Big Boss SPOILER

[Resco]

So, if the fake Big Boss that we play here is the one that creates Outer Heaven and the one that dies in MG2, what happened to the real Big Boss? Or does the fake Big Boss die in MG1 and the real one dies in MG2?

[Mutant1988]

But yeah, him being a cyborg in MG2 without having faced Solid Snake in MG1 is a plot hole.

Or rather, it's a incongruity that isn't resolved in this game (The supposed finale to the Big Boss saga, which ended up not being about what he did at all) and will never be solved by the original director.

[Spider]

引用自 Mutant1988：

引用自 DsR Spider：

He wasn't a cyborg in Metal Gear 2 what you're thinking of is Snakes Revenge..... We don't talk about Snakes Revenge.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Boss#Early_games

"Besides the account given in the manual for Metal Gear 2, a call to George Kasler during the final battle mentioned a rumor that Big Boss lost his right eye during the battle in Outer Heaven, alongside his hands, feet and right ear before he was reconstructed as a cyborg under the Snatcher Project, referring to an earlier work by Hideo Kojima. In addition, although Kasler implied that Big Boss's supposed cyborg status made him invincible to Snake's abilities and attacks, Snake managed to finish him off with a flamethrower. This account was also included in the Metal Gear Solid 4 Database, and the novelization for Metal Gear Solid 4 by Project Itoh. It should be pointed out that Big Boss lost his right eye and left hand long before the Outer Heaven Uprising. The rumors about him being a cyborg may also be reference to Snake's Revenge, in which he does appear as a cyborg. "

I played through MG2 Solid Snake in the HD collecton (which had heavely edited dialogue) and not once was it said that he was a cyborg. I do know that in Snakes Revenge that was a plot point but at least in the HD collecton version of MG2 he wasn't

[Mutant1988]

引用自 Coleco_84：

引用自 Tiptoe：

Actually BB did not send SS to kill VS. He never though SS would be able to do it. But SS showed that he was equal if not a superior soldier than BB himself.. After SS killed VS .. BB went into hiding.

We dont know if he sent him because he was a rookie or not. Now VENOM is the one that says that like in MG1.

Seriously, is it that difficult to read the wiki?

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Outer_Heaven_Uprising#.22Return_of_Fox_Hounder.22

[Skaldy]

引用自 Coleco_84：

引用自 Skaldy：

have you even played 4? BB himself says that was a clone i dont care about the rest

Solidus was the clone, not BB... and he said "you killed me twice" refering to MG1 and MG2.

So you are saying? I mean BB was lying in the end of 4 where he told Solid that cipher held him storage thingy while Solid had clashed against his clones/doubles? Or are you trying to say MGS4 BB is a clone real ones died before that?

[Spider]

引用自 Mutant1988：

引用自 Coleco_84：

We dont know if he sent him because he was a rookie or not. Now VENOM is the one that says that like in MG1.

Seriously, is it that difficult to read the wiki?

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Outer_Heaven_Uprising#.22Return_of_Fox_Hounder.22

Don't use the wiki because MGSV might retcon a lot of things and they might not have had time to update it.

[Bite]

引用自 Coleco_84：

引用自 Mutant1988：

There's no explanation for why the real Big Boss is a cyborg in Metal Gear 2 though, when he wasn't the one being mortally injured in Metal Gear.



Sent by the real Big Boss to intentionally fail the mission. Unless Kojima retconned his motivations entirely to make him 100% heroic.

We dont know, he keeps retconing the saga, but considering how mad Venom becomes after listening the tape of "Operation Intruder 1313" (Metal Gear 1), is not imposible he became against the real Big Boss.

He doesn't get mad, he smiles, and then punches the mirror as he's determined to fight off Solid Snake.

[AIntPJZ]

Yeah anyway . I knew from the beginning something was fishy. When you create your avatar. You're choosing VS real appearance. The medic that shield BB in groundzeroes from the explosion. So BB had almost no damage thanks to venom.

The only ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is that they brainwashed the poor guy. That not cool. He seem more like a victim to me. A Puppet. But still hell of a soldier if he can manage to beat a metal gear by himself.

[Coleco_84]

引用自 DsR Spider：

引用自 Mutant1988：

Seriously, is it that difficult to read the wiki?

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Outer_Heaven_Uprising#.22Return_of_Fox_Hounder.22

Don't use the wiki because MGSV might retcon a lot of things and they might not have had time to update it.

He was talking about hwo Snake beat him twice, and beat all his clones.

[Skaldy]

引用自 Tiptoe：

Yeah anyway . I knew from the beginning something was fishy. When you create your avatar. You're choosing VS real appearance. The medic that shield BB in groundzeroes from the explosion. So BB had almost no damage thanks to venom.

The only ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is that they brainwashed the poor guy. That not cool.

That actually makes sense cause this was the time when everything went south and BB went mental on the world. Even pacifist like Kaz Miller rebels against him later. BB biggest problem is he didnt understand what did The Boss said to him during her death. That's why he says something similar to Solid infront of The Boss's grave before he dies too

[Bite]

引用自 Tiptoe：

Yeah anyway . I knew from the beginning something was fishy. When you create your avatar. You're choosing VS real appearance. The medic that shield BB in groundzeroes from the explosion. So BB had almost no damage thanks to venom.

The only ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is that they brainwashed the poor guy. That not cool. He seem more like a victim to me. A Puppet. But still hell of a soldier if he can manage to beat a metal gear by himself.

He likes it, Ocelot says he likes it, we as the players like to be Big Boss too, he smiles when he finds out the truth, there is really no where to come from thinking he ended up a victim.

At first, Big Boss' actions seem horrible, but given the meaning they take in MGSV, he didn't really do anything evil at all, now he comes across in the series as a totally good guy.

[Coleco_84]

引用自 DsR Spider：

引用自 Mutant1988：

Seriously, is it that difficult to read the wiki?

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Outer_Heaven_Uprising#.22Return_of_Fox_Hounder.22

Don't use the wiki because MGSV might retcon a lot of things and they might not have had time to update it.

Is funny how this guy use the wiki made by fans instead of the freaking games. And about MG2, Big Boss being "a cyborg" was a nod to Snatcher, nothing more than that, he wasnt actually a cyborg. Plus, he NEVER said to Snake he was his father, thata was Kojima's first retcon in MGS1.

[Mutant1988]

引用自 Coleco_84：

引用自 DsR Spider：

Don't use the wiki because MGSV might retcon a lot of things and they might not have had time to update it.

Is funny how this guy use the wiki made by fans instead of the freaking games. And about MG2, Big Boss being "a cyborg" was a nod to Snatcher, nothing more than that, he wasnt actually a cyborg. Plus, he NEVER said to Snake he was his father, thata was Kojima's first retcon in MGS1.

How about a transcript then Mr Skeptic.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/msx/562988-metal-gear-2-solid-snake/faqs/26088

"**If you contact Kasler during the fight, here's his response:

**140.93**
Kasler:
Big Boss...
There's not a mercenary in the world who hasn't heard of him. He's
a like a god, a living legend.
Snake:
I already know all that! I need new information!
Kasler:
OK, OK... but this is only a rumor, understand? Three years ago,
when Outer Heaven fell, Big Boss was seriously wounded. He almost
died...
He lost both hands, both feet, his right eye, and his right ear.
But somehow... he survived.
Then an Eastern bloc despot took an interest in him. Probably
couldn't resist getting his hands on a soldier of Big Boss's
caliber.
They decided to use Big Boss as a guinea pig for Madnar's Snatcher
project.
I don't know the details, but apparently it involved turning him
into a cyborg. Now he's half man and half machine. Hard to believe,
I know.
But if it's true, Snake, you're way out of you're league. None of
techniques is going to do so much as put a scratch on him.
Snake... give it up... There's no way you can win this time...
Over and out."

[Skaldy]

引用自 Tiptoe：

A Puppet. But still hell of a soldier if he can manage to beat a metal gear by himself.

they didnt predict that part too thats probably why BB leaves Diamond Dogs to venom.

[Spider]

引用自 Mutant1988：

引用自 Coleco_84：

Is funny how this guy use the wiki made by fans instead of the freaking games. And about MG2, Big Boss being "a cyborg" was a nod to Snatcher, nothing more than that, he wasnt actually a cyborg. Plus, he NEVER said to Snake he was his father, thata was Kojima's first retcon in MGS1.

How about a transcript then Mr Skeptic.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/msx/562988-metal-gear-2-solid-snake/faqs/26088

"**If you contact Kasler during the fight, here's his response:

**140.93**
Kasler:
Big Boss...
There's not a mercenary in the world who hasn't heard of him. He's
a like a god, a living legend.
Snake:
I already know all that! I need new information!
Kasler:
OK, OK... but this is only a rumor, understand? Three years ago,
when Outer Heaven fell, Big Boss was seriously wounded. He almost
died...
He lost both hands, both feet, his right eye, and his right ear.
But somehow... he survived.
Then an Eastern bloc despot took an interest in him. Probably
couldn't resist getting his hands on a soldier of Big Boss's
caliber.
They decided to use Big Boss as a guinea pig for Madnar's Snatcher
project.
I don't know the details, but apparently it involved turning him
into a cyborg. Now he's half man and half machine. Hard to believe,
I know.
But if it's true, Snake, you're way out of you're league. None of
techniques is going to do so much as put a scratch on him.
Snake... give it up... There's no way you can win this time...
Over and out."

How could he lose his right eye twice? he lost it in 1964 so really tell me how you lose the dead eye you haven't had since the 60s in 1995? Take that conversation with a grain of salt cause that character Kasler isn't even in the rest of the series.

[Sturmgewehrz]

引用自 Tim Timsen：

You're that ninja.

ninja?