kill, soldier of you own side, or civilian
If you soldier you should pick soldier to kill
if you human you should pick human to kill since soldier is part of you side

The plot is that person, while joining service and becoming an part of army, does understand his militant duty as well as understanding that if war happens that you are the one who enemy will try to kill, it is moraly right to select soldier and execute him over letting civilian die

Yet as menioned you might be more "humane" and since civilian is just an random ♥♥♥♥ while soldier is part of you army, and if i remmeber corectly even some leutenant of you or like it, and you kill civilian you just ,,, acted unproperly in plan of morale, but you acted right in you own definitions

That is the art of SpecOps and gray morale, it not about what is wrong or good, it about both options beeng bad

As we know MGSTPP is unfinished, and .. well... just imagine if instead of regular FOB/MB stuff you will see an visit, an soldier wich you extracted , finaly meets his family, finaly sees his kids and etc...
Yet im MGSTPP there is no real punish for beeng devil
I HAVE LIKE 9 NUKES RIGHT NOW AND PRODUCED ABOUT 20 OF THEM (Antinuke gang hates me IMHO), yes my person covered in blood, but i not even sure if it affects cammo or like it + you can use non-venom to use don't be covered in blood... well... at expence of bionical hand and it's buffs...
Yes i am stripped of hero status
and after all you can just do refygi rescui and just set you demon score to 0, and heroism ain't goes under 0 ....
Defective Soul Dec 31, 2024 @ 2:17pm 
So yes, it not about lethal/non lethal, it about value of life and duty of soliders
Venom Snake is nothing more than an MSF combat medic soldier who loved the real Big Boss so much he'd die for him (and he almost did as he dove in between BB and the second bomb planted inside Paz during the attack on Big Boss' motherbase 9 years ago). So, you're not a clone, or replica, or anything like that. You're not on the same level as Big Boss, you're just a guy that was given plastic surgery while in a coma to match the face of the real Big Boss in the bed beside yours. The wikipedias use all fancy terms, calling Venom a "body double", but it's just fancy speak for "you had plastic surgery to look like him". Since you're just a guy, you don't have the same strength of character as Big Boss, and you're...well...full of Venom over what happened 9 years ago. You get punished for killing people but that's nothing new. "Real" Snakes get punished for killing people, there's an entire boss "fight" in MGS3 (The Sorrow) where every soul you've taken comes back to haunt you. If you've done a no-kill run, The Sorrow fight won't have a single ghost in the level. (except for bosses which you have to kill). You get punished because one of the central points in MGS overall is the value of human life, but you have the choice to do right or wrong, and the game gives you feedback about the choices you're making. The game gives you a demon horn, and you can undo the demon horn by instead valuing human life by saving the children (don't forget to punch them first though!), disarming nukes, etc. Sometimes, life ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sucks for Venom, and he has to deal with a Trolley Problem, where in order to save lives he has to take lives (the outbreak(s) on Motherbase).
Last edited by TwistItAndGo; Jan 1 @ 12:14am
Originally posted by Dawneater:
blablabla_lots_of_lore_text
Question, is paz flashback is a halutionation, or ocelot might actualy find a body/make one to play with Venom's mentals ?
Last edited by Defective Soul; Jan 1 @ 1:50am
Originally posted by Defective Soul:
Blablabla_some_stupid_question

You expect me to answer your question? You must be "halutionating"
Originally posted by Dawneater:
Originally posted by Defective Soul:
Blablabla_some_stupid_question

You expect me to answer your question? You must be "halutionating"
Yes ?
She a part of Venom's psychosis
I SEE YOU LIKE ACTION GAMES WITH DEEP LORE
HAD YOU TRYED WARHAMMER ALREADY ?!
Originally posted by Defective Soul:
I SEE YOU LIKE ACTION GAMES WITH DEEP LORE
HAD YOU TRYED WARHAMMER ALREADY ?!
Sanest Russian WH40K fan:
Originally posted by Bejdza:
Now I played PW and V like 5 years ago but I don't remember instances of BB being evil other than what he did to venom...
If he's supposed to be this big bad guy why do you effectively get punished for killing?
I understand that for solid but for BB not rly
Hell he saved the world in PW

SPOILER

Big Boss is an anti-hero like Snake Plissken from Escape from NY. In fact, BB is heavily modeled off of Snake Plissken both image and story. He's not good or bad. He does bad things to accomplish a greater good that he thinks is good based on his interpretation of the Boss's dream. Remember that the Boss's death and Zero's direction made him salty and made him into the lone "villain" leader he became. If you remember the end of MGS4, he realizes the Boss's dream, makes amends with Solid, kills Zero, and then kills himself by getting Foxdie. At this point Cipher, Patriots, etc. are all dead and gone thanks to the work of Big Boss behind the scenes and of course Solid and his team. Now the world can be at peace. In his last moments he realizes what the Boss wanted and he dies peacefully, but not before asking Solid to find peace for once. Big Boss was doing the right thing hunting Cipher and the Patriots power all along, but he did wrong in the process. Like everyone else in the games, he was highly confused and bitter and that's the whole point of the game, warfare and international politics, the fog of war. Who's right, who's wrong?
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