So is the Big Boss a villain? - Spoilers.

[Kain]

And I mean THE Big Boss, not Venom Snake, I couldn't only play MGS4, because I don't have a PS3, so I'm not sure about him if he's a man with misguided intentions, he was right, he got corrupted like the other members of the Patriots. What are your thoughts, seems like a man that wants a world where soldiers can have a place, which is funny, I would want a World where soldiers are not needed, although it's an impossible goal, also it seems that he wants soldiers who are not bound to a government and this is a huge naive view and certainly an Utopia as well. But I could be wrong, not having played MGIV I might have lost some of his main point of views. What do you guys think?

[joxertm22]

I think old games don't matter.

[[...]]

No

[supertrooper225]

It isn't that black and white. But Big Boss essentially became the thing he hated in this game. He got angry with the world's governments for using soldiers like him and The Boss...and that is what led to MSF, Mother Base and Outer Heaven. Thing is...he used Venom as a body double, changing his face and lying to him about it. It is more than a little hypocritical.

Not to mention Big Boss goes on to stockpile nukes and eventually threaten to launch them. So yea, he is a villain.

[Kain]

Actually, they do, they had a bit of retcon, but they're done to fit on the overall main story line, which is confusing as ♥♥♥♥.

[Bite]

Well, not really. I mean in strict terms he's always working against The Patriots.

There's a lot of debate in Peace Walker about a world where soldiers aren't needed, Big Boss often rafirms his views by claiming that is simply not possible, and while the world will need wars, and soldiers, he seeks to give a home to every soldier in the world.

While doing so, he boosts the war business and pioneers into the private military economy, which, pretty much is something that is out of control in the world right now either way.

The character has enough to be seen as someone who established the base for many things to go wrong, just like Zero, but the character per se didn't really had any wrong or evil intentions throughout the entire series per se.

[Hazy_Maze_Cave]

Yeah it's not black and white. He's definitely a bad guy in the social definition of the word, he's kind of the textbook example of a war criminal or international terrorist. Harboring nuclear weapons. Kidnapping hundreds of people. Murdering hundreds more. Espionage and intel theft. Rare animal trade. Black market weapons. All of this stuff is kind of bad. He's already a demon. There is no single moment where he changes evil because he is evil because of the stuff he does.

Then again he does some good stuff for people too. On tapes Ocelot tell him that people talk of him as a hero. All the stuff that's kind of bad, well the good guys do it to.

That it's open to interpretation is kind of the point Kojima is making with the whole series. Hence the quote at the start of the Truth mission.

"Facts do not exist, there are only interpretations."

[Kain]

I've always seen the Patriots, well, until it was ruled by Zero,as well, kind of good, but with very strict point of views, eventually though they got corrupt, ParaMedic turned into a mad scientist, Zero got power hungry and Donald Anderson was corrupt. Big Boss, well, he distanced himself from the Patriots, but he did became a warlord.

[Kain]

引用自 Adam_Vania：

Yeah it's not black and white. He's definitely a bad guy in the social definition of the word, he's kind of the textbook example of a war criminal or international terrorist. Harboring nuclear weapons. Kidnapping hundreds of people. Murdering hundreds more. Espionage and intel theft. Rare animal trade. Black market weapons. All of this stuff is kind of bad. He's already a demon. There is no single moment where he changes evil because he is evil because of the stuff he does.

Then again he does some good stuff for people too. On tapes Ocelot tell him that people talk of him as a hero. All the stuff that's kind of bad, well the good guys do it to.

That it's open to interpretation is kind of the point Kojima is making with the whole series. Hence the quote at the start of the Truth mission.

"Facts do not exist, there are only interpretations."

True, except that Solid Snake, is shown like a good man and a true hero. Yes, he's a soldier but he's the most honest in his actions. It's like Solid and Liquid are a real split of the good and the bad parts of the Boss's personality.

[Fortus Victus]

all your answers and discussion right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO4Tusk_V2k

[Bite]

引用自 Kain：

引用自 Adam_Vania：

Yeah it's not black and white. He's definitely a bad guy in the social definition of the word, he's kind of the textbook example of a war criminal or international terrorist. Harboring nuclear weapons. Kidnapping hundreds of people. Murdering hundreds more. Espionage and intel theft. Rare animal trade. Black market weapons. All of this stuff is kind of bad. He's already a demon. There is no single moment where he changes evil because he is evil because of the stuff he does.

Then again he does some good stuff for people too. On tapes Ocelot tell him that people talk of him as a hero. All the stuff that's kind of bad, well the good guys do it to.

That it's open to interpretation is kind of the point Kojima is making with the whole series. Hence the quote at the start of the Truth mission.

"Facts do not exist, there are only interpretations."

True, except that Solid Snake, is shown like a good man and a true hero. Yes, he's a soldier but he's the most honest in his actions. It's like Solid and Liquid are a real split of the good and the bad parts of the Boss's personality.

It is generally accepted that Solid is the only one who understood The Boss' will, despite not knowing anything about her or her vision.

[Epic The Incandescent]

引用自 supertrooper225：

It isn't that black and white. But Big Boss essentially became the thing he hated in this game. He got angry with the world's governments for using soldiers like him and The Boss...and that is what led to MSF, Mother Base and Outer Heaven. Thing is...he used Venom as a body double, changing his face and lying to him about it. It is more than a little hypocritical.

Not to mention Big Boss goes on to stockpile nukes and eventually threaten to launch them. So yea, he is a villain.

shhhshhh shhhh spoil man spoil. I know it already but I am sure a few new people will see it and go "wat"

[supertrooper225]

引用自 Kain：

引用自 Adam_Vania：

Yeah it's not black and white. He's definitely a bad guy in the social definition of the word, he's kind of the textbook example of a war criminal or international terrorist. Harboring nuclear weapons. Kidnapping hundreds of people. Murdering hundreds more. Espionage and intel theft. Rare animal trade. Black market weapons. All of this stuff is kind of bad. He's already a demon. There is no single moment where he changes evil because he is evil because of the stuff he does.

Then again he does some good stuff for people too. On tapes Ocelot tell him that people talk of him as a hero. All the stuff that's kind of bad, well the good guys do it to.

That it's open to interpretation is kind of the point Kojima is making with the whole series. Hence the quote at the start of the Truth mission.

"Facts do not exist, there are only interpretations."

True, except that Solid Snake, is shown like a good man and a true hero. Yes, he's a soldier but he's the most honest in his actions. It's like Solid and Liquid are a real split of the good and the bad parts of the Boss's personality.

There is one huge difference between Solid and Biggy Smalls.

Solid fights because he has to.

Big Boss fights because he WANTS to.

Even Solid isn't a goody two shoes hero-type. He actually does a lot of the Patriots work for them...albeit unknowingly. But Solid realizes that he is a killer and that he enjoys war. He tries multiple times to retire but just can't get out.

[supertrooper225]

引用自 Epic The Incandescent：

引用自 supertrooper225：

It isn't that black and white. But Big Boss essentially became the thing he hated in this game. He got angry with the world's governments for using soldiers like him and The Boss...and that is what led to MSF, Mother Base and Outer Heaven. Thing is...he used Venom as a body double, changing his face and lying to him about it. It is more than a little hypocritical.

Not to mention Big Boss goes on to stockpile nukes and eventually threaten to launch them. So yea, he is a villain.

shhhshhh shhhh spoil man spoil. I know it already but I am sure a few new people will see it and go "wat"

I put a spoiler tag.

[Hazy_Maze_Cave]

There is a theory that the whole body double thing is a lie. That Big Boss heard "The medic took some shrapnel to the head." and had a personality split at that moment to justify everything he had to do. The game already has lots about hallucinating and rewriting memories, it is highly possible that we could be playing as Big Boss thinking he is Venom pretending to be Big Boss.

[Kain]

引用自 Epic The Incandescent：

引用自 supertrooper225：

It isn't that black and white. But Big Boss essentially became the thing he hated in this game. He got angry with the world's governments for using soldiers like him and The Boss...and that is what led to MSF, Mother Base and Outer Heaven. Thing is...he used Venom as a body double, changing his face and lying to him about it. It is more than a little hypocritical.

Not to mention Big Boss goes on to stockpile nukes and eventually threaten to launch them. So yea, he is a villain.

shhhshhh shhhh spoil man spoil. I know it already but I am sure a few new people will see it and go "wat"

Well, I did put spoilers in the title.