METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN

METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN

Massive Story Spoilers about Psycho Mantis and Man on Fire
Okay so for anyone who finished the story. we know that the man on fire is Volgin's spirit or something like that appearing in some form of deep hatred for big boss. So anyway why do they betray skull face and attack him along with all of xof with sahelanthropus, was it because he realised that it wasn't really big boss but it was actually medic? i don't understand why that part really happend. Did he realise he was being used and why did mantis turn on them too??? Did skull face know that you aren't really big boss and they sensed it or something like that? Or am i just crazy and looking too deep into this?
Last edited by Paddy Shamboyo; Mar 27, 2016 @ 3:25pm
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
Mace Mar 27, 2016 @ 3:26pm 
Man on fire never attacks skullface, he gets smashed by sahelantropus.
Also, psycho mantis thing, it's because Eli had a bigger hatred than skull face, which made Psycho help him instead.
Bite Mar 27, 2016 @ 3:35pm 
The tapes you get from Episode 38 "Extraordinary" explain everything you're asking.

Basically, Psycho Mantis' ego is too weak, hence he feeds on other people's egos. The stronger the emotions are the stronger the bond, that's why he leaves Skullface's side when Eli comes in contact with him, because Eli's anger is greater than Skullface. Psycho Mantis even aided Venom once, when he summoned the flaming whale at the begining of the game (You can look closely at Psycho Mantis in order to notice who's will he's following, during most of the game he's wearing a Gas Mask which resembles Skullface's mask, but during the flaming whale scene he actually has Venom's horn sticking out of his head).
45 Mar 27, 2016 @ 4:38pm 
It doesn't matter, it's contrived garbage used to string together what little semblance of plot this game has. The real story is that this game is intentionally incomplete (to what degree is intentional and what is time restraints we will never know) but if you're looking this deep into it this game exists to insult you.
Lucky Flame Mar 27, 2016 @ 5:16pm 
Because Eli gets control over Mantis's mind.

Simple answer, simple solution; if you think that's contrived you should go to bed soon because you have school tomorrow morning.
45 Mar 27, 2016 @ 6:15pm 
Originally posted by Lucky Flame:
Because Eli gets control over Mantis's mind.

Simple answer, simple solution; if you think that's contrived you should go to bed soon because you have school tomorrow morning.

mantis' entire existence in this game is both contrived and arbitrary. It's fan service of the worst kind because it doesn't even revel in the thing we like about mantis. It was done the right way in 4 and even there it was contrived, there was no reason for it other than to reintroduce a joke there. But here mantis just exists for the sake of it, they didn't need him to control the robot it was just written that way. It also doesn't make sense because that's not how he functioned in mgs1. He was a living, thinking, human.

Volgin had nothing to do with this game and despite his boss fight being the closest thing to a metal gear fight it's over in a minute and then you never hear from him again.
Last edited by 45; Mar 27, 2016 @ 6:18pm
45 Mar 27, 2016 @ 6:21pm 
Hey I got some plot holes for you, why is ocelot western suddenly? He's russian. Where's ocelot's personality, the man is a blank slate despite being outlandishly weird throughout the entire series before and after the events of this game. Where's the explanation for that?

There's an arguement between miller and ocelot at the end of this game that exists to explain why they're on opposite sides in mgs1 but I guess kojima forgot that miller wasn't even in mgs1. Even worse where's the explanation for why they're on the same side in mgsv? Big boss and ocelot were out to kill each other in mgs3 and there's no explanation as to why they're friends. Nowhere in the hours and hours of tapes is this ever explained.

Instead this game was too busy running damage control for the absolute blunder that was mgs4, everything now being explained away with parasites instead of nano machines (because litterally everything was explained by nanomachines in 4) and also trying to retcon the statements of 4 and peace walker which place zero, the comedic relief character who talked about putting a snake shaped gun into an attache case, as the bad guy.
Last edited by 45; Mar 27, 2016 @ 6:23pm
45 Mar 27, 2016 @ 6:24pm 
The story of this game is garbage but it's supposed to be, it's in the title, there's nothing satisfactory about the events or answers in this game. You're just left feeling empty at what should be there.
Last edited by 45; Mar 27, 2016 @ 6:25pm
Bite Mar 27, 2016 @ 6:34pm 
Originally posted by 45:
Hey I got some plot holes for you, why is ocelot western suddenly? He's russian. Where's ocelot's personality, the man is a blank slate despite being outlandishly weird throughout the entire series before and after the events of this game. Where's the explanation for that?

Definetely a weak way to progress the character. You could name him Charlie and I'd believe you it's a completely new character.

Originally posted by 45:
There's an arguement between miller and ocelot at the end of this game that exists to explain why they're on opposite sides in mgs1 but I guess kojima forgot that miller wasn't even in mgs1.

The whole point of the final dialogue between Ocelot and Miller is to explain why Miller isn't in MGS1 (As in, Ocelot concludes that someday they'll have to kill each other after they each aid one of the sons of Big Boss, which happens MGS1 as Miller oversaw David and Ocelot oversaw Eli, which resulted in Ocelot killing Miller and having Eli replace him for most of the game).

Originally posted by 45:
Even worse where's the explanation for why they're on the same side in mgsv? Big boss and ocelot were out to kill each other in mgs3 and there's no explanation as to why they're friends. Nowhere in the hours and hours of tapes is this ever explained.

The explanation is all over the place. Plus, this was explained back in, ironically, MGS:PO aswell as MGS4. Ocelot was one of the founding members of The Patriots, he acquired half of the Philosopher's Legacy (which was in the hands of the CIA, whom Ocelot had a debt to settle after they set up the death of his parents) and gave it to Zero in exchange for allowing Big Boss to join them. Zero agrees and Ocelot and Big Boss work on The Patriots for some time. In actuality Big Boss and Ocelot were never "enemies", they were rivals, sure, but they were always on the same side (Even by the end of MGS4, Ocelot is carrying out the will of Big Boss).

Originally posted by 45:
Instead this game was too busy running damage control for the absolute blunder that was mgs4, everything now being explained away with parasites instead of nano machines (because litterally everything was explained by nanomachines in 4) and also trying to retcon the statements of 4 and peace walker which place zero, the comedic relief character who talked about putting a snake shaped gun into an attache case, as the bad guy.

Yeh I agree with this one, I dislike the spin they gave Zero, and I very much dislike that somehow, Big Boss doesn't know that Zero saved his life and totally didn't fear him or hate him as he pressumed at the end of 4, specially given that he went ahead with Zero's plan to save his life.

Also, about your other post about Psycho Mantis and Volgin being contrived, I feel Psycho Mantis actually isn't contrived in this game, contrary to MGS4 in which his actions directly contradicted his final moments from MGS1. Sadly, I feel his evolution as a character is overlooked mainly due to the missing Episode 51, by the end of the one you could see some semblance of humanity on him as he decides to save Eli on his own account, showing a bit about where the character would be heading (FOXHOUND with Liquid). Volgin on the other hand is nothing more than an excuse to burn up several locations and that's pretty much it.
45 Mar 27, 2016 @ 11:59pm 
Originally posted by Bite:
The whole point of the final dialogue between Ocelot and Miller is to explain why Miller isn't in MGS1 (As in, Ocelot concludes that someday they'll have to kill each other after they each aid one of the sons of Big Boss, which happens MGS1 as Miller oversaw David and Ocelot oversaw Eli, which resulted in Ocelot killing Miller and having Eli replace him for most of the game).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoLZS8-gCA

This is the most non-sensical series of sentences I've heard from a computer game in a very long time. Nothing about these character's actions or emotions makes any sense and it is the most forced piece of this game.

"In the future I'm going to oppose you because I don't believe in anything we're doing, but for now let's just hang out and keep doing it"

I'm sorry, what? You're taking mgs3's scene theme a little too far there. Your politics are already decided, you're not "allies today and enemies the next" just because you have to be.

Originally posted by Bite:
The explanation is all over the place. Plus, this was explained back in, ironically, MGS:PO aswell as MGS4. Ocelot was one of the founding members of The Patriots, he acquired half of the Philosopher's Legacy (which was in the hands of the CIA, whom Ocelot had a debt to settle after they set up the death of his parents) and gave it to Zero in exchange for allowing Big Boss to join them. Zero agrees and Ocelot and Big Boss work on The Patriots for some time. In actuality Big Boss and Ocelot were never "enemies", they were rivals, sure, but they were always on the same side (Even by the end of MGS4, Ocelot is carrying out the will of Big Boss).

No, ocelot is trying to carry out the will of THE boss, just like zero and just like big boss, but none of them truly understood what the boss' will was. The only person who did, didn't even know who or what the boss was and realized her goal by just doing good things. Solid Snake's "philanthropy" (might as well have called it good do-ers) is what accomplished this. Not ocelot's ai control, not big boss' facist ocean nation and not zero's intrusive spy agency.

Ocelot is Big boss' enemy in mgs3 and is actively trying to kill him in that game, you are out of your mind if you think otherwise. After the events of mgs3 there is nothing tying him to big boss at all.

Originally posted by Bite:
Also, about your other post about Psycho Mantis and Volgin being contrived, I feel Psycho Mantis actually isn't contrived in this game, contrary to MGS4 in which his actions directly contradicted his final moments from MGS1. Sadly, I feel his evolution as a character is overlooked mainly due to the missing Episode 51, by the end of the one you could see some semblance of humanity on him as he decides to save Eli on his own account, showing a bit about where the character would be heading (FOXHOUND with Liquid). Volgin on the other hand is nothing more than an excuse to burn up several locations and that's pretty much it.

He's not even a character, he's a plot device, he never speaks a word which makes no sense, the guy litterally wouldn't shutup in mgs1 and yet here he is just some kind of psychic remote control for acting out the desires of other characters. The only reason he's there is to explain why he's working with liquid in mgs1, but really you don't need that because he's part of a mercenary squad, liquid could've just hired them.
f. Mar 28, 2016 @ 12:20am 

Originally posted by 45:
No, ocelot is trying to carry out the will of THE boss, just like zero and just like big boss, but none of them truly understood what the boss' will was. The only person who did, didn't even know who or what the boss was and realized her goal by just doing good things. Solid Snake's "philanthropy" (might as well have called it good do-ers) is what accomplished this. Not ocelot's ai control, not big boss' facist ocean nation and not zero's intrusive spy agency.

Ocelot is Big boss' enemy in mgs3 and is actively trying to kill him in that game, you are out of your mind if you think otherwise. After the events of mgs3 there is nothing tying him to big boss at all.

Ocelot had a crush on Big Boss because he taught him everything he knows but he needed to play his role on MGS3 and be his enemy. Just like Solid Snake and Gray Fox were best friends but they still needed to fight to the death because they were soldiers on different sides on Zanzibar Land.
Ocelot and Big Boss are the same deal.
Last edited by f.; Mar 28, 2016 @ 12:24am
Bite Mar 28, 2016 @ 7:45am 
Originally posted by 45:

This is the most non-sensical series of sentences I've heard from a computer game in a very long time. Nothing about these character's actions or emotions makes any sense and it is the most forced piece of this game.

"In the future I'm going to oppose you because I don't believe in anything we're doing, but for now let's just hang out and keep doing it"

I'm sorry, what? You're taking mgs3's scene theme a little too far there. Your politics are already decided, you're not "allies today and enemies the next" just because you have to be.


If you feel that's really -that- nonsensical then it's fine, I'm not trying to change your mind. To me it does make sense in a way. At least it finally explains who the hell killed Miller and gives some background to the why (Beyond putting Liquid in his shoes).


Originally posted by 45:
No, ocelot is trying to carry out the will of THE boss,


No, he explicitly states he was carrying out Big Boss' will. "Our father's will. His Outer Heaven is complete" says Ocelot as he finally dies to FOXDIE.

Originally posted by 45:
just like zero and just like big boss, but none of them truly understood what the boss' will was. The only person who did, didn't even know who or what the boss was and realized her goal by just doing good things. Solid Snake's "philanthropy" (might as well have called it good do-ers) is what accomplished this. Not ocelot's ai control, not big boss' facist ocean nation and not zero's intrusive spy agency.

Still, Ocelot was carrying out the will of Big Boss, not of his mother (One could argue, it was Big Boss' vision based on The Boss' vision, but regardless Ocelot very clearly did everything he did for Big Boss after Snake Eater).

Originally posted by 45:
Ocelot is Big boss' enemy in mgs3 and is actively trying to kill him in that game, you are out of your mind if you think otherwise. After the events of mgs3 there is nothing tying him to big boss at all.


The after-credits dialogue in MGS3 explains that Ocelot was Adam, the spy who was supposed to meet with Snake at the beginning (And you can see Ocelot's approach the first time they meet isn't exactly hostile until he realizes Snake doesn't know who he is). Due to miscomunication and Eva's intervention Snake could never understand who Ocelot was until the end of the game. Ocelot's aim was to aid Snake in retrieving the legacy for the CIA (who Ocelot was directly working for; although again, their rivalry and Ocelot's temper always puts them at odds). I'm not saying Ocelot's actions make any sense, even in MGS4 he needs Snake to live, yet he comes close to killing him plenty of times. The storytelling is just very convenient about Ocelot's "planning", but through and through he isn't really aiming to kill either Big Boss or even Solid Snake.

I'd really apreciate it if you didn't call me crazy or out of my mind for approaching the story in a different manner than you, though.

Originally posted by 45:
He's not even a character, he's a plot device, he never speaks a word which makes no sense, the guy litterally wouldn't shutup in mgs1 and yet here he is just some kind of psychic remote control for acting out the desires of other characters. The only reason he's there is to explain why he's working with liquid in mgs1, but really you don't need that because he's part of a mercenary squad, liquid could've just hired them.

True, I'm not debating that, and I'm not saying Mantis deserves any kind of award for his role in MGSV, I do however appreciate the unexpected background on the character (And to some degree, I'm supporting the thought that it does make -sense-, understanding this not as a logical approach to the character's persona but rather as an insight into the character's past and his relationship with Liquid).
Last edited by Bite; Mar 28, 2016 @ 7:46am
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Date Posted: Mar 27, 2016 @ 3:24pm
Posts: 11