Quiet is Big Mama? SPOILERS!

[abcd]

I'm getting tired of putting this off. There might be some spoilers here, but it's mostly safe.

Here's some simple points:

Big Mama was originally planned to be brunette, but had her hair color changed to blonde at the last minute.

Skin tone is completely different. It's possible that she just lost that 'glow' that she and Ocelot had over time, but Big Mama's skin looks like it was already a different shade when it was young esp. compared to Ocelot.

Similar standing poses to Quiet, especially in promotional material.

The thematic significance of getting stabbed in the same place as EVA did, her deep affection for Venom, and her indifference to gunshot wounds and flames really seems a lot more like Quiet than EVA. Honestly that whole scene with the biomort just makes way, way more sense assuming that they're the same person. Ocelot's reaction too, considering EVA is probably his twin sister and that the AI was using Quiet as some sort of self-insert fan character so she could hang out with Snake, but that's a different post.

No bra, esposed cleavage. Quiet. Needs airflow, but is clearly good enough to get by with very little by now.

Voice differences, but I haven't done any background checking on that.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[Zest]

no

[Seamus]

Big Mama/Eva cares about the biomort because it's Solidus, one of her kids. Quiet isn't Big Mama. At all.

[abcd]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Big Mama/Eva cares about the biomort because it's Solidus, one of her kids.

The biomort is Venom, still clinging to life after faceplanting a minefield.

Raiden kills Solidus and they collect the corpse later, iirc. So hard to search all those cutscenes :/.

[tyrone shoelaces]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Big Mama/Eva cares about the biomort because it's Solidus, one of her kids. Quiet isn't Big Mama. At all.

Originally posted by Seamus:

Big Mama/Eva cares about the biomort because it's Solidus, one of her kids. Quiet isn't Big Mama. At all.

Originally posted by Seamus:

Big Mama/Eva cares about the biomort because it's Solidus, one of her kids. Quiet isn't Big Mama. At all.

[abcd]

Originally posted by redacted:

Originally posted by Seamus:

Big Mama/Eva cares about the biomort because it's Solidus, one of her kids. Quiet isn't Big Mama. At all.

Originally posted by Seamus:

Big Mama/Eva cares about the biomort because it's Solidus, one of her kids. Quiet isn't Big Mama. At all.

Originally posted by Seamus:

Big Mama/Eva cares about the biomort because it's Solidus, one of her kids. Quiet isn't Big Mama. At all.

Quality post as usual.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by Themself:

Originally posted by Seamus:

Big Mama/Eva cares about the biomort because it's Solidus, one of her kids.

The biomort is Venom, still clinging to life after faceplanting a minefield.

Raiden kills Solidus and they collect the corpse later, iirc. So hard to search all those cutscenes :/.

No. It's not Venom. It's Solidus. It's always been Solidus. Look closer. Big Boss/Venom lost the same eye. Solidus lost the opposite one. The corpse is missing the wrong eye.

You're reaching.

[lPaladinl]

The dead body Big Boss digs up at the end of MGS4 is Solidus.

Quiet isn't BIg Mama, their age doesn't make sense, Quiet is younger than Big Mama was when she first met Naked Snake. You also see Big Mama, aka Eva, in MGS4 and she clearly isn't a modified superhuman like Quiet is.

[Holografix]

Like Quiet is a big mama? Or Quiet is actually Eva aka Big Mama?

[abcd]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Quiet isn't BIg Mama, their age doesn't make sense, Quiet is younger than Big Mama was when she first met Naked Snake. You also see Big Mama, aka Eva, in MGS4 and she clearly isn't a modified superhuman like Quiet is.

Quiet could pass as normal if she didn't do anything weird. Quiet is 19 in 1984, Big Mama looks to be in her late 40's-50's in 2014. I get the feeling she has a similar voice quality too, but I haven't listened to them side-by-side yet.

Originally posted by Holografix:

Like Quiet is a big mama? Or Quiet is actually Eva aka Big Mama?

EVA disappears in Hanoi and never surfaces again. Quiet takes her place, and becomes Big Mama. After some surgery.

Originally posted by Seamus:

No. It's not Venom. It's Solidus. It's always been Solidus. Look closer. Big Boss/Venom lost the same eye. Solidus lost the opposite one. The corpse is missing the wrong eye.

hrrm, got the feeling it was revealed somewhere that the body was actually the body-double. I know the double came up in the game somewhere, but I might be getting 5 out of 4 here I admit. was putting off playing all of 4 again just to resolve this.

kinda strange that the eyeball is intact though, and that the rest of the body is burned. they could have just put somebody else's eyeball in a body that was missing both.

[Quincy Jones]

Lol it's well known and heavily established that EVA is 'Big Momma' go play MGS4 again and pay attention to the cutscenes. Jeez.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by Themself:

Originally posted by Seamus:

No. It's not Venom. It's Solidus. It's always been Solidus. Look closer. Big Boss/Venom lost the same eye. Solidus lost the opposite one. The corpse is missing the wrong eye.

hrrm, got the feeling it was revealed somewhere that the body was actually the body-double. I know the double came up in the game somewhere, but I might be getting 5 out of 4 here I admit. was putting off playing all of 4 again just to resolve this.

kinda strange that the eyeball is intact though, and that the rest of the body is burned. they could have just put somebody else's eyeball in a body that was missing both.

You're also missing the most important hint: Ocelot uses the vegetable in plastic to access SOP. Something that ONLY the real Big Boss's DNA can do. Solidus is the exact clone of Big Boss unlike Liquid and Solid. There's no one else the vegetable could be. Thus Big Mama's connection to it as it's her son.

[Holografix]

So you are prepared to claim that Quiet is the surrogate for Liquid and Solid?

[abcd]

Originally posted by Holografix:

So you are prepared to claim that Quiet is the surrogate for Liquid and Solid?

Uh, no, that was probably EVA. I've edited this post to hell and back though, so I need some time to think about that one. Pretty sure she was upset with how the project went and left for Hanoi. Did I get those dates wrong...? It gets so confusing right around there. Even summaries of Peacewalker are dense, and I clearly need to replay 4 already.

Originally posted by Seamus:

You're also missing the most important hint: Ocelot uses the vegetable in plastic to access SOP. Something that ONLY the real Big Boss's DNA can do. Solidus is the exact clone of Big Boss unlike Liquid and Solid. There's no one else the vegetable could be. Thus Big Mama's connection to it as it's her son.

I don't see why the AI would trust anyone but Venom, honestly. He's far and away the most loyal Snake in the whole series. I can't remember offhand exactly how the Patriot security system worked, one of the things I wanted to go back and check, but the hack they used to shuffle Ocelot in required Liquid's outdated not-quite-dead-null-sequence nanobots, Big Boss/Solidus' DNA sequence, and the holes created by the worm that Emma developed.

If that's all they needed then the series could've ended at MGS2.

Presumably, they also needed the parasites that had adapted to Venom's DNA sequence, since they formed the technological basis for nanobots in the first place and Venom was the only parasite-carrier with systems access. I can't think of a better way to safely key Venom to all of the outrageous tech he uses, starting first and foremost with the iDroid. I mean, what if he just...dropped it once? There had to be a failsafe. Like, a passcode...? I've already assumed that the parasites can be adapted to be a loose mind-machine interface, and that that's how the AI controls the Skulls, but that's a part of that other post.

Venom regularly displays superhuman recuperative abilities, albeit at a very low level. Diazepam can't explain the sensory nerves in his legs beginning to work again within a few minutes of injection, even if all of the muscles were intact, as all it does is increase the amount of blood a heart can pump. It doesn't do anything for the nervous system whatsoever, which is a discrete system running parallel to the more mechanical parts of the body such as the heart and other muscular systems. A cigarette would have had a bigger effect. You've seen Kill Bill, right? She spent a long time in that car, just trying to get her toe to wiggle again. Coma patients regularly have to go through extensive physical therapy to walk again, good muscles or no. Low-level parasites make way more sense. Or gen-0 nanobots, seeing as how the Skulls have been around for a while already by the time Venom wakes up and there has clearly been a lot of research going on with them based on all those corpses.

As for the son stuff, idk maybe? I thought she thought it was BB in there when the cutscene was happening, and I just...don't see the basis for her to have an emotional connection with Solidus. The best thing Solidus ever did was crash Arsenal into NYC in the vague hopes that 'something would happen,' assuming he wasn't just pulling a The Boss and paying for his sins by letting Raiden loose and simultaneously setting him up to get revenge. Otherwise, he's basically an unapolagetic monster that she agreed to spawn for the sake of world peace.

Finally, how did Solidus lose his left arm? Biomort has the same left-arm injury that Venom has, even if google refuses to show me a full-body picture of him and I can't figure out what inane youtube title shows me the scene on the docks.

Originally posted by Quincy Jones:

Lol it's well known and heavily established that EVA is 'Big Momma' go play MGS4 again and pay attention to the cutscenes. Jeez.

If I just listen to the narrative as the games present them then I'm told that there were only two sons of the eight that survive, that Ocelot and the Boss aren't related, etc. etc. I admit this is pretty serious epileptic trees territory, but I'm having trouble shaking it.

The games have never held your hand when it came to deciphering the subtext, they just reiterate all the secret spoilers once they've become moot and the next game is released. It's still kind of an easter egg just to know that Ocelot is The Boss' son, even if that's pretty common knowledge, or that Sunny is Ocelot and Olga's daughter.

[redeyedraven]

Originally posted by Themself:

The games have never held your hand when it came to deciphering the subtext

MGS4 spelled pretty much everything out for the audience though, and Big Mama is an elderly Eva. Eva is *not* Quiet. There isn't even room for a theory there.

[abcd]

Originally posted by redeyedraven:

MGS4 spelled pretty much everything out for the audience though, and Big Mama is an elderly Eva. Eva is *not* Quiet.

I respect your opinion. But if you geniunely want me to agree with you, it'll take a little more than that.