why did big boss become bad (spoilers)

[shtaklef]

big boss was always the good guy from metal gear 3 until mgs 5: ground zeros. in the end of phantom pain he tells venom snake to take his place as big boss so he has the time to make a military nation called outer heaven

in metal gear 1 which is the next game in the time line big boss is the leader of fox hound and he sends solid snake to inflitrate outer heaven and stop them. in the end of the game solid snake meets venom snake and kills him. after that big boss betrays foxhound and solid snake learns that big boss is the true leader of outer heaven

the thing i dont understand is why did big boss become the bad guy in between the end of phantom pain and beginning of metal gear 1?

[Sekkuar666]

Originally posted by shtaklef:

big boss was always the good guy

If you're trying to tell "good guy" from "bad guy", this means you didn't understand ANYTHING from any metal gear.

[Ragingsword]

I have'nt played any other metal gear game besides MGSV GZ and TPP but I think he turned bad because the men he lost in GZ, I could be wrong though

[f.]

MGSV should've explained that but nope.

[SirSovereign]

You guys are extremely confused and MGSV DID explain the missing storyline, but it was in the cassettes. In MGSV, you don't play as Big Boss himselve. You are Venom Snake. You were the medic on the helicopter with Big Boss. During your coma, they performed plastic surgery on you to make you look like Big Boss. Big Boss was in fact Ishmael. The patient who helped you against Quiet and the Man On Fire in the hospital. THAT's why he didn't know the languages and felt like he needed to relearn things. Big Boss asked Ocelot to take care of Venom Snake and hypnotize him into thinking that he was actually Big Boss while Big Boss was getting Outer Heaven ready. After that, Big Boss becomes the leader of FOXHOUND, but is also the leader of Outer Heaven (but no one knows that) and when the U.S. finds out that Outer Heaven was also building a metal gear, they wanted FOXHOUND to destroy it. Big Boss was never the "bad guy", the entire story was forever a cold war.. filled with countries and privatized militaries fighting eachother with espionage and technologies.



Still pissed that Tretij takes the parasite out of Eli, but I'm still sittting here... Listening to Quiet's cassettes.

[SirSovereign]

Basically.. Everyone in the entire series is an Anti-Hero. Even Eva and Quiet.

[f.]

Originally posted by Phresh:

You guys are extremely confused and MGSV DID explain the missing storyline, but it was in the cassettes. In MGSV, you don't play as Big Boss himselve. You are Venom Snake. You were the medic on the helicopter with Big Boss. During your coma, they performed plastic surgery on you to make you look like Big Boss. Big Boss was in fact Ishmael. The patient who helped you against Quiet and the Man On Fire in the hospital. THAT's why he didn't know the languages and felt like he needed to relearn things. Big Boss asked Ocelot to take care of Venom Snake and hypnotize him into thinking that he was actually Big Boss while Big Boss was getting Outer Heaven ready. After that, Big Boss becomes the leader of FOXHOUND, but is also the leader of Outer Heaven (but no one knows that) and when the U.S. finds out that Outer Heaven was also building a metal gear, they wanted FOXHOUND to destroy it. Big Boss was never the "bad guy", the entire story was forever a cold war.. filled with countries and privatized militaries fighting eachother with espionage and technologies.



Still pissed that Tretij takes the parasite out of Eli, but I'm still sittting here... Listening to Quiet's cassettes.

Yeah, because wanting a world of constant war just for his nation of soldiers to exist and kidnapping people so the world can bow down for his nation along with his nuclear weapons is not bad at all. Big Boss and The Patriots became the same thing after a while, but they were to occupied fighting each other to realize that. Big Boss wanted a world of war but Solid Snake stopped him then The Patriots did the same thing after a while with the whole war economy. Big Boss admits that in MGS4. Solid Snake was the one that followed The Boss's will even though he didn't knew nothing about that. Big Boss lost track of everything he believed and didn't realized it he was fighting against the people that had the same objective anyway, but Kojima never bother to explained why instead he gave us THE PHANTOM PAIN THE CUT CONTENT DO YOU FEEL IT? HUR HUR

[SirSovereign]

He was never fighting AGAINST anyone besides the Soviets in the real Cold War, and the war in Afghan. FOXHOUND versus Outer Heaven was literally him against himself. He was born and raised in combat. He was the best soldier to ever live. That's why they used his genes for future soldiers and why Solid was so good. He took over FOXHOUND to build the other metal gear and to delay Solid from destroying his. There is no "bad guys" and "good guys" in Metal Gear. Like I said, everyone is an anti-hero. They're all doing what they believe is right in their own perspectives.

[SirSovereign]

He did NOT want eternal war. That is what the Patriots AI wanted everyone to believe. It was a lie. Outer Heaven wasn't supposed to be a place to make an undefeatable army and such. It was to rescue soldiers from being puppets of their militaries. Big Boss stole and kept all the nuclear power to stop the Philosophers and their countries from having that power. The Metal Gear he was building was to protect them and deter any threat or war that would start.

Solid Snake served the Patriots. Unknowingly, he was just helping them keep the power structure that kept those soldiers as puppets and helped the Philosophers (remember what The Boss said in MGS3?) hold their power over the world. That's why is was so important for Big Boss to tell him the truth, and to tell him that he was his own son.

If you look at it from the right perspective, Big Boss was the greatest man to live and he tried fighting the powers that really run the world. Solid was the worst for killing him and stopping the revolution.. Look at it in another way, and Big Boss was the worst. Using child soldiers and stockpiling weapons and armies. Solid was a hero because he stopped the world's number one "terrorist".

See? No one is a bad guy. No one is a good guy.

[Salty?!]

Sounds like some of you need to visit Portable Ops again.

The reason why Big Boss is evil is because he has a different view of The Boss's Will from Zero.

Zero thought The Boss wanted a World without Borders. In other words, a unifed world under the eye of a single power. He tried to do this with the SOP system, which tried to filter digital information (See MGS2) and control wars and weapons (See MGS4).

Big Boss thought The Boss wanted a World for Soldiers, where soldiers would not be used as tools of the government anymore and could do whatever they wanted. He did this by starting Outer Haven (See Metal Gear), a nuclear-backed mercenary nation. Of course, soldiers running around starting wars is bad.

Both of them were wrong of course, and The Boss wanted everyone to let the world be and live peacefully together. The only one who really fufilled what The Boss wanted was Solid Snake. His anti-metal gear NGO Phillanthropy's motto is "Let the World be".

I should know all this, I'm a 10 year vet!

[SirSovereign]

Originally posted by Salty?!:

The only one who really fufilled what The Boss wanted was Solid Snake.

Solid snake was puppet at the time.. To the Philosophers. If you think the Big Boss was running around and starting wars, then you need to replay the first games. From MGS3 to Peace Walker, Big Boss had a lot of things to build up revenge and hate for the Philosophers and leaders of countries.

Big Boss is not evil.

[Salty?!]

Originally posted by Phresh:

Solid snake was puppet at the time.. To the Philosophers.

Remember that by the events of MGS3, all the members of The Philosophers are dead, and they sure didn't have an AI system in the 70's. The only think that comes from The Philosophers is the Philosophers Legacy, money which Big Boss uses to make MSF and Outer Haven.

If you mean the Patriots, remember that Snake was against the Patriots since MGS2. He was definitely an unwilling pawn to them in MGS1, I will agree with you there. But he seperated from FOXHOUND and started his own NGO with Otacon before the events of MGS2.

Big Boss is not evil, but his methods were. He wanted to keep war alive for his soldiers, free from political nonsense. This is not different from the Proxy wars that the SOP system started in MGS4.

[f.]

Originally posted by Salty?!:

Originally posted by Phresh:

Solid snake was puppet at the time.. To the Philosophers.

Remember that by the events of MGS3, all the members of The Philosophers are dead, and they sure didn't have an AI system in the 70's. The only think that comes from The Philosophers is the Philosophers Legacy, money which Big Boss uses to make MSF and Outer Haven.

If you mean the Patriots, remember that Snake was against the Patriots since MGS2. He was definitely an unwilling pawn to them in MGS1, I will agree with you there. But he seperated from FOXHOUND and started his own NGO with Otacon before the events of MGS2.

Big Boss is not evil, but his methods were. He wanted to keep war alive for his soldiers, free from political nonsense. This is not different from the Proxy wars that the SOP system started in MGS4.

Yep.

Big Boss became a mad man, Peace Walker explains that, he gave up on his mentor because she wanted peace and he wanted war/conflict because that's the only thing he knew.
There's no way a guy that wants war and have his own nuclear nation so the world can be afraid of him be a good guy. Only for his own greedy beliefs. But then again Big Boss is this charismatic leader that fools even the player.

[SirSovereign]

Ehhhh... the Philosophers are still alive throughout the entire thing. Even after Big Boss takes control of the Legacy in 1970. The CIA and DoD were part of them and having a power struggle. Zero and Ocelot actually reformed them, and when Big Boss destroyed the Intercontinental Ballistic Metal Gear. Ocelot killed the DCI, and Zero ended the Philosophers and started the new American Philosophers. The Patriots was literally just just a rebirth of them since it had agents from America, Russia, China, and Zero was from the British SAS.

Looking online for this:
In MGS3, they say they've all been dead since the 1930s, in MGS2 they say the the Wiseman Committee had been dead for "around 100 years" which would put it back in around 1909. In MGS4, Roy Cambells states "The data we got from the Arsenal Gear was a load of crap. Twelve founders who've been dead for a hundred years... Give me a break."

In MGS3 only eleven members of the Wisemen's Committee is shown. All men. A woman is shown in MGS2, and in MGS4, 12 men are shown. Supposedly MGS4 and some of the series also hints the that Kenedy's assassination was pulled off by the Philosophers after the Cuban Missile Crisis.

And the Big Boss did not want to keep war alive.. Again, that's what the Patriots wanted everyone to believe. That's what they tell you throughout the game because you're Solid Snake. You're a puppet as Solid Snake until he fakes his own death.

[f.]

Originally posted by Phresh:

And the Big Boss did not want to keep war alive.. Again, that's what the Patriots wanted everyone to believe. That's what they tell you throughout the game because you're Solid Snake. You're a puppet as Solid Snake until he fakes his own death.

He admits on Peace Walker that he is nothing but a weapon, the only thing he knows it's fighting and to fight there's need to be war or conflict. He makes his nation on that premise. He rescues kids just to train them for war and make him killers and not to live a normal life like Miller attempts on MGSV.
Watch the dialogue between Big Boss and Snake in the end of Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake. He admits that, he believes on his "system" which is very similar to the war economy from MGS4.
Solid Snake was a puppet but The Patriots became the voice of reason anyway in this period of time. After the IA went faulty is when Snake decided to part his own way since the IA was starting to show the same methods as Big Boss in a different context.

[REPENT]

Big Boss was no good guy by the end of Ground Zeroes. In Peace Walker he accepts a child soldier into his army and runs around on the beach with a 13 year old girl. Snake takes pictures of the girl.