Spoilers... In the end

[Joystick Man]

In the end Big Boss betrays Venom Snake.

If you look the tape, says "operation intrude n313".... The mission when Solid Snake kills Venom Snake.

If you hear at the beggining, there is a lot of shots, Venom in blood. I think that was the last moments of Venom, before getting killed by Solid Snake. Thats the moment he realised he is a fake, and that Venom Snake betrayed him. That's why he hit the mirror and gets angry.

Big Boss sent Solid to kill Venom... Why? Because Miller was training Venom to fight Big Boss? But at the same time Miller was training Snake too.

I said something wrong? Why Big Boss betrayed Venom? Outer Heaven messed up his plans? He was too dangerous? Why didn't he tried to ally Venom? Or he knew Venom would ♥♥♥♥ off and try to atack him? What are you thinking guys?

Big Boss knew solid, taught him CQC and knew his potential. So this is the moment when you think Big Boss became bad. He betrayed his own soldier, his best friend, his best soldier, his phantom, who saved his life. He went bad the moment he used his best soldier, the medic. That's the moment when Snake stop caring about his soldiers, he would do anything to become his vision of the Boss true.

The hit Skullface gave him was too violent for him to stay the same.

[???]

He always knew he was a fake. Big Boss didn't think Solid would survive the outer haven mission.

[Joystick Man]

Why you said that? He remembered in the final cutscene. And if you look the tape is "intrude n313". That means operation when Solid kills Big Boss. He never knew until then. Rewatch the cutscene. I just noticed this. And I felt amazing.

[BvB1]

He didn't betray him.

[BvB1]

Venom was always supposed to be a double standing in for Big Boss so he could do more things to further his agenda. The fact that Solid kills Venom is not betrayal on BB's part..

[BvB1]

If anything, Big Boss probably expected "Big Boss" to kill this Solid guy.

[V, The Eldritch Hermitess]

The lines by the real Big Boss were a memory, what happens is it starts off at the current time with Big Boss giving the reveal to Venom (you). Then, it flashes forward to Operation Intrude N313, shown by the Outer Heaven logo in the background of the mirrior. Venom gives a smirk as he remembers Big Boss' words from the past, then breaks the mirrior because he is angry, like Big Boss, Venom thought Solid would have been dead already. Instead, Solid got through just fine, slaughtered the base etc, so Venom was ticked off and went out to confront Solid himself.

[Joystick Man]

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure that Venom remember everything when listening to "intrude N313", then he remember everything. There is some proof? I mean, its clearly listening the tape then remembering, and then getting angry.Gonna watch the cutscene again...

Nope, he looks at the mirror, then listen the tape "Now do you remember?", then gets angry. If Big Boss wanted Solid death he would have killed him.... He was the commander of Fox Hound, he could easily kill him and then hide his body =/.

[Jakobb1]

Messaggio originale di Snake:

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure that Venom remember everything when listening to "intrude N313", then he remember everything. There is some proof? I mean, its clearly listening the tape then remembering, and then getting angry.Gonna watch the cutscene again...

Nope, he looks at the mirror, then listen the tape "Now do you remember?", then gets angry. If Big Boss wanted Solid death he would have killed him.... He was the commander of Fox Hound, he could easily kill him and then hide his body =/.

Snake you aren't looking at this correctly... if he killed Solid it would be too obvious that someone from the inside killed him and besides, Big Boss doesn't wanna kill his own son. He wanted him to fail his mission but he urged him multiple times to abort the mission. The mirror scene starts with the current year 1984 and then it flashes forward to Outer Heaven when Solid has breached his defenses. Venom remembers the words that Big Boss told him all those years ago and he is angry that Solid made it this far, as is Big Boss.

[Hazy_Maze_Cave]

There is an actual MSX system in that scene, which makes the whole thing weird. Is it metaphorical? Often during the game I wondered if things are really happening or if they are simply symbolic and for artistic effect.

Also the Diamond Dogs logo is behind Venom when he is in that room, with the tape. When he shatters the mirror it changes to say Outer Heaven. Does this mean time has shifted during this cut? Or is this, again, symbolic?

We know Venom is hallucinating things throughout the game. Also the Truth mission begins with

"Facts do not exist, there are only interpretations."

So maybe it is symbolic and nothing more. Especially given Chapter 2's emphasis on 1984 references, with BIG BOSS IS WATCHING YOU posted at the base. In that book the Ministry of Truth was responsible for making up lies.

[Hazy_Maze_Cave]

I really think I am going to play through the entire game again, to see it all again with fresh eyes, knowing what I know now. I bet there are clues and things littered all throughout that I missed the first time around.

[Joystick Man]

This is Metal Gear, and Big Boss is a legendary soldier, and a spy, im pretty sure he could kill Solid under his command and be ok.

I watched the cutscene again.... He watchs himselft at the mirror, and remembers. Thats why he looks with the DD uniform. The he listen the tape and gets mad. Watch the cutscene on youtube. The consensus is what you are saying... but... watch the cutscene again and think about it..

[Jakobb1]

Messaggio originale di Adam_Vania:

I really think I am going to play through the entire game again, to see it all again with fresh eyes, knowing what I know now. I bet there are clues and things littered all throughout that I missed the first time around.

Eh, the emblems changing are literal, they are supposed to represent when Venom first listened to the tape and when was remembering it later in Outer Heaven.

[Bite]

Man, why would Big Boss send a tape detailing an assassination attempt to the man he is trying to assassinate?

Add to that, that Big Boss himself is the one that drives Solid into traps and gas chambers. He sent a rookie in that mission to stall the NATO bombings and earn time for Venom to finish Metal Gear.

Venom isn't mad at the revelation of himself, he's happy, he smiles, and when he punches the mirror it feels more his determination to carry on. They really don't come across as enemies as their motivations and their MO are virtually the same in MG and MG2.

[Joystick Man]

Messaggio originale di Fw.Jakobb1|6th|:

Messaggio originale di Adam_Vania:

I really think I am going to play through the entire game again, to see it all again with fresh eyes, knowing what I know now. I bet there are clues and things littered all throughout that I missed the first time around.

Eh, the emblems changing are literal, they are supposed to represent when Venom first listened to the tape and when was remembering it later in Outer Heaven.

Or maybe he was remembering himself, that's why he is showed with DD uniform, and then the tape "now do you remember?". There is never a time change... just watch the cutscene again.

Messaggio originale di Bite:

Man, why would Big Boss send a tape detailing an assassination attempt to the man he is trying to assassinate?

Add to that, that Big Boss himself is the one that drives Solid into traps and gas chambers. He sent a rookie in that mission to stall the NATO bombings and earn time for Venom to finish Metal Gear.

Venom isn't mad at the revelation of himself, he's happy, he smiles, and when he punches the mirror it feels more his determination to carry on. They really don't come across as enemies as their motivations and their MO are virtually the same in MG and MG2.

That make sense, I started playing Metal Gear with Metal Gear Solid... I tried to play the older ones on Snes Emulator but I really didn't like them.... If Big Boss send Snake to traps, then it's pretty obvious he doesn't want Venom killed.

[Bite]

Messaggio originale di Snake:

Messaggio originale di Fw.Jakobb1|6th|:

Eh, the emblems changing are literal, they are supposed to represent when Venom first listened to the tape and when was remembering it later in Outer Heaven.

Or maybe he was remembering himself, that's why he is showed with DD uniform, and then the tape "now do you remember?". There is never a time change... just watch the cutscene again.

There is a time change. The reveal is done in 1984. then the tape flip forwards time 10 years. Hence Venom's horn, it's implied he did a lot of wrongs in those 10 years. There's also the Outer Heaven logo replacing the DD logo in the mirror.