My thoughts on "demon Snake" and the nature of demon points

[Neonwarrior]

My Snake's been Demon Snake for a LOOOONG time now. First I achieved demon Snake status by the time I beat the game just from the amount of people I killed over the course of like 82 hours, then I developed a nuclear weapon (which adds 50,000 demon points compared to the 60 you get from killing someone, instantly making you Demon Snake even if you never killed anybody). I don't know if the points have a cap, but ever since then I've tried not to kill anybody and reduce the demon score, but it just doesn't seem to want to go away. It's a pain, too, because killing is almost required for FOB missions and you still get demon points for killing guards.

I mean I understand getting demon points for killing unnecessarily, for example just calling bombardments on every single outpost or going in with D-walker's flamethrower and murdering everybody. The soldiers you fight are likely drafted, with families of their own, who just want to go home and etc etc etc. But in a combat situation, many times I am forced to kill just to defend myself. It should be understandable and acceptable that Snake, a legendary soldier, kills to accomplish his mission, right?

The "demon" status just kind of comes out of nowhere and the game doesn't tell you about it at all, ever, so there's no real incentive to NOT kill unless you already know about the demon points or get a higher score. MGS3 did a similar thing with The Sorrow, but at least you weren't punished afterwards. There's also far too few ways to remove demon status; right now I'm trying to farm nukes from FOBs, since you get 1,000 demon points removed for disarming one and something like 30,000 removed for disarming ten, but other than that there's no real way to get a large amount of demon point reductions except for getting certain achievements, which you can only do once.

I think that instead of being instantly and permanently covered in blood until you manage to reduce your demon score, that the act of the "horn" pushing its way out of Snake's skull causes spontaneous bleeding, and that over time he slowly becomes more bloody even outside of combat. And once you do become bloody, you can wash it off normally in the shower. Maybe even have the blood appear more quickly the longer the horn is. Wouldn't that be more interesting?

[No_Quarter]

it comes from "blood on your hands that can never be washed away", so it is as intended, your idea doesn't fit the story

[Neonwarrior]

Originally posted by n0_quarter_:

it comes from "blood on your hands that can never be washed away", so it is as intended, your idea doesn't fit the story

There is no such thing as blood that can never be washed away. It comes off just as easily as dirt if you add a little soap...

But really, I've beaten the game already. At this point I'm doing non-canon FOB missions and replays. I understand that Snake is burdened by... something, since he didn't really do anything bad, ever, over the course of the game. I just want to wash off the blood.

[Deathraven13]

" because killing is almost required for FOB missions and you still get demon points for killing guards. " That's where I stopped.

[Neonwarrior]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

" because killing is almost required for FOB missions and you still get demon points for killing guards. " That's where I stopped.

Hm? Why? Are you stopping because you you disagree with me, or are you stopping because you need to go to the bathroom or something? Are you going to read the rest later? Give me some context...

[Bugjuice]

Been demon since 600 hours ago, wouldn't mind if we can have more options to get rid of the perma-blood without grinding nukes or mission 23 for days. Maybe they receive enough complaints and grief etc, they will give you what you want just like Quiet's issues. Even a dlc wouldn't be such a bad idea imo. lmao

This is more like a punishment for bad players, I getting shot up quite a lot when playing as combat staff, the staff member managed to look bloodier that demon snake himself, I'll just spend 50,000 gmp and call up a weather control so I can take a shower in the middle of nowhere.

[No_Quarter]

I rarely kill even in FOB, always NL.
and that thing I quoted is something like a metaphore, when people say that they think that person whose hands are those killed a lot of people, and blood is theirs..
you are a poet as much as the log is

[Deathraven13]

Originally posted by Neonwarrior:

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

" because killing is almost required for FOB missions and you still get demon points for killing guards. " That's where I stopped.

Hm? Why? Are you stopping because you you disagree with me, or are you stopping because you need to go to the bathroom or something? Are you going to read the rest later? Give me some context...

Because saying in a stealth game that you must kill people means that you have not played it enough, you can use non lethal weapon, hell if you are very good you can even go in with just a water pistol, so it's your fault if you are Demon Snake, not the game.

[Neonwarrior]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by Neonwarrior:

Hm? Why? Are you stopping because you you disagree with me, or are you stopping because you need to go to the bathroom or something? Are you going to read the rest later? Give me some context...

Because saying in a stealth game that you must kill people means that you have not played it enough, you can use non lethal weapon, hell if you are very good you can even go in with just a water pistol, so it's your fault if you are Demon Snake, not the game.

This is a stealth game, but it's also an action game and a base management game. It's marketed as 'tactical espionage operations,' not 'stealth action redefined (Splinter Cell'). I'd also argue that the previous Metal Gear Solid's did stealth better than this one, especially 3 and 4. Plenty of stealth games give you the ability to kill people silently, even if you get more points for not doing so. I'm just saying that the "demon Snake" thing is a little unfair since there's only a few ways to get rid of the status.

And besides, I only stated that killing is almost required, and only in FOB missions since a lot of online resources are on the line and I don't take the risk of the enemy getting back up before I move on to the next area. I also don't have the R&D level required to make that OP 1-shot tranq pistol that people seem to love using. You act like unless I go non-lethal that I'm somehow bad at the game.

[Deathraven13]

Originally posted by Neonwarrior:

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Because saying in a stealth game that you must kill people means that you have not played it enough, you can use non lethal weapon, hell if you are very good you can even go in with just a water pistol, so it's your fault if you are Demon Snake, not the game.

This is a stealth game, but it's also an action game and a base management game. It's marketed as 'tactical espionage operations,' not 'stealth action redefined (Splinter Cell'). I'd also argue that the previous Metal Gear Solid's did stealth better than this one, especially 3 and 4. Plenty of stealth games give you the ability to kill people silently, even if you get more points for not doing so. I'm just saying that the "demon Snake" thing is a little unfair since there's only a few ways to get rid of the status.

And besides, I only stated that killing is almost required, and only in FOB missions since a lot of online resources are on the line and I don't take the risk of the enemy getting back up before I move on to the next area. I also don't have the R&D level required to make that OP 1-shot tranq pistol that people seem to love using. You act like unless I go non-lethal that I'm somehow bad at the game.

"You act like unless I go non-lethal that I'm somehow bad at the game."
No, but then don't complain about being demon snake, you have tons of thing to use in order to not kill ennemies.
"And besides, I only stated that killing is almost required, and only in FOB missions since a lot of online resources are on the line and I don't take the risk of the enemy getting back up before I move on to the next area." And now I'm even more sure that you don't know how to play non lethal.....

[Neonwarrior]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

"You act like unless I go non-lethal that I'm somehow bad at the game."
No, but then don't complain about being demon snake, you have tons of thing to use in order to not kill ennemies.
"And besides, I only stated that killing is almost required, and only in FOB missions since a lot of online resources are on the line and I don't take the risk of the enemy getting back up before I move on to the next area." And now I'm even more sure that you don't know how to play non lethal.....

I'm not complaining about being demon snake! I like the idea of there being a visual change in my character because they killed too often. I just want there to either a better way to get rid of the status, or a way to wash off the blood from my character.

Also, whether or not I "know how to play non-lethal," that wasn't the point of this post. Stop getting sidetracked on my "skills."

[Deathraven13]

Originally posted by Neonwarrior:

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

"You act like unless I go non-lethal that I'm somehow bad at the game."
No, but then don't complain about being demon snake, you have tons of thing to use in order to not kill ennemies.
"And besides, I only stated that killing is almost required, and only in FOB missions since a lot of online resources are on the line and I don't take the risk of the enemy getting back up before I move on to the next area." And now I'm even more sure that you don't know how to play non lethal.....

I'm not complaining about being demon snake! I like the idea of there being a visual change in my character because they killed too often. I just want there to either a better way to get rid of the status, or a way to wash off the blood from my character.

Also, whether or not I "know how to play non-lethal," that wasn't the point of this post. Stop getting sidetracked on my "skills."

There is way to get rid of demon points, there are tons of guide online and even on the forum.
Also you know that killing people is bad because you lose heroism...

[Neonwarrior]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by Neonwarrior:

I'm not complaining about being demon snake! I like the idea of there being a visual change in my character because they killed too often. I just want there to either a better way to get rid of the status, or a way to wash off the blood from my character.

Also, whether or not I "know how to play non-lethal," that wasn't the point of this post. Stop getting sidetracked on my "skills."

There is way to get rid of demon points, there are tons of guide online and even on the forum.
Also you know that killing people is bad because you lose heroism...

Every single guide online says the same thing: grind mission 23, extract animals, or avoid killing. They also say to disarm nukes.

Killing people is bad because I lose heroism? I have over 300k of the stuff and getting more all the time, so the fact that I am gaining heroism over time instead of losing it says otherwise.

[Deathraven13]

Originally posted by Neonwarrior:

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

There is way to get rid of demon points, there are tons of guide online and even on the forum.
Also you know that killing people is bad because you lose heroism...

Every single guide online says the same thing: grind mission 23, extract animals, or avoid killing. They also say to disarm nukes.

Killing people is bad because I lose heroism? I have over 300k of the stuff and getting more all the time, so the fact that I am gaining heroism over time instead of losing it says otherwise.

Sigh..... They all say the same thing because it's the only way, and If you do something that make you lose heroism then you know that it's not a good thing.

[LUSQUETE]

Yeah, smt like that.

[Neonwarrior]

Originally posted by Deathraven13:

Originally posted by Neonwarrior:

Every single guide online says the same thing: grind mission 23, extract animals, or avoid killing. They also say to disarm nukes.

Killing people is bad because I lose heroism? I have over 300k of the stuff and getting more all the time, so the fact that I am gaining heroism over time instead of losing it says otherwise.

Sigh..... They all say the same thing because it's the only way, and If you do something that make you lose heroism then you know that it's not a good thing.

But the demon status isn't determined by heroism. Even if it were, I still have plenty of heroism in reserve to balance out the losses.