Quiet is Big Mama? SPOILERS!

[abcd]

I'm getting tired of putting this off. There might be some spoilers here, but it's mostly safe.

Here's some simple points:

Big Mama was originally planned to be brunette, but had her hair color changed to blonde at the last minute.

Skin tone is completely different. It's possible that she just lost that 'glow' that she and Ocelot had over time, but Big Mama's skin looks like it was already a different shade when it was young esp. compared to Ocelot.

Similar standing poses to Quiet, especially in promotional material.

The thematic significance of getting stabbed in the same place as EVA did, her deep affection for Venom, and her indifference to gunshot wounds and flames really seems a lot more like Quiet than EVA. Honestly that whole scene with the biomort just makes way, way more sense assuming that they're the same person. Ocelot's reaction too, considering EVA is probably his twin sister and that the AI was using Quiet as some sort of self-insert fan character so she could hang out with Snake, but that's a different post.

No bra, esposed cleavage. Quiet. Needs airflow, but is clearly good enough to get by with very little by now.

Voice differences, but I haven't done any background checking on that.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[redeyedraven]

Themself původně napsal:

redeyedraven původně napsal:

MGS4 spelled pretty much everything out for the audience though, and Big Mama is an elderly Eva. Eva is *not* Quiet.

I respect your opinion. But if you geniunely want me to agree with you, it'll take a little more than that.

A fact is a fact, wether you agree with it or not doesn't matter at all.

[abcd]

redeyedraven původně napsal:

A fact is a fact, wether you agree with it or not doesn't matter at all.

Indeed, so...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/021/949/a40.gif

And, actually, just to be petulant: "There are no facts. Only interpretations."

[Diyavol]

Quiet not Eva/Big Mama. Also Eva/Big Mama is mother of Liquid Snake and Solid Snake; not Solidus Snake's.

[abcd]

Diyavol původně napsal:

Quiet not Eva/Big Mama. Also Eva/Big Mama is mother of Liquid Snake and Solid Snake; not Solidus Snake's.

Ok, so whom borne Solidus?

Not that I am willing to disbelieve, necessarily. Please, tell me more.

[Diyavol]

Themself původně napsal:

Diyavol původně napsal:

Quiet not Eva/Big Mama. Also Eva/Big Mama is mother of Liquid Snake and Solid Snake; not Solidus Snake's.

Ok, so whom borne Solidus?

Not that I am willing to disbelieve, necessarily. Please, tell me more.

There is no exact information about Solidus Snake's mother. Also Eva and Solidus's mather are carrying mothers, not biological.

[Seamus]

Diyavol původně napsal:

Themself původně napsal:

Ok, so whom borne Solidus?

Not that I am willing to disbelieve, necessarily. Please, tell me more.

There is no exact information about Solidus Snake's mother. Also Eva and Solidus's mather are carrying mothers, not biological.

Right, right. Either way, the vegetable is Solidus.

[lPaladinl]

Themself původně napsal:

lPaladinl původně napsal:

Quiet isn't BIg Mama, their age doesn't make sense, Quiet is younger than Big Mama was when she first met Naked Snake. You also see Big Mama, aka Eva, in MGS4 and she clearly isn't a modified superhuman like Quiet is.

Quiet could pass as normal if she didn't do anything weird. Quiet is 19 in 1984, Big Mama looks to be in her late 40's-50's in 2014. I get the feeling she has a similar voice quality too, but I haven't listened to them side-by-side yet.

Holografix původně napsal:

Like Quiet is a big mama? Or Quiet is actually Eva aka Big Mama?

EVA disappears in Hanoi and never surfaces again. Quiet takes her place, and becomes Big Mama. After some surgery.

Seamus původně napsal:

No. It's not Venom. It's Solidus. It's always been Solidus. Look closer. Big Boss/Venom lost the same eye. Solidus lost the opposite one. The corpse is missing the wrong eye.

hrrm, got the feeling it was revealed somewhere that the body was actually the body-double. I know the double came up in the game somewhere, but I might be getting 5 out of 4 here I admit. was putting off playing all of 4 again just to resolve this.

kinda strange that the eyeball is intact though, and that the rest of the body is burned. they could have just put somebody else's eyeball in a body that was missing both.

Big Mama was 28 when Big Boss met her in 1964 (Born 1936). Quiet is younger than 48 in 1984. Do the math.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/EVA

Big Mama was 74 in MGS4.

She looks nothing like Big Mama, sounds nothing like Big Mama, acts nothing like Big Mama. Then Big Mama still shows up in MGS4 all those years later, not a superhuman, and looking like a naturally older version of how she looked in 1964.

The body double -is- Solidus. Solidus is a body double because he is a perfect clone of Big Boss, which is why they use his body to sneak into SOP records, because they needed to pass a DNA scan. Venom has NO DNA connection to Big Boss, because he is not at all related to anyone in the Snake "family". He can't be the bio-mort because the bio-mort was used to fool DNA scans for Big Boss' DNA. There's only ONE person who it could possibly be that is capable of matching Big Boss' DNA, and that's the perfect clone of BIg Boss, which is Solidus.

Not even Solid and Liquid could fool a DNA test looking for Big Boss' DNA, because they're imperfect clones with changes made to their DNA, let alone Venom who isn't even blood related.

[Holografix]

Themself původně napsal:

redeyedraven původně napsal:

MGS4 spelled pretty much everything out for the audience though, and Big Mama is an elderly Eva. Eva is *not* Quiet.

I respect your opinion. But if you geniunely want me to agree with you, it'll take a little more than that.

Excellent.

Themself původně napsal:

redeyedraven původně napsal:

A fact is a fact, wether you agree with it or not doesn't matter at all.

Indeed, so..."There are no facts. Only interpretations."

Correct.
---------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLeakz7eiug
There is indeed a narrative gap concerning Eva's history. Where did she go after Snake Eater? Where was she during the Peacewalker tapes? Who was the surrogate for Solidus?

There were 2 bio-morts in Guns of the Patriots. A real and fake one. I tend to agree that Venom had either Patriot AI authentication or he was able to bypass the network completely. Remember that Venom was Zero's last gift to his friend Jack. A phantom Big Boss from the man who created the Cipher/Patriots. Venom is the proverbial 'Ghost in the Machine.'

Themself původně napsal:

Venom regularly displays superhuman recuperative abilities, albeit at a very low level. Diazepam can't explain the sensory nerves in his legs beginning to work again within a few minutes of injection... as all it does is increase the amount of blood a heart can pump.

The drug Ishamel injected into Venom was Digoxin not Diazepam. It is made from digitalis (foxglove) and used to treat atrial flutter and heart failure. Venom needed to get his heart started back up after his encounter with Quiet. But then again, we don't know if Ishamel used a placebo.

[Seamus]

Holografix původně napsal:

There were 2 bio-morts in Guns of the Patriots.

Citation needed.

[Holografix]

Seamus původně napsal:

Holografix původně napsal:

There were 2 bio-morts in Guns of the Patriots.

Citation needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlmK3w-IAdI
From the Guns of the Patriots gamefaqs game script (https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/926596-metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-patriots/faqs/53154):

Big Mama: It was when I met him that I finally discovered the location of Big Boss. It was in the data he obtained from GW. Together, he and I retrieved Big Boss. But Big Boss was still asleep, as Zero had left him.
Snake: Why did Zero keep him alive?
Big Mama: People need heroes. Zero wanted to create a messiah... A legend... That would never die.
Snake: Liquid is after Big Boss's body. Is it here?
Big Mama: I'll take you to meet him.
[Big Mama walks over to the back of one of several black vans parked within the
courtyard of the church.]
Big Mama: This is his pyx. His Holy Ark

--------------

Big Mama: Snake, over here. We've got decoy vans set to draw some of our pursuers away.

--------------

Otacon: I've got bad news.... The decoy vans have all bitten the dust. Which means the enemy will be focusing on you now. I just need you to hold them off a little longer.

--------------

Big Mama: Snake... I have to apologize. The three vans that came out with us were decoys. The real one is floating down the river, headed downstream.

--------------

Liquid Ocelot: Naomi told me everything. And now, thanks to her, I finally have it. The thing I've sought for so long... Big Boss. Put down the gun, Snake. It's already too late. You almost did it. But it looks like I win after all.

--------------

Big Boss: That body Liquid burned on the Volta... Wasn't mine. That was the body... Of a clone. Solidus.

Big Boss: He was a perfect clone. Zero, and the proxy AIs that came after him, were convinced that Solidus was me. I was implanted with nanomachines... Kept in a state of eternal sleep... By JD the proxy AI. They had me sealed away completely... Not only physical body, but my will, too. The technology was similar to what they used to restrain the B&B members you encountered. For me to wake again... The System had to be destroyed... One way or another. Ocelot and EVA wanted two things... To bring me back to life, and to end the Patriots. That meant destroying the AI and killing the man... JD and Zero. Right before you uploaded the virus into GW... The way to JD was opened, but only through the physical manifestation of GW. That's when we finally learned the location of this man... Zero. For me, and for them...For Naomi... Nothing was more important. And it was for that they put their grand scheme into motion. EVA stole my body from them and reconstructed it by replacing the missing parts with pieces from Liquid and Solidus.

So the 2 bio-morts were Solidus and Naked Snake:
- Solidus was the bio-mort Eva had in the van and that Liquid Ocelot burned on the river
- Naked's bio-mort was inside the Patriot AI

Although Solidus and Naked are genetically identical, Solidus is the 'fake' bio-mort and Naked the 'real' one.

[lPaladinl]

Holografix původně napsal:

*A bunch of useless script that didn't need to be posted*

Big Boss: That body Liquid burned on the Volta... Wasn't mine. That was the body... Of a clone. Solidus.

Big Boss: He was a perfect clone. Zero, and the proxy AIs that came after him, were convinced that Solidus was me. I was implanted with nanomachines... Kept in a state of eternal sleep... By JD the proxy AI. They had me sealed away completely... Not only physical body, but my will, too. The technology was similar to what they used to restrain the B&B members you encountered. For me to wake again... The System had to be destroyed... One way or another. Ocelot and EVA wanted two things... To bring me back to life, and to end the Patriots. That meant destroying the AI and killing the man... JD and Zero. Right before you uploaded the virus into GW... The way to JD was opened, but only through the physical manifestation of GW. That's when we finally learned the location of this man... Zero. For me, and for them...For Naomi... Nothing was more important. And it was for that they put their grand scheme into motion. EVA stole my body from them and reconstructed it by replacing the missing parts with pieces from Liquid and Solidus.

So the 2 bio-morts were Solidus and Naked Snake:
- Solidus was the bio-mort Eva had in the van and that Liquid Ocelot burned on the river
- Naked's bio-mort was inside the Patriot AI

Although Solidus and Naked are genetically identical, Solidus is the 'fake' bio-mort and Naked the 'real' one.

That script doesn't prove that there's two bio-morts, and your arguement only shows that you don't know that Naked Snake and Big Boss are one in the same. Naked Snake can't be a Bio-Mort AND be Big Boss that shows up at the ending to talk to Solid.

The van that Ocelot burned was empty.

[Holografix]

lPaladinl původně napsal:

Holografix původně napsal:

*A bunch of useless script that didn't need to be posted*

So the 2 bio-morts were Solidus and Naked Snake:
- Solidus was the bio-mort Eva had in the van and that Liquid Ocelot burned on the river
- Naked's bio-mort was inside the Patriot AI
Although Solidus and Naked are genetically identical, Solidus is the 'fake' bio-mort and Naked the 'real' one.

That script doesn't prove that there's two bio-morts, and your arguement only shows that you don't know that Naked Snake and Big Boss are one in the same. Naked Snake can't be a Bio-Mort AND be Big Boss who brought Solidus to Solid Snake so that they would all die from Foxdie and get some closure between them.

The van that Ocelot burned was empty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arp1SxuV43o
I know that Naked = Big Boss.....The bio-mort Big Mama shows Solid inside the black van is Solidus. During the chase part, the black van with Solidus' bio-mort gets to the river but Liquid Ocelot finds it before Solid and Big Mama arrive there. The bio-mort is then on a boat in the river. Then Liquid Ocelot accesses The Patriot AI with Solidus' bio-mort which he then burns. Liquid doesn't burn a van, he burns a boat.

So you seem to think that there is only one bio-mort in Guns of the Patriots? And the only bio-mort is the one shown to us inside the van? And since that bio-mort is actually Solidus and is genetically identical to Naked Snake, Eva uses the bio-mort in her possession to rebuild the BigBoss that talks to Solid Snake at the end of the game? Interesting.

But you have no more proof than I do regarding whether there are 1 or 2 bio-morts. So yeah, I am not convinced by your theory.

[Seamus]

Holografix původně napsal:

lPaladinl původně napsal:

That script doesn't prove that there's two bio-morts, and your arguement only shows that you don't know that Naked Snake and Big Boss are one in the same. Naked Snake can't be a Bio-Mort AND be Big Boss who brought Solidus to Solid Snake so that they would all die from Foxdie and get some closure between them.

The van that Ocelot burned was empty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arp1SxuV43o
I know that Naked = Big Boss.....The bio-mort Big Mama shows Solid inside the black van is Solidus. During the chase part, the black van with Solidus' bio-mort gets to the river but Liquid Ocelot finds it before Solid and Big Mama arrive there. The bio-mort is then on a boat in the river. Then Liquid Ocelot accesses The Patriot AI with Solidus' bio-mort which he then burns. Liquid doesn't burn a van, he burns a boat.

So you seem to think that there is only one bio-mort in Guns of the Patriots? And the only bio-mort is the one shown to us inside the van? And since that bio-mort is actually Solidus and is genetically identical to Naked Snake, Eva uses the bio-mort in her possession to rebuild the BigBoss that talks to Solid Snake at the end of the game? Interesting.

But you have no more proof than I do regarding whether there are 1 or 2 bio-morts. So yeah, I am not convinced by your theory.

You've yet to prove there are two. You say Naked/Big Boss was the second, yet, the "mort" part of that implies he's braindead. Being in a medically induced coma caused by the patriots is NOT brain death.

[lPaladinl]

Holografix původně napsal:

lPaladinl původně napsal:

That script doesn't prove that there's two bio-morts, and your arguement only shows that you don't know that Naked Snake and Big Boss are one in the same. Naked Snake can't be a Bio-Mort AND be Big Boss who brought Solidus to Solid Snake so that they would all die from Foxdie and get some closure between them.

The van that Ocelot burned was empty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arp1SxuV43o
I know that Naked = Big Boss.....The bio-mort Big Mama shows Solid inside the black van is Solidus. During the chase part, the black van with Solidus' bio-mort gets to the river but Liquid Ocelot finds it before Solid and Big Mama arrive there. The bio-mort is then on a boat in the river. Then Liquid Ocelot accesses The Patriot AI with Solidus' bio-mort which he then burns. Liquid doesn't burn a van, he burns a boat.

So you seem to think that there is only one bio-mort in Guns of the Patriots? And the only bio-mort is the one shown to us inside the van? And since that bio-mort is actually Solidus and is genetically identical to Naked Snake, Eva uses the bio-mort in her possession to rebuild the BigBoss that talks to Solid Snake at the end of the game? Interesting.

But you have no more proof than I do regarding whether there are 1 or 2 bio-morts. So yeah, I am not convinced by your theory.

I'm not the one trying to come up with a theory, you are.

Only one Bio-mort is ever shown to us in MGS4, and it is Solidus.

When Big Boss says that he was rebuilt from Solidus, they meant through transplants and surgery between Big Boss' near-dead corpse after the events of Metal Gear 2, and Solidus' bio-mort after Metal Gear Solid 2.

No one says anything in the game that alludes to Big Boss being anyone but himself.

Naked Snake/Big Boss can't have been a Bio-Mort because he wouldn't have been able to walk to the Cemetary to talk to Solid Snake.

[Holografix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWkdEs71-iA
the quote on the LP is:
No one can see me, no one knows me
All men are deaf, no ears disclose me
- Taras Shevchenko

Seamus původně napsal:

You've yet to prove there are two. You say Naked/Big Boss was the second, yet, the "mort" part of that implies he's braindead. Being in a medically induced coma caused by the patriots is NOT brain death.

Big Mama explains what a bio-mort is when she shows Solidus to Solid Snake: "His body is alive, but his consciousness is locked away by nanomachines. So technically speaking, he's not really brain dead." So the 'mort' part does not imply brain death. And being in a medically induced coma caused by the PATRIOTS is not brain death.

The real Big Boss was released when the PATRIOT AI's were destroyed. While the PATRIOT AI was active he was a 'bio-mort' because his consciousness and will were suppressed by nanomachines. So there are 2 bio-morts. One we see (Third Sun) and one we don't (Naked Sin).

lPaladinl původně napsal:

Only one Bio-mort is ever shown to us in MGS4, and it is Solidus. When Big Boss says that he was rebuilt from Solidus, they meant through transplants and surgery between Big Boss' near-dead corpse after the events of Metal Gear 2, and Solidus' bio-mort after Metal Gear Solid 2.

Naked Snake/Big Boss can't have been a Bio-Mort because he wouldn't have been able to walk to the Cemetary to talk to Solid Snake.

Eva rebuilds Big Boss' body from Liquid and Solidus. So he isn't exactly in the same shape as seen in the cemetery. He was trapped inside the PATRIOT AI since he was powering it while in a nano-machine medically induced coma. Essentially, he was a bio-mort. There was some time that passed between the chapters Old Sun and Naked Sin in Guns of the Patriots, time enough for Eva to rebuild Big Boss.