Why did Miller join the Fox Hound after the events of MGSV?

[Damokles]

i still don't understand that,i mean what would make him join what's supposed to be the enemy of his ''dream'' (aside from his hatred toward BB)?
didn't he mention that he'll support the phantom boss in the cassette ?

[mdesaleah]

Did you see the secret ending after the credits of the true ending?

[Holografix]

(Metal Gear MSX)
Miller joins BB's Foxhound to train Solid.
BB sends Solid against Venom.
Solid defeats Venom.
I believe that Miller is a traitor and betrays Venom. But that's just my theory.


(Metal Gear Solid)
Ocelot and Eli (Liquid) team-up.
Liquid kills Miller.

The most important thing in Metal Gear is Loyalty to the Mission as spoken by The Boss aka The Joy to Naked in Snake Eater.

[abcd]

His involvement in the MSF was coercive, and he never quite let that go. Pretty cynical guy tbh, despite all his lofty ideals.

Probably already considered himself dead once he pulled the pin. Everything after that was commitment. Makes him an interesting counterpoint to Ocelot, who is just as committed but has his heel and face setup the other way around.

[Damokles]

Originally posted by tausoldier:

His involvement in the MSF was coercive, and he never quite let that go. Pretty cynical guy tbh, despite all his lofty ideals.

Probably already considered himself dead once he pulled the pin. Everything after that was commitment. Makes him an interesting counterpoint to Ocelot, who is just as committed but has his heel and face setup the other way around.

good analysis,i've always thought Miller was portrayed as the strategic leader but he showed some serious lack of self-restrain when it comes to his drive for revenge.
I still think he's a great character that him and Ocelot deserve their own kind of game.

[conradkurze]

Well he mentioned he will be with Diamond Dogs just as long as it benefits him. So basically he betrayed them in advance the second he knew about Venom Snake.

Which is understandable, since in the end of Chapter 1 he says that revenge did not brought him peace or satisfaction. So, the only thing left is to serve his friend and symbol. Who turns out to betray him as well.

But there's still missing story links after MGS V, since it was unfinished. I never understood, how Venom Snake become the evil guy, since he's basically a hero in Phantom Pain. They show the beginning of transformation, killing his comrades, seeing Skull face, a Demon in reflection. Shrapnel in the brain didn't help either i guess. But still, its obvious some character development is mising.

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by conradkurze:

how Venom Snake become the evil guy, since he's basically a hero in Phantom Pain. They show the beginning of transformation, killing his comrades, seeing Skull face, a Demon in reflection. Shrapnel in the brain didn't help either i guess. But still, its obvious some character development is mising.

His entire motivation was just revenge. That’s pretty evil to me.

[Damokles]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Originally posted by conradkurze:

how Venom Snake become the evil guy, since he's basically a hero in Phantom Pain. They show the beginning of transformation, killing his comrades, seeing Skull face, a Demon in reflection. Shrapnel in the brain didn't help either i guess. But still, its obvious some character development is mising.

His entire motivation was just revenge. That’s pretty evil to me.

Not really,if you've seen how Venom reacted in certain situations,it'll appear to you that he doesn't really seek revenge (or not as much as Miller).
Also,really?,seeking revenge is an evil thing?, thought MGS (and Kojima) is more than a silly good vs evil conflict

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by Damokles:

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

His entire motivation was just revenge. That’s pretty evil to me.

Not really,if you've seen how Venom reacted in certain situations,it'll appear to you that he doesn't really seek revenge (or not as much as Miller).
Also,really?,seeking revenge is an evil thing?, thought MGS (and Kojima) is more than a silly good vs evil conflict

It’s how he seeked revenge. If you listened to the dialogue you can tell he didn’t really care about his base, he just wanted revenge. And when he gets it, he becomes empty and with no motivation. Until he learns he was just a puppet the entire time

[Damokles]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Originally posted by Damokles:

Not really,if you've seen how Venom reacted in certain situations,it'll appear to you that he doesn't really seek revenge (or not as much as Miller).
Also,really?,seeking revenge is an evil thing?, thought MGS (and Kojima) is more than a silly good vs evil conflict

It’s how he seeked revenge. If you listened to the dialogue you can tell he didn’t really care about his base, he just wanted revenge. And when he gets it, he becomes empty and with no motivation. Until he learns he was just a puppet the entire time

But we're talking about Miller here,and Venom didn't actually betray Big Boss and his plan (which he gave him in the cassette),it was miller who betrayed Big Boss.

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by Damokles:

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

It’s how he seeked revenge. If you listened to the dialogue you can tell he didn’t really care about his base, he just wanted revenge. And when he gets it, he becomes empty and with no motivation. Until he learns he was just a puppet the entire time

But we're talking about Miller here,and Venom didn't actually betray Big Boss and his plan (which he gave him in the cassette),it was miller who betrayed Big Boss.

Yes. Venom just accepted his role, Miller and Ocelot planned something at the end credits. I’ll have to hear it again. Although Miller wasn’t ever a good guy. Convincing a military legend to create his own illegal nation with nuclear weapons isn’t the sign of a hero.

[Damokles]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Originally posted by Damokles:

But we're talking about Miller here,and Venom didn't actually betray Big Boss and his plan (which he gave him in the cassette),it was miller who betrayed Big Boss.

Yes. Venom just accepted his role, Miller and Ovelot planned something at the end credits. I’ll have to hear it again.

They had a conversation about Venom and Big Boss,it's there where Miller said ''Big Boss can go to hell'' and decided to backup his sons to kill him instead.

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by Damokles:

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Yes. Venom just accepted his role, Miller and Ovelot planned something at the end credits. I’ll have to hear it again.

They had a conversation about Venom and Big Boss,it's there where Miller said ''Big Boss can go to hell'' and decided to backup his sons to kill him instead.

I guess it’s because Big Boss abandoned him with Venom instead.

[conradkurze]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Originally posted by Damokles:

They had a conversation about Venom and Big Boss,it's there where Miller said ''Big Boss can go to hell'' and decided to backup his sons to kill him instead.

I guess it’s because Big Boss abandoned him with Venom instead.

Not only this, but he wasn't told about this plan and had to figure for himself, unlike Ocelot. He lost his limbs, worked his ass off to rebuild PF, to restore their honor and it all turned out to be a hoax, a decoy for the real thing. Who knows, maby he'd play with it, if Boss trusted him with the secret.

Plus the conflict started eairlier, with Venom multiple times rejecting Miller advices in favor of Ocelots or his own - saving Quiet (which technically was a mistake, since she was an assassin after all), using Walking Gears, bringing children, banishing Huey instead of execution.

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Originally posted by Damokles:

Not really,if you've seen how Venom reacted in certain situations,it'll appear to you that he doesn't really seek revenge (or not as much as Miller).
Also,really?,seeking revenge is an evil thing?, thought MGS (and Kojima) is more than a silly good vs evil conflict

It’s how he seeked revenge. If you listened to the dialogue you can tell he didn’t really care about his base, he just wanted revenge. And when he gets it, he becomes empty and with no motivation. Until he learns he was just a puppet the entire time

Well, there is not that much Vemom speeks at all, like he didn't care much about anything. Though it combines good with head trauma and being a different man...
But during the low morale cutscene it looks like he cared about his soldiers, also during the ourbreak and funeral. Protected them from Quiet too.

Also, i don't think he would mind being puppet at all. He basically sacrifised himself for Big Boss, and in reward became his idol. He seemed quite enthusiastic at the ending.

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by conradkurze:

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

I guess it’s because Big Boss abandoned him with Venom instead.

Not only this, but he wasn't told about this plan and had to figure for himself, unlike Ocelot. He lost his limbs, worked his ass off to rebuild PF, to restore their honor and it all turned out to be a hoax, a decoy for the real thing. Who knows, maby he'd play with it, if Boss trusted him with the secret.

Plus the conflict started eairlier, with Venom multiple times rejecting Miller advices in favor of Ocelots or his own - saving Quiet (which technically was a mistake, since she was an assassin after all), using Walking Gears, bringing children, banishing Huey instead of execution.

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

It’s how he seeked revenge. If you listened to the dialogue you can tell he didn’t really care about his base, he just wanted revenge. And when he gets it, he becomes empty and with no motivation. Until he learns he was just a puppet the entire time

Well, there is not that much Vemom speeches at all, like he didn't care much about anything. Though it combines good with head trauma and being a different man...
But during the low morale cutscene it looks like he cared about his soldiers, also during the ourbreak and funeral. Protected them from Quiet.

Also, i don't think he would mind being puppet at all. He basically sacrifised himself for Big Boss, and in reward became his idol. He seemed quite enthusiastic at the ending.

I took the ending as him realizing he was a puppet and accepting it. Which is why he walks into a fog. The only missing piece is what caused him to remember his role, the rest is continued in Metal Gear MSX. The ending is the new beginning.

[conradkurze]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Originally posted by conradkurze:

The only missing piece is what caused him to remember his role, the rest is continued in Metal Gear MSX. The ending is the new beginning.

Mm, the cassete tape "From The Man Who Sold The World"? Pobably sent personally by Big Boss?