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METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN

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Visuwyg Sep 17, 2015 @ 11:49am
Looking back at MGS4 and Peace Walker...
For MGSV, I expected MGS4s grandiose scope and cutscenes, married with Peace Walkers gameplay structure.

I am currently replaying Peace Walker and rewatching a playthrough of MGS4 on Youtube -

MGSV doesn't hold a candle to those games.

The drop in quality is baffling to me. I guess the gameplay is alright, but nothing special these days. The open world doesn't contribute anything but longer travel times. And the story and cutscenes are just scratching at the bare minimum. What happened to the amazing character scenes from past games? The emotional pathos of MGS4? The amazing cold war story of Peace Walker?

Kojima really phoned this one in. What a shame that this is the last (real) Metal Gear.


P.s.: Even Yoji Shinkawa wasn't at the top of his game, in my opinion. The skulls and the Metal Gear (which the name I can't be bothered to look up right now) were really bland, recycled designs. Don't get me started on "Skullface". *sigh* This guy invented Metal Gear Ray and Cyborg Raiden!
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Showing 1-15 of 124 comments
supertrooper225 Sep 17, 2015 @ 11:51am 
They have made it known for months that they were addressing the criticism of cutscene overload. There was barely any actual game in MGS4. The gameplay here is better than it has ever been in Metal Gear.
#1
Visuwyg Sep 17, 2015 @ 11:55am 
That's true. I guess now there are way too little cutscenes for me! And what little plot there was, was half-baked, lacking (plotlines going nowhere) or plain appalling (torture without context).

Last edited by Visuwyg; Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:00pm
#2
Archammer555 Sep 17, 2015 @ 11:55am 
MGSV is good but its a game of compromise. The tight story focus has to fight it out with the open world messing about the game encourages. Strong cutscenes were moved into audio logs and the core of the game built off the Peace Walker model, for better and worse in some cases. Also the disjoined pace of the story didn't make for good boss battles so that was balanced out with having more gadgets and weapons to play with, most are useless but there is some good ones in there. The plot took a back seat in this one and that is pretty obvious and yeah I agree with the character design, pretty tame when compared to some of the insane stuff MGS has brought is in the past.
#3
supertrooper225 Sep 17, 2015 @ 11:57am 
Originally posted by Kaffeebohnson:
That's true. I guess now there are way too little cutscenes for me! And what little plot there was, was half-baked, lacking (plotlines going nowhere) or plain appalling (torture without context).

I disagree. I thought a certain point was cool (the Venom plot point), the virus subplot I didnt' like much, torture is supposed to appall you.
#4
Visuwyg Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:00pm 
I recommend taking a look back at MGS4, specifically. I am amazed how good it still looks for a game released in 2008! Add some more color, and some newfangled realtime lighting, and it looks just as well as MGSV - 7 years later!

I got completely sucked back into its world. And I am only watching it on youtube! Scenes like the nervous awkwardness between Otacon and Naomi... Sunny and her eggs, Snake dealing with the end of his life... it is a weirdly humanistic, completely bonkers masterpiece.

MGSV just lacks that kind of love, I realize now.
Last edited by Visuwyg; Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:02pm
#5
supertrooper225 Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:03pm 
Originally posted by Kaffeebohnson:
I recommend taking a look back at MGS4, specifically. I am amazed how good it still looks for a game released in 2008! Add some more color, and some newfangled realtime lighting, and it looks just as well as MGSV - 7 years later!

I got completely sucked back into its world. And I am only watching it on youtube! Scenes like the nervous awkwardness between Otacon and Naomi... Sunny and her eggs, Snake and his cigaretts... it is a weirdly humanistic, completely bonkers masterpiece.

MGSV just lacks that kind of love, I realize now.

It really doesn't. A plot is a plot. Gameplay is a game. And that is much....much better here.
#6
Blackwolfpt Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:09pm 
Sadly I have to agree, the overall story feels very watered down compared to previous titles and the open world is to blame.

Most missions feel generic, there are few memorable characters and Snake rarely speaks which makes me confused about the whole argument about bringing Keifer Sutherland for the mocap, as Venom has the same neutral expression throughout the entire game minus for a couple of scenes. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the game, but for me it's the weakest metal gear solid by far.
Last edited by Blackwolfpt; Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:10pm
#7
Greb Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:12pm 
I was suprised how much gameplay Peace Walker provided. I didn't think much of it when it was bundled in with the HD collection myself, I played it last after sucking MGS2 and MGS3 dry.

It sucked me dry, instead. If it had come with bigger areas, some more dialogue for soldiers on the field and maybe better matchmaking it would of been stellar. One thing I notice MGS tends to fail on is the abilities of its main character. They have some moves, but not enough to be considered amazing. Especially so in MGSV...you can sprint...you can dive...you can press your face into the dirt to hide better. Sometimes you'll get in cover. You can vault over things and occassionally hop over gaps. Hanging is there...but hardly used.

It wasn't even the co-op that did it for me since I didn't hit that part until after I'd basically cleared the game. It just had the right mixture of stuff. A lot of the stuff you developed was worthless, admittedly, but there were plenty of secrets and rewards for your efforts along the way. Bandana reward possibly being the most groundbreaking and difficult to achieve, but once you had it the game changed dramatically. I know some people hate Peace Walker for the padding out of BTR/Tank/Helicopter battles, but it never bothered me. The music was cool.

Blah blah blah. I'm not good at...this sort of thing.

Metal Gear Solid 4 as everyone knows was an interactive movie. Was pretty well designed from a gameplay perspective...but it was linear and after Act 2, the game collapses inwards on itself. Even the Shadow Moses return failed because it literally WAS an interactive movie, where you just moved through nostalgia with little in the way of interaction. A gekko here, some stupid balls with hands there. Hey though, at least they had boss fights, right?
Last edited by Greb; Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:14pm
#8
Alpacalypse Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:16pm 
If MGS5 was MGS4, I never would've bought it. As a newcomer to the series, I want something that you don't need to play every other ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game to understand. MGS5 offered just that; A thin story that serves the gameplay, and not vice versa. If your game only has gameplay to serve the story, you're playing a broke-ass mess of a game. MGS5 was Far Cry 4: Desert Edition, and I love it for being that.
#9
Bansheebutt Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:24pm 
Major spoiler:

Tbh, The whole revelation about Venom's Identity as a brainwashed body double really soured the whole thing. Since MGSV didn't do much of anything to develop BB/Venom's character, all my feelings for him were related to his past and future. The things BB did.

Since Venom isn't actually BB, I just don't have any feelings for him at all because MGSV certainly didn't offer any reasons to become attached to him.

Venom is just an avatar in every sense of the word. Kudos to Kojima for making something *that* meta, but it really sullied the whole story for me.
Last edited by Bansheebutt; Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:25pm
#10
supertrooper225 Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:27pm 
Originally posted by fib:
Major spoiler:

Tbh, The whole revelation about Venom's Identity as a brainwashed body double really soured the whole thing. Since MGSV didn't do much of anything to develop BB/Venom's character, all my feelings for him were related to his past and future. The things BB did.

Since Venom isn't actually BB, I just don't have any feelings for him at all because MGSV certainly didn't offer any reasons to become attached to him.

Venom is just an avatar in every sense of the word. Kudos to Kojima for making something *that* meta, but it really sullied the whole story for me.

You just gotta let it settle man. Everyone felt the same about MGS2 and that was much....much worse. And it is still regarded as a classic.
#11
Bansheebutt Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:28pm 
But I actually liked Raiden and never had a problem with him. For one, he actually had some character development.

Venom is just....a really meta representation of the player. Which is cool in its own right, but still.
Last edited by Bansheebutt; Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:29pm
#12
sameoldstranger Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:29pm 
Originally posted by Kaffeebohnson:
For MGSV, I expected MGS4s grandiose scope and cutscenes, married with Peace Walkers gameplay structure.

I am currently replaying Peace Walker and rewatching a playthrough of MGS4 on Youtube -

MGSV doesn't hold a candle to those games.

The drop in quality is baffling to me. I guess the gameplay is alright, but nothing special these days. The open world doesn't contribute anything but longer travel times. And the story and cutscenes are just scratching at the bare minimum. What happened to the amazing character scenes from past games? The emotional pathos of MGS4? The amazing cold war story of Peace Walker?

Kojima really phoned this one in. What a shame that this is the last (real) Metal Gear.


P.s.: Even Yoji Shinkawa wasn't at the top of his game, in my opinion. The skulls and the Metal Gear (which the name I can't be bothered to look up right now) were really bland, recycled designs. Don't get me started on "Skullface". *sigh* This guy invented Metal Gear Ray and Cyborg Raiden!
doesnt have the same scope?
tell me you werent like "Oh ♥♥♥♥" hell bound,
or even some map stretching missions.
also mentioning emotional pathos in mgs4?
are you on GLUE?
yeah,
i was almost brought to tears when my weapons dealer did magic tricks with a bald monkey.
so emotional and deep.
or every 5 feet was a cutscene (one where a guy ♥♥♥♥♥ himself)
it really was an emotional masterpiece.
or a slow motion shoot out marriage proposal from the guy who ♥♥♥♥ himself.
that moment really got my heart.
emotional pathos, obviously you havent played mgs4.
but when you do,
tell me when you find it.
#13
Nobody Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:32pm 
i have it said it before and i'll say it again,this is the worst and most laziest MGS to date.
if we are gonna get games like this then am glad Kojima is done
4 was the final good game for me
Last edited by Nobody; Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:32pm
#14
Archammer555 Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:33pm 
Originally posted by supertrooper225:
Originally posted by fib:
Major spoiler:

Tbh, The whole revelation about Venom's Identity as a brainwashed body double really soured the whole thing. Since MGSV didn't do much of anything to develop BB/Venom's character, all my feelings for him were related to his past and future. The things BB did.

Since Venom isn't actually BB, I just don't have any feelings for him at all because MGSV certainly didn't offer any reasons to become attached to him.

Venom is just an avatar in every sense of the word. Kudos to Kojima for making something *that* meta, but it really sullied the whole story for me.

You just gotta let it settle man. Everyone felt the same about MGS2 and that was much....much worse. And it is still regarded as a classic.

The difference being they actualy acknowlaged Raiden as a different character, if Raiden was wearing a Solid Snake mask througout the entire game and mimicing all of snakes action and pulled off the mask at the end saying TA DA I'M RAIDEN people would be who the ♥♥♥ is raiden. In the same way I said who the ♥♥♥ is Medic no. 256 of the people I abducted in peace Walker. Just no emotion to be shocked or moved by the reveal because we know nothing about the person who became the Phantom Boss.
Last edited by Archammer555; Sep 17, 2015 @ 12:34pm
#15
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Date Posted: Sep 17, 2015 @ 11:49am
Posts: 124

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