CQC in LORE vs IN GAME

[Zelarion]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the Lore empbhasizes how badass snake is in CQC, and how he's basically the ultimate skilled fighter due to his super CQC skills... but when I play the game, cqc seems hardly emphasized, hardly any creativity put into cqc, and just really boring all together in regards to mellee combat...

It seems like the Lore would have been better off emphasizing the Stealth prowess of Big Boss since that's the main mechanics of the game... I have not played Phantom Pain yet, but just finished Ground Zeroes, and will be playing Phantom Pain today...

I really like things to stay in line with the Lore... It's kinda like playing a Spiderman game, without the spiderman abiltiies...

The game is centered on stealth... and has much gameplay mechanics that grow around that concept... sight, sound, smell... detection systems etc. Yet there is hardly any CQC diversity, and it gets boring FAST...

Having the ability to grab an enemy, and smash them to the floor, or putting them in a choke hold HARDLY requires any mention of skill other than being REALY STRONG, and some basic Judo Moves.........


yea the lore and the gameplay in regards to ability... just doesn't sit well with me, maybe its just ground zeroes... maybe phantom pain is diff?

So yea, seems to be just a dude who can crouch for long periods of time, take bullets and heal like wolverine... and ummm body slam a mutha flucker like its WWF...

[OrkDork]

The CQC is based off of real martial arts moves like judo throws and disarms etc. so it's not gonna be as flashy as a game like god of warr which is wholly unrealistic in comparison, I mean none of these guys snakes fighting are even close to him when it comes to cqc you can see that during many cutscenes throughout TPP and in the gameplay.

I'll tell you what though they did add the prone swipe which looks silly but is effective but my new favorite move is when a soldier tries to use their knife on you and you cqc at the right time you do this really sick knife disarm and knock them out. Like everyones been saying though this isn't a batman game you're not gonna have an extensive list of combos or anything CQC is meant to be an ammo-efficient way to take down enemies both silently and quickly. Not an extravagant show of snakes prowess at CQC.

[Ja'Crispy]

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

I tend to like to read lore, and see some resemblance of it in game... especially when they emphasized it...

So because he can't do 100 different moves and combinations, he can't be a master of CQC? That's not how it works. He's the best because of the speed and efficiency he has in disarming and incapacitating enemies, and the fact that there are few, if any, people in the world that can best him at it. It's made to work, not made to look cool.

[Zelarion]

Автор сообщения: WirelessPillow

He is the master of real world CQC, as in stuff that actually works in real life. Not fancy martial combos designed to look cool, but quick and effective moves that removes the opponents ability to fight as soon as possible.

All the other games you posted are either in worlds with magic, or in worlds with super heroes where its all about looking good when doing things (from a gameplay perspective), while MGS is all about being effective not cool looking.

In other words he isn't supposed to do magic long term attacks because it keeps him in a 1 on 1 fight way to long, any engagement with an enemy that lasts more than 1 second is too long.

And being shot at in the head 10 times and still alive is realistic...

Cognitive disonance I sense dudes...

Why can't you guys just admit you're dissapoiinted with the cqc and be done with it?

Instead of trying to give some lame excuse.

It just shows me how much it hurts you too the fact you're actually defending it.

Let's get this straight, this is a fantastic game, which has much gameplay joy to offer, but this revolves around a lesser mentioned skill in the Lore, it's called STEALTH...

I mean, they killed my main bro Sam off of this bullshat emphasis on this CQC jazz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrvEWWYLDHM

[Zelarion]

Автор сообщения: Butt Stallion <3

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

I tend to like to read lore, and see some resemblance of it in game... especially when they emphasized it...

So because he can't do 100 different moves and combinations, he can't be a master of CQC? That's not how it works. He's the best because of the speed and efficiency he has in disarming and incapacitating enemies, and the fact that there are few, if any, people in the world that can best him at it.

Right, less = More .... cough guns cough cough

[xBLEVx]

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

Автор сообщения: Ashman-UK

ive seen at least 7 different cqc animations so far, far more than mgs3 or 4 had,
Choking
Body slam in about 2 or 3 dif ways
Slamming them against walls
running punch
5 punch combo
Knife disarm
prone swipe

I'll consolidate that for you

A body slam to the ground or wall............yea.... wow

punching someone mutliple times like a lunatic....

disarming some weps (like he didn't have enough weps already...)

actually on the punching like a lunatic part notice how smart he is about where he throws those punches. snakes know well how to disable the opponent before going for the knockout blow, which tells me he is very smart about cqc. he disables the legs and feet (edit: arms) before going in for the knockout. still, as other said, what more could you want? there are more than enough cqc animations for a game that also has guns.

3 hit takedown from behind
5 hit takedown from front
body slam
throw (also hit takedowns ending in throws)
pull from ladder
grab over cover
grab around cover and toss into wall
grab and hold
bionic arm moves
prone swipe
dive into enemy
throw enemy into other enemy
multiple body slams in one quick move

might be more, but that is some pretty good variety imo

[Zelarion]

Автор сообщения: InfiltratorN7

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

I'll consolidate that for you

A body slam to the ground or wall............yea.... wow

punching someone mutliple times like a lunatic....

disarming some weps (like he didn't have enough weps already...)

actually on the punching like a lunatic part notice how smart he is about where he throws those punches. snakes know well how to disable the opponent before going for the knockout blow, which tells me he is very smart about cqc. he disables the legs and feet before going in for the knockout. still, as other said, what more could you want? there are more than enough cqc animations for a game that also has guns.

3 hit takedown from behind
5 hit takedown from front
body slam
throw (also hit takedowns ending in throws)
pull from ladder
grab over cover
grab around cover and toss into wall
grab and hold
bionic arm moves
prone swipe
dive into enemy
throw enemy into other enemy
multiple body slams in one quick move

might be more, but that is some pretty good variety imo

Right, and he can get shot in the face and still stay alive if you escape... yea this game is all about realism...

[Pendosa Ringan]

Dude you can do it while fighting Eli or Counter attacking the Skulls.
*edit: yes as far as I play the game, there is only those same technique with a slight different animations.

[WirelessPillow]

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

Автор сообщения: WirelessPillow

He is the master of real world CQC, as in stuff that actually works in real life. Not fancy martial combos designed to look cool, but quick and effective moves that removes the opponents ability to fight as soon as possible.

All the other games you posted are either in worlds with magic, or in worlds with super heroes where its all about looking good when doing things (from a gameplay perspective), while MGS is all about being effective not cool looking.

In other words he isn't supposed to do magic long term attacks because it keeps him in a 1 on 1 fight way to long, any engagement with an enemy that lasts more than 1 second is too long.

And being shot at in the head 10 times and still alive is realistic...

Cognitive disonance I sense dudes...

Why can't you guys just admit you're dissapoiinted with the cqc and be done with it?

Instead of trying to give some lame excuse.

It just shows me how much it hurts you too the fact you're actually defending it.

Let's get this straight, this is a fantastic game, which has much gameplay joy to offer, but this revolves around a lesser mentioned skill in the Lore, it's called STEALTH...

I mean, they killed my main bro Sam off of this bullshat emphasis on this CQC jazz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrvEWWYLDHM

I never mentioned realism, just what the CQC is based of, which is real world non flashy actually working militarily designed CQC which is cool as ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hell.

I work in a field that requires that I know some manouvers to make arrests, now we are talking basic basic ♥♥♥♥ that just stops a person from hitting you or that forces them to the ground so that they can be pinned, and anything more than that is impressive in its own right, seeing as Snake goes far beyond the basic I am impressed.

But hey if you want flashy moves that take 10 seconds to pull off ending with snake shot to death trying to beat up one guy, I am sure someone will mod it in for you.

[Vriz]

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

Автор сообщения: InfiltratorN7

actually on the punching like a lunatic part notice how smart he is about where he throws those punches. snakes know well how to disable the opponent before going for the knockout blow, which tells me he is very smart about cqc. he disables the legs and feet before going in for the knockout. still, as other said, what more could you want? there are more than enough cqc animations for a game that also has guns.

3 hit takedown from behind
5 hit takedown from front
body slam
throw (also hit takedowns ending in throws)
pull from ladder
grab over cover
grab around cover and toss into wall
grab and hold
bionic arm moves
prone swipe
dive into enemy
throw enemy into other enemy
multiple body slams in one quick move

might be more, but that is some pretty good variety imo

Right, and he can get shot in the face and still stay alive if you escape... yea this game is all about realism...

You mean with a tranq gun? A water pistol even??

[Saph]

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

Автор сообщения: Sniper King

The difference being that MGS is and always has been a stealth based series with emphasis on incapacitation over outright killing. Are you going to post a fatalities compilation of every MK game next? Comparing a game to another game is pointless because it ISN'T the game you're comparing it to.

There are plenty of options in how you approach an enemy in this game and the idea is to not be seen, big surprise that you can't just CQC every enemy because guns are a thing. Boss isn't a ninja, yes he and the original Boss created CQC but that doesn't mean they invented 9001 flashy moves that you can use in game. Besides, what the game budget brought us is incredible and complaining about the lack of variety in something that is supposed to be quick and precise is just silly.

That wasn't the point of the op... The point was simply the relation between lore emphasis and what was offered in gameplay...

Lore should have emphasized... Stealth... which it doesn't as his main skill...so yea

At what point in the any of the games explicitly stated that Boss' primary skillset is his close quarters capabilities? None of them have been exclusively built around it and none have disputed the practicality of CQC either.

The style was developed specifically for quick takedowns and that's it, it's not the high point of your arsenal in any of the games and is not presented as such. It's just a tool, like your guns, items and support, it's something to be used situationally to aid in your infiltration of enemy lines. Ever since Metal Gear the main highlight of the main character's skillset has been stealth presented through gameplay.

Cutscenes are by definition, scripted events that play out to advance the story of a game. Story, not gameplay. Both are seperate entities and exist as such, cutscene QTEs are the only real exception to this rule and are more of a nuisance than anything else. If you want to play a game with hundreds of unique animations then go play some fighting games, if you want stealth play MGS, Splinter Cell, Deus Ex, etc. This topic is pointless much like your opinion on such a miniscule part of the series.

[Zelarion]

Автор сообщения: WirelessPillow

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

And being shot at in the head 10 times and still alive is realistic...

Cognitive disonance I sense dudes...

Why can't you guys just admit you're dissapoiinted with the cqc and be done with it?

Instead of trying to give some lame excuse.

It just shows me how much it hurts you too the fact you're actually defending it.

Let's get this straight, this is a fantastic game, which has much gameplay joy to offer, but this revolves around a lesser mentioned skill in the Lore, it's called STEALTH...

I mean, they killed my main bro Sam off of this bullshat emphasis on this CQC jazz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrvEWWYLDHM

I never mentioned realism, just what the CQC is based of, which is real world non flashy actually working militarily designed CQC which is cool as ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hell.

I work in a field that requires that I know some manouvers to make arrests, now we are talking basic basic ♥♥♥♥ that just stops a person from hitting you or that forces them to the ground so that they can be pinned, and anything more than that is impressive in its own right, seeing as Snake goes far beyond the basic I am impressed.

But hey if you want flashy moves that take 10 seconds to pull off ending with snake shot to death trying to beat up one guy, I am sure someone will mod it in for you.

This is where cognitive disonance comes in, on one hand we say we want realism, and on the other hand it's completely ok to not have realism... which is it?

[WirelessPillow]

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

Автор сообщения: WirelessPillow

I never mentioned realism, just what the CQC is based of, which is real world non flashy actually working militarily designed CQC which is cool as ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hell.

I work in a field that requires that I know some manouvers to make arrests, now we are talking basic basic ♥♥♥♥ that just stops a person from hitting you or that forces them to the ground so that they can be pinned, and anything more than that is impressive in its own right, seeing as Snake goes far beyond the basic I am impressed.

But hey if you want flashy moves that take 10 seconds to pull off ending with snake shot to death trying to beat up one guy, I am sure someone will mod it in for you.

This is where cognitive disonance comes in, on one hand we say we want realism, and on the other hand it's completely ok to not have realism... which is it?

Very nice, you can leave now troll.

[Zelarion]

Автор сообщения: Sniper King

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

That wasn't the point of the op... The point was simply the relation between lore emphasis and what was offered in gameplay...

Lore should have emphasized... Stealth... which it doesn't as his main skill...so yea

At what point in the any of the games explicitly stated that Boss' primary skillset is his close quarters capabilities? None of them have been exclusively built around it and none have disputed the practicality of CQC either.

The style was developed specifically for quick takedowns and that's it, it's not the high point of your arsenal in any of the games and is not presented as such. Ever since Metal Gear the main highlight of the main character's skillset has been stealth presented through gameplay.

Cutscenes are by definition, scripted events that play out to advance the story of a game. Story, not gameplay. Both are seperate entities and exist as such, cutscene QTEs are the only real exception to this rule and are more of a nuisance than anything else. If you want to play a game with hundreds of unique animations then go play some fighting games, if you want stealth play MGS, Splinter Cell, Deus Ex, etc. This topic is pointless much like your opinion on such a miniscule part of the series.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/CQC

[Zelarion]

Автор сообщения: Sniper King

Автор сообщения: Zelarion

That wasn't the point of the op... The point was simply the relation between lore emphasis and what was offered in gameplay...

Lore should have emphasized... Stealth... which it doesn't as his main skill...so yea

At what point in the any of the games explicitly stated that Boss' primary skillset is his close quarters capabilities? None of them have been exclusively built around it and none have disputed the practicality of CQC either.

The style was developed specifically for quick takedowns and that's it, it's not the high point of your arsenal in any of the games and is not presented as such. It's just a tool, like your guns, items and support, it's something to be used situationally to aid in your infiltration of enemy lines. Ever since Metal Gear the main highlight of the main character's skillset has been stealth presented through gameplay.

Cutscenes are by definition, scripted events that play out to advance the story of a game. Story, not gameplay. Both are seperate entities and exist as such, cutscene QTEs are the only real exception to this rule and are more of a nuisance than anything else. If you want to play a game with hundreds of unique animations then go play some fighting games, if you want stealth play MGS, Splinter Cell, Deus Ex, etc. This topic is pointless much like your opinion on such a miniscule part of the series.

I'll quote for you "The style also incorporates various grabs, chokeholds, strikes and throws to
CombatKnife
Naked Snake using a CQC knife technique in combat
disarm and disable opponents."

[Zelarion]

keyword "Various"