Why mgsV is heavily flawed...

[ProfessorFrog]

MINOR SPOILERS WARNING.

DISCLAIMER: I'm going to list some aspects that make the game heavily flawed in my opinion. I know how game mechanics work and any assumptions you make about my intelligence, knowledge, ability to play, etc will be reflective of your own inability to accept that someone thinks beyond the norm and might actually have some points that are worth considering. Either agree with me or prove me wrong with logical arguments in a respectful manner. Everything else will be ignored. I'm not here to fling ♥♥♥♥ around.

Singleplayer:
1: Again, you die too quickly. For example the fight with that fireman at devil's house. You have to figure out how to beat him. This takes time. While he's throwing fire at you and there's fire everywhere around you you're bound to get hit. Dying 3 times in a boss fight is lame because it breaks the excitement. Let us re-fight the ♥♥♥♥er on higher difficulties later, but keep the first time encounters a bit mild please. Same with fighting salenthropus. At one point he does this railgun attack. A marker appears on your character, but any type of dodging won't get it off of you. He hits you and it's game over. Like how does the game expect me to know that I have to hide behind a rock or some ♥♥♥♥? Of course I thought up the solution straight after since it isn't that complicated, but the first reaction is to dodge. Especially since it shows a ground marker, which would imply the attack comes from above. Instead of one hit kill attacks why not give the boss AND the player more health, and then remove HP regeneration on the player? This way the fight will still be hard, but will allow some mistakes to be made. Result is that the flow of the battle and immersion isn't broken. Also when that slowmotion effect appears and you have to shoot at kiddie mantis he sometimes appears straight above you instead of in front of you. This again is inconsistant, because you understand the pattern, but some weird situational thing happens where it is out of your control. You're ♥♥♥♥ed over not because you made an error in judgement, but because you are put in a situation where something happens that is unfair to expect a person to deal with when playing the game a first time.

2: Enemies can't see you even if you're right in front of them. This is boring and breaks realism. The same for fulton extractions.

3: Enemies don't call an alarm in through the radio like they did in MGS2 on the ps2, they just shout and everyone is alerted, even if no one is within shouting range. In MGS2 you could even shoot their radio to prevent them from doing so.

4: If an enemy is calling in to say they are going to check something out, then CP doesn't send reinforcements when he doesn't report in. MGS2 also did this.

5: Quiet can shoot your grenades, but you can't do this yourself. Very disappointing.

6: The mission where you have to escort some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ by telling them to wait/go. They just start running themselves when you walk too far off. Sometimes they don't. At one point they were discovered by a guy and would just sit on the ground doing nothing. I couldn't tell them to go, or wait because it did nothing. I had to carry those ♥♥♥♥ers all the way to the chopper, and about halfway there they suddenly started walking again.

7: Cars lose their speed immediately when you jump out of them while driving. This makes it hard to crash them into bases with c4 attached or something similar.

8:


FOB. The game's "multiplayer":
1: HP is too low. Confrontations with another player are over within seconds. It is harder to learn how confrontations with other players work because there is only 2 seconds to do so. From my experience with fighting games I know that it is a lot more fun to have more than 2 seconds of interaction with another player. Because there is more communication. (FYI: Modern game design studies prescribes a low time to kill (TTK) so that newbies can accidently win if a better player makes a small mistake. It is also done to create an emotional response in the player, which often results in anger, or extreme joy. Apparently the element of not feeling in control of your victory or death, makes the game more addictive. This creates a rivalry between players fed by angry emotions instead of ensuring people have a truly good time. This is in every modern game and it is becoming very annoying) Health should be increased by 5x, health regeneration should be removed, and headshots nerfed. This way we might have an exciting boss type battle with another player.

2: There is a lot of trial and error stuff you have to learn to avoid. This means that the first few 100 matches you get ♥♥♥♥ed because of stupid ♥♥♥♥ constantly. ♥♥♥♥ like this:
- Aiming through fences blocks firing.
- Reflex mode triggers and there is no enemy to be seen or they saw me through a little slit in a fence, which is INCONSISTANT WITH THE REST OF THE GAME.
- Snake not disconnecting from leaning against a wall when pushing diagonal directions and pushing directly away from the wall gets you spotted.
- Snake not wanting to climbjump over a fence to another platform and instead hangs from the fence because the button input for that is clumsy.
- Climbing a ladder and there's a mine at the top which will always hit you if you climb that ladder and it is not possible to explode it otherwise because this will break perfect stealth and summon the other player.
- A player is summoned and the first thing he does is run to my spawn spot and shoot me from the helipad. There was no time to react, I just had to lose in this way to learn that I should start running as soon as the match starts.


3: The start and end of a match take too long. Let's say you get killed. You lie there for about 10 seconds before the game decides to start loading, sometimes longer. Then the loading happens. Then showing who won, as if that wasn't already clear. Then you have your money earned/wasted screen, soldiers/resources captured screen, leaderboard screen, then it goes to load again. You are back in the helicopter, so press tab, scroll to FOB missions, find a bunch of players, click one.... "this player is already defending". Cancel out, try another one... "this player is already infiltrating someone". Then you find one that works. It loads for a bit, you select your equips, it loads again. You are in the helicopter on aproach, hear kaz's same stupid speech every time, see snake open the door and sit down. Now you can play. That's a lot of steps. I don't feel like going through these EVERY TIME I MESS UP IN A 2 SECOND CONFRONTATION.

4: Markers are mandatory. I've played up until mission 30 something without using markers. But in FOB not using markers is such a disadvantage I had to turn them on. Everyone else is using them so I guess I have to follow suit.

5: There are no random boxes in FOB like in MGO. This feature would have been perfect for FOB mode. Boxes are now useless.

6: CQC confrontations are a matter of who attacks first. MGS3 had a system during the last boss battle, which would have been a great concept to use in FOB.

7: Apparently you have to mash when knocked unconscious. When using a keyboard it's very hard to wake up. I mash the arrow keys and wasd at the same time, which I figure is quite a smart solution, but it still isn't enough.

8: Rockets are undodgable, the explosion is too big, and they can't be shot out of the air because they are too fast. While you're recovering the other player can shoot you with a rifle until dead. Firing back from the ground is not fast enough. The same goes for shotguns where they can fire 3 times in a row without you being able to get out of it.

[Sticky White Stuff]

None of the things you pointed out are flawed, except for FOBs. They are minor at best. You are just trying to nitpick on small details.
The AI doesn't actually report in or report to CP after checking. They report beforehand that they are going to check the location, CP approves and that's it. The gameplay is different to MGS2.

The enemies can instant alert up to 60m, and see you up to 100m later in the game. So no, they see pretty well when they adapt and when you progress into the game.
There is no realism here, it just how stealth works. If it didn't work like that, the game would be broken. This has nothing to do with the AI itself.

Fulton system exists in real life.

The health system is fine. You are suppose to run around, use dodge and hide behind objects. In an open world game with checkpoints, a health system wouldn't really be that great.
If you didn't notice, they streamlined the game a lot without dumbing it down. This is called great game design.

[ProfessorFrog]

I think they are flaws because the AI is less complex that it was on the ps2. So we are technically going backward. Instead of programming this aspect in the game, they did a reflex mode which was probably cheaper to make. I'm not trying to nitpick, that is your assumption.

There are many instances in the game where enemies do not see you from reasonably close distances. For example, at night, with the appropriate camoflage on.
There are also instances where you could just be any other person, but still they immediately identifiy you as an enemy person. There is no blending in.

My problem with fulton was that enemies also don't see them from medium distances or further. I know they exist and I like the system.
You say a health system wouldn't be that great, but it would be very easy to drop them in using supplies. They did do a great job on streamlining without dumbing it down, but there are many small inconsistancies, that I do not consider great game design. Things that are unreliable in a pinch. Some things are just unpredictable which is what game design should try to avoid. I've described these things in my post above.

[Purger Of Souls]

Jump out of a car, it removes your foot from the gas pedal and it slows down.

[DELTA]

also they stoped with the realistic guns, it wouldent matter if they had mixed real weapons with the fictional ones but no all are fictional

[supertrooper225]

Originally posted by DELTA FORCE:

also they stoped with the realistic guns, it wouldent matter if they had mixed real weapons with the fictional ones but no all are fictional

Easier way to have more guns. There are a lot more weapons to use in this one.

[Sticky White Stuff]

The AI is not less complex. The call-ins have nothing to do with the AI itself. It would have if AIs had any control over it, but they don't. They are forced to say "nothing to report" every X seconds, and they are made to instant report after they have done searching.

Of course they don't see you at night with the camo on hiding in shadows. This is how the stealth works, and it works flawlessly. If it didn't work that way, the game would be straight up broken.
This is not Hitman, they don't check how you look. They just check if they see something suspicious.

Again, if they saw the fulton from up to 60m away, then you couldn't really fulton the enemies at all unless you clear the whole camp. The game wants you to fulton as many people as you can for your Mother Base. In dense areas, fultoning doesn't really work that well.

Supplies cost a lot of money later on. Plus you have to select the drop point and everything. Imagine doing that mid-battle.
It's not like it couldn't work if they tried, but it is easier to have regen HP without going into trouble posting health packs or rations all over the map or specific points.

[hellscream]

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

None of the things you pointed out are flawed, except for FOBs. They are minor at best. You are just trying to nitpick on small details.
The AI doesn't actually report in or report to CP after checking. They report beforehand that they are going to check the location, CP approves and that's it. The gameplay is different to MGS2.

The enemies can instant alert up to 60m, and see you up to 100m later in the game. So no, they see pretty well when they adapt and when you progress into the game.
There is no realism here, it just how stealth works. If it didn't work like that, the game would be broken. This has nothing to do with the AI itself.

Fulton system exists in real life.

The health system is fine. You are suppose to run around, use dodge and hide behind objects. In an open world game with checkpoints, a health system wouldn't really be that great.
If you didn't notice, they streamlined the game a lot without dumbing it down. This is called great game design.

no hes right on AI lol i had AI run past me and not go ! and shoot at me i guess standing still in the middle of the road shooting is ultimate stealth :P

[ProfessorFrog]

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

The AI is not less complex. The call-ins have nothing to do with the AI itself. It would have if AIs had any control over it, but they don't. They are forced to say "nothing to report" every X seconds, and they are made to instant report after they have done searching.

I'm not sure how that proves that the AI is less complex. The AI did something on the ps2 that it doesn't do anymore. Something that I feel the player should feel the conqequences for. If a guy says he's going to check something out, he should report in, just like on the ps2, and if he doesn't then a squad should be sent to check it out. This is the consequence of doing something that the AI calls back home for.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

Of course they don't see you at night with the camo on hiding in shadows. This is how the stealth works, and it works flawlessly. If it didn't work that way, the game would be straight up broken.
This is not Hitman, they don't check how you look. They just check if they see something suspicious.

I wasn't talking about hiding in the shadows. I was talking about night, sneaking suit on, and standing on the road at about 30meters away. I also know this isn't hitman, but when driving your truck through the rocky area besides a checkpoint doesn't get you spotted and driving through it normally does, then the game is inconsistant. This is not logically sound. Before you think up some other circumstance that might justify to you why this happens, my point is: Someone didn't spot me while they should have. It is wrong and I want it fixed.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

Again, if they saw the fulton from up to 60m away, then you couldn't really fulton the enemies at all unless you clear the whole camp. The game wants you to fulton as many people as you can for your Mother Base. In dense areas, fultoning doesn't really work that well.

"Again"? I don't see where you made this point before. I believe you only said fulton exists.
I understand that the game wants to reward you for fulton extractions, but I think enemies should see it better. It's not like the consequences for them seeing it are that bad.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

Supplies cost a lot of money later on. Plus you have to select the drop point and everything. Imagine doing that mid-battle.
It's not like it couldn't work if they tried, but it is easier to have regen HP without going into trouble posting health packs or rations all over the map or specific points.

Then disable supplies in boss battles in favor of the automatic ones you got with salantrhopus. It's perfect for any other situation besides boss battles.

You're clearly trying to tell me why any of my opinions are "not possible" because of made up reasons that could be easily circumvented. You don't agree with my points. That is noted. Thank you for your opinion.

[ProfessorFrog]

Just now in FOB I went to hang from a ledge. I pressed crouch to let go and pressed action to grab the ledge below it like I had done many times before. Only this time when I pressed crouch there was a delay. Not an fps or lag issue. Snake just let go of the ledge later. This meant that when I pressed action it was too early. I fell to my death. Another one of the many things that plague this game.

[(LUX)Dinomaster]

SPOILER WARNING PLZ.

[ProfessorFrog]

Originally posted by Dinomaster:

SPOILER WARNING PLZ.

Whoops. My bad

[Liquor Smurf]

Originally posted by Jikujikujin:

MINOR SPOILERS WARNING.

DISCLAIMER: I'm going to list some aspects that make the game heavily flawed in my opinion. I know how game mechanics work and any assumptions you make about my intelligence, knowledge, ability to play, etc will be reflective of your own inability to accept that someone thinks beyond the norm and might actually have some points that are worth considering. Either agree with me or prove me wrong with logical arguments in a respectful manner. Everything else will be ignored. I'm not here to fling ♥♥♥♥ around.

Singleplayer:
1: Again, you die too quickly. For example the fight with that fireman at devil's house. You have to figure out how to beat him. This takes time. While he's throwing fire at you and there's fire everywhere around you you're bound to get hit. Dying 3 times in a boss fight is lame because it breaks the excitement. Let us re-fight the ♥♥♥♥er on higher difficulties later, but keep the first time encounters a bit mild please. Same with fighting salenthropus. At one point he does this railgun attack. A marker appears on your character, but any type of dodging won't get it off of you. He hits you and it's game over. Like how does the game expect me to know that I have to hide behind a rock or some ♥♥♥♥? Of course I thought up the solution straight after since it isn't that complicated, but the first reaction is to dodge. Especially since it shows a ground marker, which would imply the attack comes from above. Instead of one hit kill attacks why not give the boss AND the player more health, and then remove HP regeneration on the player? This way the fight will still be hard, but will allow some mistakes to be made. Result is that the flow of the battle and immersion isn't broken. Also when that slowmotion effect appears and you have to shoot at kiddie mantis he sometimes appears straight above you instead of in front of you. This again is inconsistant, because you understand the pattern, but some weird situational thing happens where it is out of your control. You're ♥♥♥♥ed over not because you made an error in judgement, but because you are put in a situation where something happens that is unfair to expect a person to deal with when playing the game a first time.

2: Enemies can't see you even if you're right in front of them. This is boring and breaks realism. The same for fulton extractions.

3: Enemies don't call an alarm in through the radio like they did in MGS2 on the ps2, they just shout and everyone is alerted, even if no one is within shouting range. In MGS2 you could even shoot their radio to prevent them from doing so.

4: If an enemy is calling in to say they are going to check something out, then CP doesn't send reinforcements when he doesn't report in. MGS2 also did this.

5: Quiet can shoot your grenades, but you can't do this yourself. Very disappointing.

6: The mission where you have to escort some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ by telling them to wait/go. They just start running themselves when you walk too far off. Sometimes they don't. At one point they were discovered by a guy and would just sit on the ground doing nothing. I couldn't tell them to go, or wait because it did nothing. I had to carry those ♥♥♥♥ers all the way to the chopper, and about halfway there they suddenly started walking again.

7: Cars lose their speed immediately when you jump out of them while driving. This makes it hard to crash them into bases with c4 attached or something similar.

8:


FOB. The game's "multiplayer":
1: HP is too low. Confrontations with another player are over within seconds. It is harder to learn how confrontations with other players work because there is only 2 seconds to do so. From my experience with fighting games I know that it is a lot more fun to have more than 2 seconds of interaction with another player. Because there is more communication. (FYI: Modern game design studies prescribes a low time to kill (TTK) so that newbies can accidently win if a better player makes a small mistake. It is also done to create an emotional response in the player, which often results in anger, or extreme joy. Apparently the element of not feeling in control of your victory or death, makes the game more addictive. This creates a rivalry between players fed by angry emotions instead of ensuring people have a truly good time. This is in every modern game and it is becoming very annoying) Health should be increased by 5x, health regeneration should be removed, and headshots nerfed. This way we might have an exciting boss type battle with another player.

2: There is a lot of trial and error stuff you have to learn to avoid. This means that the first few 100 matches you get ♥♥♥♥ed because of stupid ♥♥♥♥ constantly. ♥♥♥♥ like this:
- Aiming through fences blocks firing.
- Reflex mode triggers and there is no enemy to be seen or they saw me through a little slit in a fence, which is INCONSISTANT WITH THE REST OF THE GAME.
- Snake not disconnecting from leaning against a wall when pushing diagonal directions and pushing directly away from the wall gets you spotted.
- Snake not wanting to climbjump over a fence to another platform and instead hangs from the fence because the button input for that is clumsy.
- Climbing a ladder and there's a mine at the top which will always hit you if you climb that ladder and it is not possible to explode it otherwise because this will break perfect stealth and summon the other player.
- A player is summoned and the first thing he does is run to my spawn spot and shoot me from the helipad. There was no time to react, I just had to lose in this way to learn that I should start running as soon as the match starts.


3: The start and end of a match take too long. Let's say you get killed. You lie there for about 10 seconds before the game decides to start loading, sometimes longer. Then the loading happens. Then showing who won, as if that wasn't already clear. Then you have your money earned/wasted screen, soldiers/resources captured screen, leaderboard screen, then it goes to load again. You are back in the helicopter, so press tab, scroll to FOB missions, find a bunch of players, click one.... "this player is already defending". Cancel out, try another one... "this player is already infiltrating someone". Then you find one that works. It loads for a bit, you select your equips, it loads again. You are in the helicopter on aproach, hear kaz's same stupid speech every time, see snake open the door and sit down. Now you can play. That's a lot of steps. I don't feel like going through these EVERY TIME I MESS UP IN A 2 SECOND CONFRONTATION.

4: Markers are mandatory. I've played up until mission 30 something without using markers. But in FOB not using markers is such a disadvantage I had to turn them on. Everyone else is using them so I guess I have to follow suit.

5: There are no random boxes in FOB like in MGO. This feature would have been perfect for FOB mode. Boxes are now useless.

6: CQC confrontations are a matter of who attacks first. MGS3 had a system during the last boss battle, which would have been a great concept to use in FOB.

7: Apparently you have to mash when knocked unconscious. When using a keyboard it's very hard to wake up. I mash the arrow keys and wasd at the same time, which I figure is quite a smart solution, but it still isn't enough.

8: Rockets are undodgable, the explosion is too big, and they can't be shot out of the air because they are too fast. While you're recovering the other player can shoot you with a rifle until dead. Firing back from the ground is not fast enough. The same goes for shotguns where they can fire 3 times in a row without you being able to get out of it.

......Loki? I thought you already made this thread.

[v00b]

Atleast we all have something to look forward too when the OP makes a game that eclipses this with no flaws at all, 100% perfect game can't wait!

[Sticky White Stuff]

Originally posted by Jikujikujin:

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

The AI is not less complex. The call-ins have nothing to do with the AI itself. It would have if AIs had any control over it, but they don't. They are forced to say "nothing to report" every X seconds, and they are made to instant report after they have done searching.

I'm not sure how that proves that the AI is less complex. The AI did something on the ps2 that it doesn't do anymore. Something that I feel the player should feel the conqequences for. If a guy says he's going to check something out, he should report in, just like on the ps2, and if he doesn't then a squad should be sent to check it out. This is the consequence of doing something that the AI calls back home for.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

Of course they don't see you at night with the camo on hiding in shadows. This is how the stealth works, and it works flawlessly. If it didn't work that way, the game would be straight up broken.
This is not Hitman, they don't check how you look. They just check if they see something suspicious.

I wasn't talking about hiding in the shadows. I was talking about night, sneaking suit on, and standing on the road at about 30meters away. I also know this isn't hitman, but when driving your truck through the rocky area besides a checkpoint doesn't get you spotted and driving through it normally does, then the game is inconsistant. This is not logically sound. Before you think up some other circumstance that might justify to you why this happens, my point is: Someone didn't spot me while they should have. It is wrong and I want it fixed.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

Again, if they saw the fulton from up to 60m away, then you couldn't really fulton the enemies at all unless you clear the whole camp. The game wants you to fulton as many people as you can for your Mother Base. In dense areas, fultoning doesn't really work that well.

"Again"? I don't see where you made this point before. I believe you only said fulton exists.
I understand that the game wants to reward you for fulton extractions, but I think enemies should see it better. It's not like the consequences for them seeing it are that bad.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

Supplies cost a lot of money later on. Plus you have to select the drop point and everything. Imagine doing that mid-battle.
It's not like it couldn't work if they tried, but it is easier to have regen HP without going into trouble posting health packs or rations all over the map or specific points.

Then disable supplies in boss battles in favor of the automatic ones you got with salantrhopus. It's perfect for any other situation besides boss battles.

You're clearly trying to tell me why any of my opinions are "not possible" because of made up reasons that could be easily circumvented. You don't agree with my points. That is noted. Thank you for your opinion.

I said it previously, this isn't a function the AI does. It's a scripted event that happens after you do something. Calling the AI smarter or more complex because of that would be untrue.
That function is also only present in Metal Gear Solid 2.
Since you pointed those minor things out, body damage is also one of the things i miss. But it was a cool little gimmick back when MGS2 was released. Here it isn't necessary because the game is more open and the guards are less personal.

This is how stealth works. It has a hidden camo system. They can't spot you if you crawling right beside them and their vision at night is lowered to a double. It looks silly, but from a gameplay perspective it makes perfect sense. Just because you see at night doesn't actually represent how darkness looks. This is why guards use night vision googles later on and they can actually see you.
How about the line of sight of guards in MGS1 and 2? Wasn't that a bit stupid, even tho it made perfect sense gameplay wise?

Actually the consequences for seeing a fulton is permanent alert. That alone is a big deal if you are trying to stealth and not make them paranoid, which makes them a unpredictable.
You can always tranq everyone. But where is the fun in that? The fulton range is limited to 30m, after that they won't hear nor see anyone. And i think that's fair since you need a lot of people for your MB, and later security team for FOBs.

To be fair i disliked the health system previously, but playing through Ground Zeroes when it was first released made me realise that it makes sense. I could do with rations, no doubt about it. I don't like health regeneration at all. But here the gameplay is just faster, you die faster. So there is no point in using a health system where you would need to health every 3 seconds if they start shooting at you. In MGS3 you were a bullet sponge on E.Extreme. Even in MGS2 the E.Extreme was a joke. The only thing that was hard were the bosses, but those were a horrible design choice on harder difficulty because you had to rely on using cheap tactics.

All of the "flaws" you pointed are design choices. The only possible flaw i can see is the FOB. It's broken and pointless. The defender always wins and there is zero reason to invade anyone, or even try when the defender goes on his home turf. Not only does the game reset but you are stacked against a human opponent and AI. And the defender can respawn.

[ProfessorFrog]

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

I said it previously, this isn't a function the AI does. It's a scripted event that happens after you do something. Calling the AI smarter or more complex because of that would be untrue.
That function is also only present in Metal Gear Solid 2.
Since you pointed those minor things out, body damage is also one of the things i miss. But it was a cool little gimmick back when MGS2 was released. Here it isn't necessary because the game is more open and the guards are less personal.

What it is is not relevant to the topic at hand. It would have been a feature that fits the game nicely. Why are you even trying to prove me wrong on this? It would have been a good feature.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

This is how stealth works. It has a hidden camo system. They can't spot you if you crawling right beside them and their vision at night is lowered to a double. It looks silly, but from a gameplay perspective it makes perfect sense. Just because you see at night doesn't actually represent how darkness looks. This is why guards use night vision googles later on and they can actually see you.
How about the line of sight of guards in MGS1 and 2? Wasn't that a bit stupid, even tho it made perfect sense gameplay wise?

That's another thing. nights are light as hell. You can see everything. It would be really cool if there was more limited visibility. The short view distance in mgs1 and 2 were indeed stupid. MGSV took a step in the right direction regarding realistic stealth while maintaining the series' silly aspects, and I think it's a shame they didn't push it a bit more.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

Actually the consequences for seeing a fulton is permanent alert. That alone is a big deal if you are trying to stealth and not make them paranoid, which makes them a unpredictable.
You can always tranq everyone. But where is the fun in that? The fulton range is limited to 30m, after that they won't hear nor see anyone. And i think that's fair since you need a lot of people for your MB, and later security team for FOBs.

Permanent alert? At most they come to check out what's going on but It's still very possible to go through a base unnoticed afterward.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

To be fair i disliked the health system previously, but playing through Ground Zeroes when it was first released made me realise that it makes sense. I could do with rations, no doubt about it. I don't like health regeneration at all. But here the gameplay is just faster, you die faster. So there is no point in using a health system where you would need to health every 3 seconds if they start shooting at you. In MGS3 you were a bullet sponge on E.Extreme. Even in MGS2 the E.Extreme was a joke. The only thing that was hard were the bosses, but those were a horrible design choice on harder difficulty because you had to rely on using cheap tactics.

That's why I said increase health like it was in older MGS games. It didn't need change. They just wanted to pander to COD kiddies.

Originally posted by DEATH MAGIC:

All of the "flaws" you pointed are design choices. The only possible flaw i can see is the FOB. It's broken and pointless. The defender always wins and there is zero reason to invade anyone, or even try when the defender goes on his home turf. Not only does the game reset but you are stacked against a human opponent and AI. And the defender can respawn.

Some design choices can have a bad influence on the balance of a game. I think the concept of FOB is unbalanced at it's base. It enforces the fact that the infiltrating player has to not get noticed. But not getting noticed is extremely hard when there is another player who basically wins the game if he spots you. Even if he dies. The AI is ridiculously unforgiving. There are many small things that differ from the main game like how far enemies can look. Things that are unreliable to use or count on in a pinch.

But my question is. Instead of trying to prove me wrong on all those points, why didn't you say you agree with me on the FOB thing? higher health in online games has the implicate effect of making certain attacks fair. A lot of unfair online games can be made way more reasonable by increasing health. But apparently during your first few matches losing to exploitable tricks that you can't learn to defend against because of low health is what 90% of players consider fun. I don't. This is a problem with every modern online game. It makes it harder to learn the game, and artificially increases the time people need to play the game to get better.