Quiet is Big Mama? SPOILERS!

[abcd]

I'm getting tired of putting this off. There might be some spoilers here, but it's mostly safe.

Here's some simple points:

Big Mama was originally planned to be brunette, but had her hair color changed to blonde at the last minute.

Skin tone is completely different. It's possible that she just lost that 'glow' that she and Ocelot had over time, but Big Mama's skin looks like it was already a different shade when it was young esp. compared to Ocelot.

Similar standing poses to Quiet, especially in promotional material.

The thematic significance of getting stabbed in the same place as EVA did, her deep affection for Venom, and her indifference to gunshot wounds and flames really seems a lot more like Quiet than EVA. Honestly that whole scene with the biomort just makes way, way more sense assuming that they're the same person. Ocelot's reaction too, considering EVA is probably his twin sister and that the AI was using Quiet as some sort of self-insert fan character so she could hang out with Snake, but that's a different post.

No bra, esposed cleavage. Quiet. Needs airflow, but is clearly good enough to get by with very little by now.

Voice differences, but I haven't done any background checking on that.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Holografix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWkdEs71-iA
the quote on the LP is:
No one can see me, no one knows me
All men are deaf, no ears disclose me
- Taras Shevchenko

Originally posted by Seamus:

You've yet to prove there are two. You say Naked/Big Boss was the second, yet, the "mort" part of that implies he's braindead. Being in a medically induced coma caused by the patriots is NOT brain death.

Big Mama explains what a bio-mort is when she shows Solidus to Solid Snake: "His body is alive, but his consciousness is locked away by nanomachines. So technically speaking, he's not really brain dead." So the 'mort' part does not imply brain death. And being in a medically induced coma caused by the PATRIOTS is not brain death.

The real Big Boss was released when the PATRIOT AI's were destroyed. While the PATRIOT AI was active he was a 'bio-mort' because his consciousness and will were suppressed by nanomachines. So there are 2 bio-morts. One we see (Third Sun) and one we don't (Naked Sin).

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Only one Bio-mort is ever shown to us in MGS4, and it is Solidus. When Big Boss says that he was rebuilt from Solidus, they meant through transplants and surgery between Big Boss' near-dead corpse after the events of Metal Gear 2, and Solidus' bio-mort after Metal Gear Solid 2.

Naked Snake/Big Boss can't have been a Bio-Mort because he wouldn't have been able to walk to the Cemetary to talk to Solid Snake.

Eva rebuilds Big Boss' body from Liquid and Solidus. So he isn't exactly in the same shape as seen in the cemetery. He was trapped inside the PATRIOT AI since he was powering it while in a nano-machine medically induced coma. Essentially, he was a bio-mort. There was some time that passed between the chapters Old Sun and Naked Sin in Guns of the Patriots, time enough for Eva to rebuild Big Boss.

There is no evidence proving your theory that Big Boss being in a coma is identical to being in a biomort. Never at any port is Big Boss/Naked Snake ever referenced as being a biomort.

Brain Death =/= Coma

Biomort was a term used exclusively to describe Solidus, as he was effectively completely dead, but his body was being preserved and maintained after his death. He was brain dead, but machines kept his blood pumping and kept his body from decomposing after death.

It is also never explicitly stated that Big Boss was ever used as one of the A.I.'s. And, if he were as your theory suggests, he couldn't be a biomort, because biomorts don't have the brainpower to function as an A.I.. Solidus being our one example of a biomort in the series, was completely brain dead as apart of his condition of being a biomort. He can't both have his mind suppressed in a coma state AND act as an A.I. that has to make decisions, that wouldn't be much of an A.I.

Biomorts in Policenauts as well were described as the same condition as Solidus, completely brain dead but kept from decomposing. Big Boss was not brain dead, he was kept in a coma.

[Holografix]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Originally posted by Holografix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWkdEs71-iA
the quote on the LP is:
No one can see me, no one knows me
All men are deaf, no ears disclose me
- Taras Shevchenko


Big Mama explains what a bio-mort is when she shows Solidus to Solid Snake: "His body is alive, but his consciousness is locked away by nanomachines. So technically speaking, he's not really brain dead." So the 'mort' part does not imply brain death. And being in a medically induced coma caused by the PATRIOTS is not brain death.

The real Big Boss was released when the PATRIOT AI's were destroyed. While the PATRIOT AI was active he was a 'bio-mort' because his consciousness and will were suppressed by nanomachines. So there are 2 bio-morts. One we see (Third Sun) and one we don't (Naked Sin).



Eva rebuilds Big Boss' body from Liquid and Solidus. So he isn't exactly in the same shape as seen in the cemetery. He was trapped inside the PATRIOT AI since he was powering it while in a nano-machine medically induced coma. Essentially, he was a bio-mort. There was some time that passed between the chapters Old Sun and Naked Sin in Guns of the Patriots, time enough for Eva to rebuild Big Boss.

There is no evidence proving your theory that Big Boss being in a coma is identical to being in a biomort. Never at any port is Big Boss/Naked Snake ever referenced as being a biomort.

Brain Death =/= Coma

Biomort was a term used exclusively to describe Solidus, as he was effectively completely dead, but his body was being preserved and maintained after his death. He was brain dead, but machines kept his blood pumping and kept his body from decomposing after death.

It is also never explicitly stated that Big Boss was ever used as one of the A.I.'s. And, if he were as your theory suggests, he couldn't be a biomort, because biomorts don't have the brainpower to function as an A.I.. Solidus being our one example of a biomort in the series, was completely brain dead as apart of his condition of being a biomort. He can't both have his mind suppressed in a coma state AND act as an A.I. that has to make decisions, that wouldn't be much of an A.I.

Biomorts in Policenauts as well were described as the same condition as Solidus, completely brain dead but kept from decomposing. Big Boss was not brain dead, he was kept in a coma.

Didn't you read the quote I posted from Big Mama?
"His body is alive, but his consciousness is locked away by nanomachines. So technically speaking, he's not really brain dead."

[Rio Turbio]

no

quiet is sniper wolf

[abcd]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Never at any port is Big Boss/Naked Snake ever referenced as being a biomort.

Originally posted by Holografix:

"His body is alive, but his consciousness is locked away by nanomachines. So technically speaking, he's not really brain dead."

Big Mama: Snake... I have to apologize. The three vans that came out with us were decoys. The real one is floating down the river, headed downstream.

Here, I ran into this one last night trying to find images of Biomort. It seemed important at the time:



https://youtu.be/CfAHlnnOvSU?t=22m14s

...you're kidding me, steam won't embed time codes correctly. 22m 14s.

As you can see, there's a van with a biomort in it. They immediately roll out, leaving no time to do a switch. Meaning that a different biomort was in the van than the one on the boat. Also at 22:19 it slowly pans over the body, showing that it is missing its right eye. 22:14 shows a clear view of the left eye, which still has a skinless lid attached to it. That's not Solidus.

also,

Originally posted by Holografix:

The drug Ishamel injected into Venom was Digoxin not Diazepam. It is made from digitalis (foxglove) and used to treat atrial flutter and heart failure.

Oops! I meant Digoxin. Really bad with names of pharmaceuticals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digoxin#Mechanisms_of_action

"Overall, the heart rate is decreased while blood pressure is increased, resulting in a net increase in stroke volume, leading to increased tissue perfusion."

Turns out post-coma symptoms are nebulous and difficult to define though. It's exteremly unlikely but apparently theoretically possible that Venom could have relearned how to walk that quickly.

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

She looks nothing like Big Mama, sounds nothing like Big Mama, acts nothing like Big Mama. Then Big Mama still shows up in MGS4 all those years later, not a superhuman, and looking like a naturally older version of how she looked in 1964.

Big Mama does not look 74. Solid Snake looks like he's 74. Big Mama looks to be in her late 50's at the most, but more like her early 50's. Hardly any wrinkles, excellent complexion, lots of muscle mass. If Quiet was 19 in 1984 then she'd be 49 in 2014, which is a much more reasonable approximation of Big Mama's apparent age. She's otherwise identical, but so is Venom to Big Boss.

30 years is plenty of time to change ones personality. Heck, Ocelot manages to do it every five minutes. And as for the superhuman powers, if Quiet just puts some clothes on she becomes totally normal.

When she pins that Scarab and shoots it at 24:18, why are there glimpses of the AI 'recognzing' her as EVA the same way that it 'recognizes' Ocelot as Liquid?

[Holografix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwZvjDlTGo8
"Thank you so much!
and again may we say Welcome to the lovely Maisonette room
Up comes a great, great standard -- the one and only Richard Rogers
and we'd like to give you our conception of it
and it goes this way..."

Originally posted by Themself:

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Never at any port is Big Boss/Naked Snake ever referenced as being a biomort.

Originally posted by Holografix:

"His body is alive, but his consciousness is locked away by nanomachines. So technically speaking, he's not really brain dead."

Big Mama: Snake... I have to apologize. The three vans that came out with us were decoys. The real one is floating down the river, headed downstream.

https://youtu.be/CfAHlnnOvSU?t=22m14s
@22m 14s
As you can see, there's a van with a biomort in it. They immediately roll out, leaving no time to do a switch. Meaning that a different biomort was in the van than the one on the boat. Also at 22:19 it slowly pans over the body, showing that it is missing its right eye. 22:14 shows a clear view of the left eye, which still has a skinless lid attached to it. That's not Solidus.

Well, going with your theory -- the bio-mort @22:19 looks like Naked Snake and not Solidus since there is a dark shadow where his left eye would be, not his right. This means that Eva had both bio-morts in her possession by the time Solid Snake meets with her. And she didn't reveal which bio-mort was which to Solid in the same way that she 'acted' when Liquid burned Solidus' bio-mort and not Naked's.

But what I propose is that the bio-mort in the van @22:19 is actually Solidus and that Naked's bio-mort is released when Solid uploads the virus after the microwave chamber. We never see Naked's bio-mort, only hear about it when he describes how he was trapped by the PATRIOT AI to Solid in the cemetery.

Either way there are 2 bio-morts.

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

She looks nothing like Big Mama, sounds nothing like Big Mama, acts nothing like Big Mama. Then Big Mama still shows up in MGS4 all those years later, not a superhuman, and looking like a naturally older version of how she looked in 1964.

Originally posted by Themself:

Big Mama does not look 74. Solid Snake looks like he's 74. Big Mama looks to be in her late 50's at the most, but more like her early 50's. Hardly any wrinkles, excellent complexion, lots of muscle mass. If Quiet was 19 in 1984 then she'd be 49 in 2014, which is a much more reasonable approximation of Big Mama's apparent age. She's otherwise identical, but so is Venom to Big Boss.

Given her parasite therapy, the parasites could change Quiet's appearance to match that of Big Mama's in Guns of the Patriots.

Originally posted by Themself:

When she pins that Scarab and shoots it at 24:18, why are there glimpses of the AI 'recognzing' her as EVA the same way that it 'recognizes' Ocelot as Liquid?

If you haven't played Guns of the Patriots, during certain parts of the cutscenes an [x] button prompt appears and when you press [x] you can see faint images of past games overlaying the cutscene. This is what is going on in the youtube recording.

[AGA | prinnyuber]

Originally posted by DarkKamu:

no

quiet is sniper wolf

Then Solid Snake would have died even before facing off with Liquid on a hind D, Vulcan Raven Fight 2, etc. Quiet has the english vocal cord parasite. Sniper Wolf talked english during the cutscenes in the first mgs. Guess what? Everyone talked english around Shadow Moses. MEANING everyone including the Solid Snake, ?Frank Jaeger?, and Otacon would have died a slow and painful death along the base before the foxdie strain kicks in which makes it 100 times worst.

All you guys and theories just to suit your needs is driving me crazy. PLAY MGS 1-4 ALREADY!

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by prinnyuber:

Originally posted by DarkKamu:

no

quiet is sniper wolf

Then Solid Snake would have died even before facing off with Liquid on a hind D, Vulcan Raven Fight 2, etc. Quiet has the english vocal cord parasite. Sniper Wolf talked english during the cutscenes in the first mgs. Guess what? Everyone talked english around Shadow Moses. MEANING everyone including the Solid Snake, ?Frank Jaeger?, and Otacon would have died a slow and painful death along the base before the foxdie strain kicks in which makes it 100 times worst.

All you guys and theories just to suit your needs is driving me crazy. PLAY MGS 1-4 ALREADY!

...Not to mention what happens in A Quiet Exit.

Assuming everyone here isn't worried about spoilers, she speaks english to save Venom's life. One would assume that she later dies from the english strain of parasite she was infected with and intended to use as a weapon.

Originally posted by Themself:

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

She looks nothing like Big Mama, sounds nothing like Big Mama, acts nothing like Big Mama. Then Big Mama still shows up in MGS4 all those years later, not a superhuman, and looking like a naturally older version of how she looked in 1964.

Big Mama does not look 74. Solid Snake looks like he's 74. Big Mama looks to be in her late 50's at the most, but more like her early 50's. Hardly any wrinkles, excellent complexion, lots of muscle mass. If Quiet was 19 in 1984 then she'd be 49 in 2014, which is a much more reasonable approximation of Big Mama's apparent age. She's otherwise identical, but so is Venom to Big Boss.

30 years is plenty of time to change ones personality. Heck, Ocelot manages to do it every five minutes. And as for the superhuman powers, if Quiet just puts some clothes on she becomes totally normal.

When she pins that Scarab and shoots it at 24:18, why are there glimpses of the AI 'recognzing' her as EVA the same way that it 'recognizes' Ocelot as Liquid?

It doesn't matter how old Eva looks to you, she was born in 1936. She was 78 when she dies in MGS4 in 2014. Eva would've been 48 in 1984. Quiet is obviously not 48 years old in MGS5, which is set during 1984.

And honestly I have to say you have a poor judgement of one's age based on their skin complexion. Big Mama looks good for her age, but she has a lot of signs of her age.

If Quiet puts clothes on she doesn't "become totally normal", she starts suffocating. The reason she is "normal" is because she can't breathe enough to use her abilities. She's usually in pain whenever she's clothed.

And she had camoflauge, she could change her skin pigment and apparently reflect light. I don't see why anyone would think that she can change her body's shape or look like anything but her body's natural shape, as she -never- demonstates anything beyond turning invisible or changing the color pigments around her eyes.

[abcd]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Assuming everyone here isn't worried about spoilers, she speaks english to save Venom's life. One would assume that she later dies from the english strain of parasite she was infected with and intended to use as a weapon.

Or she got treatment somehow, or wasn't at risk. It's ambiguous.

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

It doesn't matter how old Eva looks to you, she was born in 1936. She was 78 when she dies in MGS4 in 2014. Eva would've been 48 in 1984. Quiet is obviously not 48 years old in MGS5, which is set during 1984.

Originally posted by Themself:

If Quiet was 19 in 1984 then she'd be 49 in 2014

I'm not suggesting that EVA is Quiet. Yet. Her birthplace is potentially consistent with knowing Navajo, but that's the only connection I can see at the moment.

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

And honestly I have to say you have a poor judgement of one's age based on their skin complexion. Big Mama looks good for her age, but she has a lot of signs of her age.

But no spots. No translucence, like you can see on Old Snake's cheeks. Absolutely flawless skin, just a little bit paler and less 'glow'-y than it used to be. No facial wrinkles, not much going on with her cheek-bones, barely any nasal-labial lines. Short earlobes. No eye-wrinkles except for some tiny crow's feet, and some eyeliner which makes her sockets look much more sunken than they really are. Her face is so smooth she almost looks like she's wearing a mask, which she could be with that choker. She shows absolutely none of the signs of having aged past middle-age, and the only real sign of that is the loss of fat and muscle mass around her neck and shoulders area.

If Quiet puts clothes on she doesn't "become totally normal", she starts suffocating. The reason she is "normal" is because she can't breathe enough to use her abilities. She's usually in pain whenever she's clothed.

One may find a balance of breathing vs activity level in a variety of adverse conditions. That's a part of the idea of things like high-altitude training. If she didn't have to run/jump around at super-speed and turn invisible, she could probably eventually condition herself to wear some unusually-revealing-yet-normative clothing. If I'm not mistaken, just taking her pants off halfway is enough to let her do flying piledrivers. So her very sheer, low-cut top combined with a half-open quilted jacket could be stuffy yet workable, especially since the exposed area is directly over her heart.

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

And she had camoflauge, she could change her skin pigment and apparently reflect light. I don't see why anyone would think that she can change her body's shape or look like anything but her body's natural shape, as she -never- demonstates anything beyond turning invisible or changing the color pigments around her eyes.

She could have just gotten plastic surgery like Venom did. Or be wearing a camo-mask. You have to remember, most of Snake's "secret tech" is just crap Otacon pirated the blueprints for on the internet and then made at the Nomad's workstation out of spare and/or stolen parts. He is frequently somewhat embarrassed to admit this. But, that's how accessible Patriot technology has gotten by then.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by Themself:

She could have just gotten plastic surgery

This. We already know Eva's tits are fake from the info provided in MGS3. I doubt she'd be above additional surgery. Big Mama is NOT Quiet. Jesus christ.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Themself:

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

And she had camoflauge, she could change her skin pigment and apparently reflect light. I don't see why anyone would think that she can change her body's shape or look like anything but her body's natural shape, as she -never- demonstates anything beyond turning invisible or changing the color pigments around her eyes.

She could have just gotten plastic surgery like Venom did. Or be wearing a camo-mask. You have to remember, most of Snake's "secret tech" is just crap Otacon pirated the blueprints for on the internet and then made at the Nomad's workstation out of spare and/or stolen parts. He is frequently somewhat embarrassed to admit this. But, that's how accessible Patriot technology has gotten by then.

Except there is nothing in MGS4 to suggest anything being correct about these crackpot theories.

Eva isn't quiet, there is nothing throughout any of the games that suggests that she is. Considering she's a brand new character that exists only within MGS5's story and background information, they'd have to have made it plenty blunt and obvious that she would've been Eva, if that was the case.

They didn't, because she's not Eva. Nothing ties her to Eva.

[Holografix]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Originally posted by Themself:

She could have just gotten plastic surgery like Venom did. Or be wearing a camo-mask. You have to remember, most of Snake's "secret tech" is just crap Otacon pirated the blueprints for on the internet and then made at the Nomad's workstation out of spare and/or stolen parts. He is frequently somewhat embarrassed to admit this. But, that's how accessible Patriot technology has gotten by then.

Except there is nothing in MGS4 to suggest anything being correct about these crackpot theories.

Eva isn't quiet, there is nothing throughout any of the games that suggests that she is. Considering she's a brand new character that exists only within MGS5's story and background information, they'd have to have made it plenty blunt and obvious that she would've been Eva, if that was the case.

They didn't, because she's not Eva. Nothing ties her to Eva.

You still aren't reading the posts @|Paladin|. No one is arguing that Eva is Quiet, the argument is about Big Mama being Quiet.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Holografix:

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Except there is nothing in MGS4 to suggest anything being correct about these crackpot theories.

Eva isn't quiet, there is nothing throughout any of the games that suggests that she is. Considering she's a brand new character that exists only within MGS5's story and background information, they'd have to have made it plenty blunt and obvious that she would've been Eva, if that was the case.

They didn't, because she's not Eva. Nothing ties her to Eva.

You still aren't reading the posts @|Paladin|. No one is arguing that Eva is Quiet, the argument is about Big Mama being Quiet.

Eva is Big Mama. Saying that Quiet is Big Mama is also saying that Quiet is assuming Eva's identity.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by Holografix:

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Except there is nothing in MGS4 to suggest anything being correct about these crackpot theories.

Eva isn't quiet, there is nothing throughout any of the games that suggests that she is. Considering she's a brand new character that exists only within MGS5's story and background information, they'd have to have made it plenty blunt and obvious that she would've been Eva, if that was the case.

They didn't, because she's not Eva. Nothing ties her to Eva.

You still aren't reading the posts @|Paladin|. No one is arguing that Eva is Quiet, the argument is about Big Mama being Quiet.

♥♥♥♥♥ sake. Eva is Big Mama.

[Seifer]

no quiet is chico

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Piggsy:

no quiet is chico

The truth is finally revealed.