My theory about why Quiet's design is so eroticized

[Agent_Ash]

I'll be honest, for a very long time Quiet's design just rubbed me the wrong way. And it seemed completely out of place, like nothing that I'd seen in MGS before. The Boss's combination of scar and cleavage seemed fitting, like a symbol of how war mars beauty and scars senses. With Sniper Wolf it seemed fitting because her whole character exuded sexiness and faux-flirting as some sort of a power play. But with Quiet it never seemed right to me.

And it wasn't just the design itself. Okay, I accepted the lore breathing-through-her-skin explanation. I accepted the ridiculous bra and torn pantyhose. What seemd weird was the way she was shown. Like when Big Boss picks her up, wounded after a battle with him, weak... It's a serious moment, he's basically saving her, showing mercy to his enemy... and the camera zooms onto her boobs. It was just plain odd; I was like, "Why? Why now? What's the point? It's not a sensitive or emotional moment, why underline something like that?" And stuff like that happens over and over in various cutscenes.

I didn't think it was just because "the Japanese like boobs, everyone likes boos, boobs sell well". This game has a ton of stuff to offer; plus Metal Gear Solid had never been that much about boobs. So I decided this trivial commercial explanation wasn't enough for me.

Then yesterday after two beers it suddenly hit me.

Because MGS is a third-person game, we often forget one important fact: it's told from a specific perspective. Yes, sometimes this perspective changes, sometimes we see and hear things that the protagonist isn't present to hear or see, but MOSTLY it's told from his perspective. And this perspective is a perspective of what is called an unreliable narrator[en.wikipedia.org].

This fact isn't that important by itself, but it points to another fact: we perceive things from Snake's perspective. Think about it: as Snake we often see his thoughts, dreams, visions and hallucinations; we believe the things he believes (up to a point), we make the same mistakes he makes (remember MGS1 last act with Metal Gear activation, think of the Man Who Sold The World in PP, etc.). All of those things point to his perspective, or at least they make you feel like you're in his shoes (as mentioned above, the perspective does change sometimes, but it's Snake's most of the time).

Now, why is that important?

Metal Gear series is famous for talking about multiple topics. And it likes to deal with intimate issues too. Physical discomfort, pain, beauty and disfigurement, physical desires, sex.

Think about Big Boss. He is sterile, so from a biological perspective he is not a fully capable male. He's a very constrained and silent person, clearly hiding a lot of feelings, pain, fears and insecurities behind that powerful exterior. And he has very little social or personal contacts in his life.

What I'm getting at is, even though Big Boss is a hero, he's also a regular man. And a man who sees an attractive woman will glance at her in a sexual way, especially if it's such a lonely and repressed man as Big Boss. He may be saving her from death at that moment, he may be full of compassion or thinking about the possible outcome of saving her, whether she's going to be an ally or a liability... But for a split second he will look at her like that.

Not because he's a pervert, not because "that's all men care about", but because that's how brain chemistry works: before you start thinking rationally, your eyes will dart across her body, for a split second, and THEN the rational part of your brain will start thinking about the actually important stuff.

So, Quiet is sometimes shown in an eroticized way because we're looking at her with Big Boss' eyes. And sometimes he lets his mind wander a bit; there's nothing surprising or unusual about that. While her design isn't subtle, the meaning is subtle enough: it shows how a great warrior has to repress such distractions as feelings and desires in order to survive and go on fighting. And how they sometimes still resurface, unconsciously (even subconsciously), even at the weirdest, most unfitting moments. Because that's how it actually works in real life.

Notice that Quiet isn't really presented as a sexy character. In contrast to Sniper Wolf she doesn't flirt, she doesn't tease, she isn't the least bit playful. She wears revealing clothes but she doesn't act in a sexy way, ever (except maybe stretching in front of Snake on the helicopter, but even that doesn't seem like consciously sexy behavior). She looks sexy only in his perspective.

[indirectTendencies]

You're pretty good.

[Coyote Knight]

Here's what actually happened, Kojima wanted some T&A in his game because who doesn't love some T&A?

[Rabidnid]

Originally posted by Coyote Knight:

Here's what actually happened, Kojima wanted some T&A in his game because who doesn't love some T&A?

He stated as much in a pre release interview. Quiet was intended to boost action figure and game sales.

[littleChama]

Short answer: Japanese culture/Kojima wanted a waifu

[Holografix]

Originally posted by ★ blizza:

Short answer: Japanese culture/Kojima wanted a waifu

what's your long answer?

[!RJ_Truth]

I like your take on it. Reality is Kojima wanted T&A because T&A sells. Lore of it works for me as does your camera perspective. I like it.

[Pawn]

That makes her a lot more tollerable to bring on missions if I see it that way

[Naiko]

Originally posted by Agent Ash:

Because MGS is a third-person game, we often forget one important fact: it's told from a specific perspective. Yes, sometimes this perspective changes, sometimes we see and hear things that the protagonist isn't present to hear or see, but MOSTLY it's told from his perspective.

You forget that Kojima is a movie maniac, and a good movie always makes absolutely clear which perspective it's telling from (unless the movie's plot is to reveal what perspective it's telling from at the end). The camera is always (with a few exceptions) close to Snake, because he's the main character, the person you play as, the person all of this is about. Only sometimes you actually get to see what he sees, like after the Where Do The Bees Sleep mission and after Metallic Archea where you listen to Vocal Cord Parasite Talker with Ocelot in the helicopter. But if the camera always represented Venom's view, you wouldn't be able to see the conversation with Code Talker and Quiet after she was zapped, or the interior of the helicopter at the end of Skull Face,where Eli gains control of Sahelanthropus, as to that point no one knew he was the one controlling it.

Originally posted by Agent Ash:

She wears revealing clothes but she doesn't act in a sexy way, ever (except maybe stretching in front of Snake on the helicopter, but even that doesn't seem like consciously sexy behavior)

Uh, did you ever look at her in the helicopter? After all the stretching, where you get a great view of her cleavage or crotch, she looks directly to Snake. What do you think those looks imply? And when she's standing up if you zoomed too long on her, holding her breasts right towards Venom, then slowly moving back to her seat, but standing for a moment to show her butt and even tilting her head back to him, before finally sitting down? And what about the shower scene?

When Snake shows affection to her, it's always emotional. When he carries her away after she jumped down into that toxic pit to save Shibani's amulett; when he joyfully plays with her in the rain at MB and even laughs with her; when he's holding at the end of A Quiet Exit. Those momemts show me rather that he does NOT reduce her to her "female attributes", that he sees her as a beautiful woman, without having the need to stare at her breasts and buttocks.
That would have been a great way to show her character development, by making her lust for revenge slowly receding because she also feels emotions for Venom, but unfortunately the only times you see her character develop is when she shows her affection to Snake by shaking her boobs in front of him. I can't stand that PLUS her outfit. It's difficult to develop a character who doesn't speak, but Kojima obviously didn't have much interest to try that with her anyway. Her sexual behaviour overshadows the portions where she actually does or says something of worth. Her introduction in the intro, the attack on one of the MB soldiers, the conversation with Code Talker, and the last bit of A Quiet Exit. And between all of that, you get her moaning and stretching in the helicopter, if you choose to use her on the field, and some rare appearances in cutscenes, which seldom have any meaning to her character at all.

[loganjamesalex]

I like OPs orginal thought. There is a lot of that kind of stuff that Kojima does like how he wanted to put the player in Venoms shoes or how he wanted the player to be the one who actually pulls the trigger on The Boss. And making her look the way she does puts us even more into Venoms shoes of wanting what we can never have.

[maxkidd]

Originally posted by Agent Ash:

I'll be honest, for a very long time Quiet's design just rubbed me the wrong way. And it seemed completely out of place, like nothing that I'd seen in MGS before. The Boss's combination of scar and cleavage seemed fitting, like a symbol of how war mars beauty and scars senses. With Sniper Wolf it seemed fitting because her whole character exuded sexiness and faux-flirting as some sort of a power play. But with Quiet it never seemed right to me.

And it wasn't just the design itself. Okay, I accepted the lore breathing-through-her-skin explanation. I accepted the ridiculous bra and torn pantyhose. What seemd weird was the way she was shown. Like when Big Boss picks her up, wounded after a battle with him, weak... It's a serious moment, he's basically saving her, showing mercy to his enemy... and the camera zooms onto her boobs. It was just plain odd; I was like, "Why? Why now? What's the point? It's not a sensitive or emotional moment, why underline something like that?" And stuff like that happens over and over in various cutscenes.

I didn't think it was just because "the Japanese like boobs, everyone likes boos, boobs sell well". This game has a ton of stuff to offer; plus Metal Gear Solid had never been that much about boobs. So I decided this trivial commercial explanation wasn't enough for me.

Then yesterday after two beers it suddenly hit me.

Because MGS is a third-person game, we often forget one important fact: it's told from a specific perspective. Yes, sometimes this perspective changes, sometimes we see and hear things that the protagonist isn't present to hear or see, but MOSTLY it's told from his perspective. And this perspective is a perspective of what is called an unreliable narrator[en.wikipedia.org].

Think about it: as Snake we often see his thoughts, dreams, visions and hallucinations; we believe the things he believes (up to a point), we make the same mistakes he makes (remember MGS1 last act with Metal Gear activation, think of the Man Who Sold The World in PP, etc.). We perceive things from Snake's perspective.

Now, why is that important?

Metal Gear series is famous for talking about multiple topics. And it likes to deal with intimate issues too. Physical discomfort, pain, beauty and disfigurement, physical desires, sex.

Think about Big Boss. He is sterile, so from a biological perspective he is not a fully capable male. He's a very constrained and silent person, clearly hiding a lot of feelings, pain, fears and insecurities behind that powerful exterior. And he has very little social or personal contacts in his life.

What I'm getting at is, even though Big Boss is a hero, he's also a regular man. And a man who sees an attractive woman will glance at her in a sexual way, especially if it's such a lonely and repressed man as Big Boss. He may be saving her from death at that moment, he may be full of compassion or thinking about the possible outcome of saving her, whether she's going to be an ally or a liability... But for a split second he will look at her like that.

Not because he's a pervert, not because "that's all men care about", but because that's how brain chemistry works: before you start thinking rationally, your eyes will dart across her body, for a split second, and THEN the rational part of your brain will start thinking about the actually important stuff.

So, Quiet is sometimes shown in an eroticized way because we're looking at her with Big Boss' eyes. And sometimes he lets his mind wander a bit; there's nothing surprising or unusual about that. While her design isn't subtle, the meaning is subtle enough: it shows how a great warrior has to repress such distractions as feelings and desires in order to survive and go on fighting. And how they sometimes still resurface, unconsciously (even subconsciously), even at the weirdest, most unfitting moments. Because that's how it actually works in real life.

Notice that Quiet isn't really presented as a sexy character. In contrast to Sniper Wolf she doesn't flirt, she doesn't tease, she isn't the least bit playful. She wears revealing clothes but she doesn't act in a sexy way, ever (except maybe stretching in front of Snake on the helicopter, but even that doesn't seem like consciously sexy behavior). She looks sexy only in his perspective.

thank you for this

[luminaree]

Originally posted by •Metal Gear Hitler•:

You're pretty good.

[Agent_Ash]

Originally posted by Naiko:

When Snake shows affection to her, it's always emotional. When he carries her away after she jumped down into that toxic pit to save Shibani's amulett; when he joyfully plays with her in the rain at MB and even laughs with her; when he's holding at the end of A Quiet Exit. Those momemts show me rather that he does NOT reduce her to her "female attributes", that he sees her as a beautiful woman, without having the need to stare at her breasts and buttocks.
That would have been a great way to show her character development, by making her lust for revenge slowly receding because she also feels emotions for Venom, but unfortunately the only times you see her character develop is when she shows her affection to Snake by shaking her boobs in front of him. I can't stand that PLUS her outfit. It's difficult to develop a character who doesn't speak, but Kojima obviously didn't have much interest to try that with her anyway. Her sexual behaviour overshadows the portions where she actually does or says something of worth. Her introduction in the intro, the attack on one of the MB soldiers, the conversation with Code Talker, and the last bit of A Quiet Exit. And between all of that, you get her moaning and stretching in the helicopter, if you choose to use her on the field, and some rare appearances in cutscenes, which seldom have any meaning to her character at all.

That is all true and I agree with that. However, I don't think it contradicts much with what I said.

* He definitely doesn't reduce her to female attributes. But his brain does pay attention to them, even if for a moment, even in an unfitting situation. Because that's the brain. Notice, that the camera never stares at her body, it just glances over it.

* He is emotional about her. But his emotions are always repressed, awkward, even in most emotional moments his face barely changes. Plus, when I talked about how repressed stuff resurfaces, I didn't really mean emotions but rather sexual desires, for which he has very little outlets.

* The helicopter things are true. But those are the moments when we see Quiet almost alone with Snake (I feel like we're discriminating against Pequod, but well...), and we know she's in love with him. Not the best way to show it. What I meant was, Quiet doesn't act sexy generally. Not like Sniper Wolf, for example. But agree, those moments are just awkward.

* I absolutely agree that character development could've been done much, much better, and I also find her outfit very annoying and believe it could've been done much more interesting even with "breathes-through-her-skin" requirement.

[Naiko]

Originally posted by Agent Ash:

That is all true and I agree with that. However, I don't think it contradicts much with what I said.

* He definitely doesn't reduce her to female attributes. But his brain does pay attention to them, even if for a moment, even in an unfitting situation. Because that's the brain. Notice, that the camera never stares at her body, it just glances over it.

* He is emotional about her. But his emotions are always repressed, awkward, even in most emotional moments his face barely changes. Plus, when I talked about how repressed stuff resurfaces, I didn't really mean emotions but rather sexual desires, for which he has very little outlets.

But he never expresses any sexual desire. I doubt his body is producing enough testosterone for him to be in a sexual repressive state, since he's sterile (well, as long as they sterilized Venom, too). And his face barely ever changes. Out of the blue I only remember two scenes: right after the helicopter crash in Metallic Archea and right before Sahelanthropus crashes intoEli's interrogation. I think that's more of a thing caused by the face animations. If he'd have had more voice lines, we might had seen more expressions on his face.

Originally posted by Agent Ash:

* The helicopter things are true. But those are the moments when we see Quiet almost alone with Snake (I feel like we're discriminating against Pequod, but well...), and we know she's in love with him. Not the best way to show it. What I meant was, Quiet doesn't act sexy generally. Not like Sniper Wolf, for example. But agree, those moments are just awkward.

* I absolutely agree that character development could've been done much, much better, and I also find her outfit very annoying and believe it could've been done much more interesting even with "breathes-through-her-skin" requirement.

It's true, Quiet seems to go all out only really in the helicopter, but there's still the shower scene with all the DD soldiers standing around gawking at Quiet. She doesn't act sexually all the time, but if Snake is around and the situation isn't absolutely improper, she doesn't mind showing her jiggle physics. Sure, it's not the same as Sniper Wolf (funny enough you can unlock that outfit for her though), but Sniper Wolf doesn't wear skimpy clothes like Quiet.

[Agent_Ash]

Originally posted by Naiko:

But he never expresses any sexual desire. I doubt his body is producing enough testosterone for him to be in a sexual repressive state, since he's sterile (

He does't express it, and that's my point. It doesn't mean it's not there. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite.
Sterility doesn't imply absense of desires at all. Things that cause sterility may cause lack of sex drive, but not infertility itself. I don't really know what effects radiation-induced infertility would have, but considering the amount of his muscle mass and body hair, it doesn't look like he's low on testosterone at all. That's kind of an overly-deep speculation, though.
It does, however, seem to me very logical to assume that infertility produces insecurity, self-doubt and thus further fuels his attemps at repressing his desires.

Originally posted by Naiko:

It's true, Quiet seems to go all out only really in the helicopter, but there's still the shower scene with all the DD soldiers standing around gawking at Quiet. She doesn't act sexually all the time, but if Snake is around and the situation isn't absolutely improper, she doesn't mind showing her jiggle physics. Sure, it's not the same as Sniper Wolf (funny enough you can unlock that outfit for her though), but Sniper Wolf doesn't wear skimpy clothes like Quiet.

Well, it seems you're agreeing with my point here more than not. In the shower she acts openly, but not really sexually. She isn't being playful or teasing.

[Naiko]

Originally posted by Agent Ash:

He does't express it, and that's my point. It doesn't mean it's not there. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite.
Sterility doesn't imply absense of desires at all. Things that cause sterility may cause lack of sex drive, but not infertility itself. I don't really know what effects radiation-induced infertility would have, but considering the amount of his muscle mass and body hair, it doesn't look like he's low on testosterone at all. That's kind of an overly-deep speculation, though.
It does, however, seem to me very logical to assume that infertility produces insecurity, self-doubt and thus further fuels his attemps at repressing his desires.

Big Boss never seemed like the kind of guy who hides his emotions to me. He's just cold. The last woman he truely cared for was killed by his own hands. While it's arguable that Venom might be different from Big Boss in that regard, he never really shows any signs of being fundamentally different in terms of his emotions. He keeps a straight look 99% of the game and most of the time he speaks, his sentences are plain and short. I never got the feeling he might say or act in a way that's not truely him. He's probably one of the most confident people in the series, considering how determined he tries to reach his goals. And he rarely doubts his actions either.

Originally posted by Agent Ash:

Well, it seems you're agreeing with my point here more than not. In the shower she acts openly, but not really sexually. She isn't being playful or teasing.

She is, but towards him. If I recall correctly (I've only seen the scene once, was a while ago) in the shower scene she's moving her body in a way... I don't know how to put it. Like a belly dancess? Her moves seemed rather seductive to me. But perhaps that's the normal way everyone except me takes showers and I just don't know.
My point however is, Quiet expresses her affection to Snake by either presenting her body or giving him seductive looks. The only time it's different is at the very end of A Quiet Exit when she finally speaks. I could even accept her revealing outfit, if she and the cameraman wouldn't be so eager in showing that Quiet still has a cleavage and buttocks.
Stefanie Joosten defends Quiet's design with the game's explanation as well. I just cannot for the mere fact that she's weaing a ripped pantyhose, scanty panties and a bra(?) that lets her boobs bounce with every step. Wouldn't you at least wear a sports bra when you go out jumping through the world at high speed? I imagine it'd start to feel uncomfortable after a couple hours of 20 meter jumps with that cloth of hers.