possible fix for those having sudden in-game crashes, worth investigating

[Lurk]

I finally got around to fixing the continuous in-game crashing I was having randomly after 10 minutes or an hour of gameplay of Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain.
It requires a certain degree of computer-saviness, as it involves BIOS and memory timings knowledge.

I hope this can apply to at least some of those who are experiencing similar issues.

For the life of me I couldn't get over the fact that most people were fully enjoying the game on a multitude of configurations, while I was stuck with a half-working product on my system, unable to play for more than one hour before being kicked back to desktop, all progress lost.

So, It turns out this game is one of the ONLY TWO THAT EVER EXHIBITED SUCH BEHAVIOUR on my PC (the other being Shadow of Mordor, more on this further below).

After crashing in MGSVTPP, I kept checking Event Viewer in my Win7 setup, always finding mgsvttp.exe to be the faulting application, the rest of the log a series of unexplainable numbers referring to, well, memory addresses.

So I begin my test for bad ram and try a reknown memory tester that runs at system boot: www.memtest86.com

The program finds no errors, and I'm left with no answers as to why my favorite game of the moment is simply not working for me.

I decide for one last try, this time resorting to a much more simple and user friendly version of the program which runs in desktop environment: http://hcidesign.com/memtest

After less then 6% completion the program stars finding errors.
I'm inclined not to trust memory testers that run in desktop environment, but a quick search on the web convinces me that this program is indeed reliable.

Before throwing my ram sticks out the window, I go into bios and decide to relax the timings, letting the bios decide what it thinks my RAM should run at for maximum stabilty at the correct frequency, 1866Mhz in my case.

The following is quoted from the datasheets of my two Kingston HyperX 4Gb modules:
"Each module kit has been tested to run at DDR3-1866 at a low latency timing of 9-11-9 at 1.65V."

True, to some extent, since those are exactly the timings at which my modules have always been running as instructed by the datasheet itself, manually set in BIOS when I built my system more than a year ago. They refer, in that order, to CAS Latency, RAS to CAS Delay, Row Precharge Time.

Resorting to BIOS auto detction, I notice it decides to set the same timings as follows: 11-11-11.

And now the magic: at these timings MGSVTPP magically stops crashing, and the desktop environment memory tester runs for one hour reporting 0 (zero) errors.

What do you know, running my RAM sticks for the past year at the datasheet's reportedly tested 9-11-9 timings never caused me problems running all kinds of applications, games included.

Well, except for Shadow of Mordor, lastly played 6 months ago, which I obviously considered an exception. The Steam forums for this game also reported many people with crashes. To me it was an application problem.

With Phantom Pain came a stronger suspect that the cause lied somewhere else, maybe on my system. But WHERE?, since everything else runs flawlessly?
For some reason (graphic engine or program architecture?) both Shadow of Mordor and Phantom Pain use - or address - memory in such a way that is prone to trigger errors IF memory runs at tighter timings EVEN THOUGH, such as in my case, said timings are those at which the memory is tested to run at.

And here comes the main and most delicate point, which makes sense of all this long post I hope you had the time patience to read, and that is the difficulty of finding the culprit when there is seemingly nothing wrong or uncorrectly set on your system!

You can all understand why developers cannot possibly keep track of such a variable due to the millions of system configurations out there.

It is also clear that this is something that the average user could entirely miss or not be aware of alltogether, provided not anyone has the time or patience to investigate, which probably brings many of those that cannot play the game to abandon it out of pure frustration.

My conclusion is: if you have unexplainable sudden in-game crashes (or in any other application, for that matter) check your memory timings.
In my case it totally cured my problem and I am now able to play the game and fully enjoy it, provided I'm aware of a number of less severe bugs which can hinder the experience for many and maybe even myself as I progress in the game, the difference being that now I can REALLY progress!

The web has many resources for the less computer-savy on how to enter your motherboard BIOS and manage memory timings.

I sincerely hope my experience can help at least one of you.
It will have made the effort of writing this post worthwhile : )

[Crunkmaster Joe]

Lurk, I think I might be experiencing similar crashes to what you experienced. They began around the time you made this post, and like you stated, they were 'sudden.' I had already logged dozens of hours into MGS5 before seeing the issue arise.

To confirm, did you ever check Event Viewer and find that the mgsvtpp.exe errors were related to the ddumd.dll module?

Also, when running MemTest, how many instances did you run to find the errors? Did you pay for the pro version?

Lastly, I don't know much about appropriate memory timings. Any suggestions about where I can look for appropriate timings?

[Poi]

Hey Lurk! Just wanted to confirm I had the same issue. I checked my ram timing in the BIOS and reset them back to default. My game started working again. You are my hero!

[Crunkmaster Joe]

Originally posted by Poi:

Hey Lurk! Just wanted to confirm I had the same issue. I checked my ram timing in the BIOS and reset them back to default. My game started working again. You are my hero!

Poi, did you check Event Viewer to find if the crashes were somehow related to ddumd.dll?

Lurk, I checked my memory timings, and they are all set to auto. Not sure what could be causing the issue if they're set to the motherboard's suggestion.

I did try changing them from 9-9-9-24 to 9-12-12-30, but I encountered the same crash. Admittedly, I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to memory timing.

[Poi]

Originally posted by Crunkmaster Joe:

Originally posted by Poi:

Hey Lurk! Just wanted to confirm I had the same issue. I checked my ram timing in the BIOS and reset them back to default. My game started working again. You are my hero!

Poi, did you check Event Viewer to find if the crashes were somehow related to ddumd.dll?

Negative. I didn't check at first but I knew what Lurk was talking about when it comes to mem timing. Its most likely due to me playing around wit different overclocking speeds. I just reset it back to default. Most BIOS has a F10 to reset to default, do that and that might help.

[Lurk]

Originally posted by Crunkmaster Joe:

Lurk, I think I might be experiencing similar crashes to what you experienced. They began around the time you made this post, and like you stated, they were 'sudden.' I had already logged dozens of hours into MGS5 before seeing the issue arise.

To confirm, did you ever check Event Viewer and find that the mgsvtpp.exe errors were related to the ddumd.dll module?

Also, when running MemTest, how many instances did you run to find the errors? Did you pay for the pro version?

Lastly, I don't know much about appropriate memory timings. Any suggestions about where I can look for appropriate timings?

I never had mgsvtpp.exe errors relating to the module you are referring to. Did you check on the web to see what application/driver uses ddumd.dll?

I don't have the Pro version of MemTest, as the free version basically works the same + some limits which should not hinder testing. I ran three instances, each analyzing 2047Gb of free memory (I have 8Gb installed in my system) as suggested by the program itself. With tighter timings, memory would fail read/writes at approximately 6%. With relaxed timings the test ran for one houre reaching 60% with absolutely no errors.
If the program finds errors, you are likely to have either faulty RAM or you are running with excessively low latencies.

In my post I mention CAS Latency, RAS to CAS Delay, Row Precharge Time. These are the timings you should look for in your BIOS, as they are the most important for memory stability/ performance. Are you able to enter BIOS at system boot, i.e. do you know how it's done?
Also, what type of RAM do you have? It might help in order to set the correct timings.
Your CAS Latency (the first 9 in your settings) might still be too low. Try relaxing it to 12 as well, then you can work your way down. I went from 9-11-9 with MGS crashing to 11-11-11, but was still able to lower the timings to 9-10-10 without getting any crashes, neither in-game nor in MemTest.

It might require some fiddling around, provided OBVIOUSLY that your ingame crashes are indeed caused by RAM timings.

Another word of advice: depending on your motherboard and RAM, default BIOS settings WILL NOT NECESSARILY set your RAM to its correct factory timings. In my case, I had to pick a specific profile available in my BIOS for 1866Mhz RAM, by setting a specific option that lets the user choose among a set of frequencies.

This is to say that, depending on your system, setting the right timings for your RAM might not be straightforward.

One thing is certain, MGSVTPP is obviously VERY sensible to shifts in RAM timings, something that in my experience is not that common with games.

I'm happy I could help some of you, please do report your findings as we might have a point for some of those who can't play the game without crashes.

[Crunkmaster Joe]

Thanks Lurk. I made a PSA post but it got buried pretty quickly.

Turns out that the DLL, ddumd.dll, is signed by OSBASE, which makes some kind of middleware called iDisplay that lets USB displays work with PCs. Just so happens that I had installed Duet Display on my PC a few weeks back (lets you use your iPad as a second display via USB).

Uninstalling Duet Display and Kairos Display (which installed alongside Duet) seemed to resolve the issue, and remove the DLL (which i couldn't do for some reason). So, thankfully no need for me to change my memory timings.

I've reached out to Kairos, the company that makes Duet Display, and I'll let them know my findings. I have a support ticket open with Konami as well, and as soon as they respond I'll let them know what happened.

For now, the tl;dr is that Duet Display is likely going to cause crashes for anyone playing MGS5 on PC.

[Lurk]

Excellent! Glad you were able to solve it!

This just confirms me how mgsvttp needs a next to perfect environment in order to run smoothly.
For those having doubts with stuff running un the background, I highly suggest to run Autoruns.exe from reknown Microsoft Sysinternals:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902

It goes deep into detail telling you what runs on your system automatically.
You'll most likely find out there is stuff you don't need and thought disabled.

[Cousamis Gr]

I have listen many of you with problem when you play steam or many other games with DDR3 1866 and application crash. Is not problem of the application or VGA drivers or any other equipment you connect to your pc. Download any program that can helps to find out your memories latency and go to your motherboard BIOS and pass manually all latencies of your memory and don't forget as well to pass manually the VOLTAGE of your memories. If you set your BIOS to auto reading your memories for sure will fall from 1866 to 1600. I downloaded AIDA64 and found out all the latencies that my memories have as well the most important the VOLTAGE of my memories when they are active on 1866 volt. This is all. Stop crashes and steam games play perfect. (Don't forget to pass all the latencies that your motherboard refers. Not only the 9-9-9-10-9 BUT ALL that AIDA64 gives you under each memory frequency. BEFORE YOU QUIT BIOS CHECK MEMORIES VOLTAGE TO BE AT CORRECT VOLT!!!!!!!! VERY IMPORTANT. MINE WAS AT 1.65V 1866

[ædre]

Jesus Christ.