Kojima Ruined MGS

[Belethor General Goods]

I know this is not going to be a popular opinion, but having played MGSV: TPP for many hours now, I have determined the following:

The story is asinine.

The first game I played was Metal Gear Solid and I was i think 10 or 11. I thought it was the greatest game in the world. I actually did not have the game for some time and had to play the demo over and over and it was just awesome. When I go back and think about it, the story is pretty out there, but not too bad. Then came MGS II and holy smokes it was really out there.

THIS GAME... the gameplay is awesome, the main character is aweosme, the smallest details are awesome, voice acting awesome, cut scenes awesome... but the story is HORRENDOUS.

If i could get Metal Gear without the stupid farfetched stuff, I would love it now that I have matured (I like to believe) since I first became exposed to the series at 10 or 11.

Oh and that last mission where you have to save Quiet can FK OFF. You play hours and hours as a stealth character then all of the sudden you have to be a freaking ultra Rambo. WTF.

[Holografix]

otness_e původně napsal:

Holografix původně napsal:

You're just a right wing shill with little to no understanding of international affairs and of history. Your take is one-sided and shows no nuance as nothing in history is ever so simple. It is unfortunate that you been brainwashed by The Politically Incorrect Guide which is aimed at people with little to no learning about the subject matters and is from the Prager University which is right wing propaganda. I suggest you try and do some real scholarship on the issues you're discussing as your opinion is a reactionary take and truly shows your ignorance on the matter.

Even if that were true, what makes you think that you're not a left wing shill or that the sources you use are truthful, or that you yourself have any actual understanding of international affairs and of history? And just as an FYI, one of the sources those books used for Che's admission of wanting to cause nuclear war by nuking the American heartland was NOT from a right wing source, it was from the London Daily Worker, which last I checked, being an explicitly Communist magazine, is a left-wing source. Let's also not forget that Walter Duranty was a huge left-wing shill, even up and out lying about Holodomor. Or are you going to claim that was "right wing propaganda" as well, that Duranty was fully honest, even when evidence came out otherwise?

And you STILL haven't addressed the elephant in the room that is Miller basically singing praises for the same guy who nearly got Japan nuked again, which Miller even admitted was something his fellows in Japan panicked over at the time, and that is despite Miller being a good guy.

I haven't actually posted any of my views. Revolutionary wars and themes are complicated subjects. But I can see that your opinion of Che (and MGS) has no nuance which means you're locked into a singularly extremist viewpoint. Historical clarity is difficult especially with a difficult subject like Che or the themes of Metal Gear Solid. One way of telling whether someone's viewpoint is too extreme, or too simpleminded, is to see if it has nuance and breadth. Since you are so adamant about seeing Che one way or another, your opinion gets classified as tending towards propaganda.

You have to remember that Che was a complicated man, check out this quote from the wikipedia article about him:

"The discovery of Che's remains metonymically activated a series of interlinked associations—rebel, martyr, rogue figure from a picaresque adventure, savior, renegade, extremist—in which there was no fixed divide among them. The current court of opinion places Che on a continuum that teeters between viewing him as a misguided rebel, a coruscatingly brilliant guerrilla philosopher, a poet-warrior jousting at windmills, a brazen warrior who threw down the gauntlet to the bourgeoisie, the object of fervent paeans to his sainthood, or a mass murderer clothed in the guise of an avenging angel whose every action is imbricated in violence—the archetypal Fanatical Terrorist.
— Dr. Peter McLaren, author of Che Guevara, Paulo Freire, and the Pedagogy of Revolution

As for Miller, in Peacewalker he was involved with Cipher. Guns, merc contracts, the whole gamut. He wasn't a 'good guy,' just a charming one. In MGSV, he totally loses it and begins to hate Big Boss and eventually indirectly betrays Venom by training Solid Snake. He is killed by Liquid, probably at the request of Ocelot. You could theorize that Miller's contracts with Cipher allowed Skullface to discern the whereabouts of the original Motherbase.

[otness_e]

Holografix původně napsal:

otness_e původně napsal:

Even if that were true, what makes you think that you're not a left wing shill or that the sources you use are truthful, or that you yourself have any actual understanding of international affairs and of history? And just as an FYI, one of the sources those books used for Che's admission of wanting to cause nuclear war by nuking the American heartland was NOT from a right wing source, it was from the London Daily Worker, which last I checked, being an explicitly Communist magazine, is a left-wing source. Let's also not forget that Walter Duranty was a huge left-wing shill, even up and out lying about Holodomor. Or are you going to claim that was "right wing propaganda" as well, that Duranty was fully honest, even when evidence came out otherwise?

And you STILL haven't addressed the elephant in the room that is Miller basically singing praises for the same guy who nearly got Japan nuked again, which Miller even admitted was something his fellows in Japan panicked over at the time, and that is despite Miller being a good guy.

I haven't actually posted any of my views. Revolutionary wars and themes are complicated subjects. But I can see that your opinion of Che (and MGS) has no nuance which means you're locked into a singularly extremist viewpoint. Historical clarity is difficult especially with a difficult subject like Che or the themes of Metal Gear Solid. One way of telling whether someone's viewpoint is too extreme, or too simpleminded, is to see if it has nuance and breadth. Since you are so adamant about seeing Che one way or another, your opinion gets classified as tending towards propaganda.

You have to remember that Che was a complicated man, check out this quote from the wikipedia article about him:

"The discovery of Che's remains metonymically activated a series of interlinked associations—rebel, martyr, rogue figure from a picaresque adventure, savior, renegade, extremist—in which there was no fixed divide among them. The current court of opinion places Che on a continuum that teeters between viewing him as a misguided rebel, a coruscatingly brilliant guerrilla philosopher, a poet-warrior jousting at windmills, a brazen warrior who threw down the gauntlet to the bourgeoisie, the object of fervent paeans to his sainthood, or a mass murderer clothed in the guise of an avenging angel whose every action is imbricated in violence—the archetypal Fanatical Terrorist.
— Dr. Peter McLaren, author of Che Guevara, Paulo Freire, and the Pedagogy of Revolution

As for Miller, in Peacewalker he was involved with Cipher. Guns, merc contracts, the whole gamut. He wasn't a 'good guy,' just a charming one. In MGSV, he totally loses it and begins to hate Big Boss and eventually indirectly betrays Venom by training Solid Snake. He is killed by Liquid, probably at the request of Ocelot. You could theorize that Miller's contracts with Cipher allowed Skullface to discern the whereabouts of the original Motherbase.

Miller trained Solid Snake, the closest thing to an actual good guy in the series, and was pretty much the only guy that he unwaveringly trusted. That means he's a good guy, period. Not to mention unlike Paz, whose true evil alignment was foreshadowed by the letter font introducing her of all places, Miller never received such foreshadowing (his font was yellow, like all the "good guy" characters). And besides, let me remind you that in Portable Ops, Nikolai Sokolov tried to prevent the up and out nuking of the USSR when Gene left the impression that the USSR was going to be targeted by the ICBMG, and he had no love for the USSR at all (tried to defect TWICE, ultimately succeeding by the third time, ironically enough thanks to Gene). I'm pretty sure Miller would have reacted the same way. Heck, he kind of did when Paz nearly tried to nuke America. As far as Skull Face, the game makes it pretty clear that Huey or Chico was responsible for that bit, the latter by being tortured by Skull Face. Not to mention Paz (he tortured her for quite a while as well).

And as far as Che, when even the far-left magazine HuffPost denounced Che as scum, it's pretty obvious that he was evil. Besides, most of the "heroic" elements of Che were made up by the KGB, as revealed by Ion Mihai Pacepa (and he'd know, he helped the KGB form quite a few disinformation campaigns). Heck, even Ernest Hemmingway acknowledged that Che slaughtered people without a trial, with Che freely acknowledging he doesn't even bother with the evidence, and Hemmingway LIKED the guy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/this-endless-myth-making_b_151217

And BTW, here's an article from the Epoch Times, which cites both left wing and right wing sources, including Raul Castro, making clear that the good aspects of Che were lies.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/cuba-che-and-soviet-influence_2757241.html

And History in itself is never "complicated." It's people like you who refuse to discern stuff who make it such.

And for the record, when you denounced my views as right wing extremism, it's very obvious you adhere to the left, as only leftists do that.

[Holografix]

otness_e původně napsal:

Holografix původně napsal:

I haven't actually posted any of my views. Revolutionary wars and themes are complicated subjects. But I can see that your opinion of Che (and MGS) has no nuance which means you're locked into a singularly extremist viewpoint. Historical clarity is difficult especially with a difficult subject like Che or the themes of Metal Gear Solid. One way of telling whether someone's viewpoint is too extreme, or too simpleminded, is to see if it has nuance and breadth. Since you are so adamant about seeing Che one way or another, your opinion gets classified as tending towards propaganda.

You have to remember that Che was a complicated man, check out this quote from the wikipedia article about him:

"The discovery of Che's remains metonymically activated a series of interlinked associations—rebel, martyr, rogue figure from a picaresque adventure, savior, renegade, extremist—in which there was no fixed divide among them. The current court of opinion places Che on a continuum that teeters between viewing him as a misguided rebel, a coruscatingly brilliant guerrilla philosopher, a poet-warrior jousting at windmills, a brazen warrior who threw down the gauntlet to the bourgeoisie, the object of fervent paeans to his sainthood, or a mass murderer clothed in the guise of an avenging angel whose every action is imbricated in violence—the archetypal Fanatical Terrorist.
— Dr. Peter McLaren, author of Che Guevara, Paulo Freire, and the Pedagogy of Revolution

As for Miller, in Peacewalker he was involved with Cipher. Guns, merc contracts, the whole gamut. He wasn't a 'good guy,' just a charming one. In MGSV, he totally loses it and begins to hate Big Boss and eventually indirectly betrays Venom by training Solid Snake. He is killed by Liquid, probably at the request of Ocelot. You could theorize that Miller's contracts with Cipher allowed Skullface to discern the whereabouts of the original Motherbase.

Miller trained Solid Snake, the closest thing to an actual good guy in the series, and was pretty much the only guy that he unwaveringly trusted. That means he's a good guy, period. Not to mention unlike Paz, whose true evil alignment was foreshadowed by the letter font introducing her of all places, Miller never received such foreshadowing (his font was yellow, like all the "good guy" characters). And besides, let me remind you that in Portable Ops, Nikolai Sokolov tried to prevent the up and out nuking of the USSR when Gene left the impression that the USSR was going to be targeted by the ICBMG, and he had no love for the USSR at all (tried to defect TWICE, ultimately succeeding by the third time, ironically enough thanks to Gene). I'm pretty sure Miller would have reacted the same way. Heck, he kind of did when Paz nearly tried to nuke America. As far as Skull Face, the game makes it pretty clear that Huey or Chico was responsible for that bit, the latter by being tortured by Skull Face. Not to mention Paz (he tortured her for quite a while as well).

And as far as Che, when even the far-left magazine HuffPost denounced Che as scum, it's pretty obvious that he was evil. Besides, most of the "heroic" elements of Che were made up by the KGB, as revealed by Ion Mihai Pacepa (and he'd know, he helped the KGB form quite a few disinformation campaigns). Heck, even Ernest Hemmingway acknowledged that Che slaughtered people without a trial, with Che freely acknowledging he doesn't even bother with the evidence, and Hemmingway LIKED the guy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/this-endless-myth-making_b_151217

And BTW, here's an article from the Epoch Times, which cites both left wing and right wing sources, including Raul Castro, making clear that the good aspects of Che were lies.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/cuba-che-and-soviet-influence_2757241.html

And History in itself is never "complicated." It's people like you who refuse to discern stuff who make it such.

And for the record, when you denounced my views as right wing extremism, it's very obvious you adhere to the left, as only leftists do that.

Epoch times is right wing, Raul Castro is Fidel's brother. Fidel actually had a hand in Che's death. Both of those sources are dubious. And take a step back, HuffPost is not Far Left, it's not even left wing. It's just news coverage. You're really showing your rabid ignorance and radicalization on these matters and I will stop replying to you if you continue to do so. The terms far-left, far-right, I haven't used those. Those terms are mostly the empty rhetoric of political propaganda. Just because I call out your views as one thing or another, doesn't automatically put me in the opposite camp. That's a child's logic.

You are aware that the Cuban Revolution was a war, right? People were fighting with guns. Operations were undertaken, etc. To be so naive as to proclaim someone living a soldier's life is a murderer is someone whose viewpoint is too shallow. When you call Che evil, I know you're either trolling or so far gone I cannot continue having a discussion with you. I already posted that quote from wikipedia mentioning that Che was a complicated man and that his legacy can be interpreted in many ways. I think leaving it at that is the most comprehensive way of looking at it.

The issue is far more complicated that I can get into here, and I'm not going to have a political discussion with you. I can see that you might have trouble differentiating proper sources from propaganda sources and I'm not going to be your teacher. Furthermore, I don't like your takes on MGS either as it demonstrates a lack of subtly and nuance in one of my favorite game series.

[otness_e]

Holografix původně napsal:

otness_e původně napsal:

Miller trained Solid Snake, the closest thing to an actual good guy in the series, and was pretty much the only guy that he unwaveringly trusted. That means he's a good guy, period. Not to mention unlike Paz, whose true evil alignment was foreshadowed by the letter font introducing her of all places, Miller never received such foreshadowing (his font was yellow, like all the "good guy" characters). And besides, let me remind you that in Portable Ops, Nikolai Sokolov tried to prevent the up and out nuking of the USSR when Gene left the impression that the USSR was going to be targeted by the ICBMG, and he had no love for the USSR at all (tried to defect TWICE, ultimately succeeding by the third time, ironically enough thanks to Gene). I'm pretty sure Miller would have reacted the same way. Heck, he kind of did when Paz nearly tried to nuke America. As far as Skull Face, the game makes it pretty clear that Huey or Chico was responsible for that bit, the latter by being tortured by Skull Face. Not to mention Paz (he tortured her for quite a while as well).

And as far as Che, when even the far-left magazine HuffPost denounced Che as scum, it's pretty obvious that he was evil. Besides, most of the "heroic" elements of Che were made up by the KGB, as revealed by Ion Mihai Pacepa (and he'd know, he helped the KGB form quite a few disinformation campaigns). Heck, even Ernest Hemmingway acknowledged that Che slaughtered people without a trial, with Che freely acknowledging he doesn't even bother with the evidence, and Hemmingway LIKED the guy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/this-endless-myth-making_b_151217

And BTW, here's an article from the Epoch Times, which cites both left wing and right wing sources, including Raul Castro, making clear that the good aspects of Che were lies.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/cuba-che-and-soviet-influence_2757241.html

And History in itself is never "complicated." It's people like you who refuse to discern stuff who make it such.

And for the record, when you denounced my views as right wing extremism, it's very obvious you adhere to the left, as only leftists do that.

Epoch times is right wing, Raul Castro is Fidel's brother. Fidel actually had a hand in Che's death. Both of those sources are dubious. And take a step back, HuffPost is not Far Left, it's not even left wing. It's just news coverage. You're really showing your rabid ignorance and radicalization on these matters and I will stop replying to you if you continue to do so. The terms far-left, far-right, I haven't used those. Those terms are mostly the empty rhetoric of political propaganda. Just because I call out your views as one thing or another, doesn't automatically put me in the opposite camp. That's a child's logic.

You are aware that the Cuban Revolution was a war, right? People were fighting with guns. Operations were undertaken, etc. To be so naive as to proclaim someone living a soldier's life is a murderer is someone whose viewpoint is too shallow. When you call Che evil, I know you're either trolling or so far gone I cannot continue having a discussion with you. I already posted that quote from wikipedia mentioning that Che was a complicated man and that his legacy can be interpreted in many ways. I think leaving it at that is the most comprehensive way of looking at it.

The issue is far more complicated that I can get into here, because I'm not going to have a political discussion with you. I can see that you might have trouble differentiating proper sources from propaganda sources and I'm not going to be your teacher. Furthermore, I don't like your takes on MGS either as it demonstrates a lack of subtly and nuance in one of my favorite game series.

Yes, actually Huffpost IS far-left. In fact, it's generally considered one of the most far left papers out there, alongside NYT and CNN.

And while Epoch might be right-wing, Raul Castro alongside Fidel are BOTH left-wing like Che himself, which is the POINT. And maybe you haven't noticed, but the mass-produced diaries that paint Che in a good light were signed off by Fidel Castro as well, so using your logic, you should discount any "good" qualities of Che as being Castro propaganda painted by the guy who killed him as well.

Besides, plenty of Cuban emigres, many of whom also formerly worked alongside Che, have a far different picture painted of him. As did Ion Mihai Pacepa, whom if I must remind you was a Communist disinformation agent at the time he met him, a firm Communist.

And yes, you have in fact used them. Maybe not "far-left" or "far-right" per-se, but you DID denounce me as a right-wing shill, reactionary-biased, and made clear that Epoch Times was untrustworthy precisely BECAUSE it's right wing. And when you denounce anything as right wing and untrustworthy, it means you think the left is the most trustworthy out there. Only leftists resort to that kind of bit.

[Holografix]

otness_e původně napsal:

Yes, actually Huffpost IS far-left. In fact, it's generally considered one of the most far left papers out there, alongside NYT and CNN.

Ridiculous. We're done here.

[vongogh]

Western mainstream media when it comes to geopolitics promote the imperialist narrative, any Marxists are by default suggested as YOUR enemy, whoever you happen to be.

There is an Epoch Times ad on youtube where a guy typed "Communism is evil" into some make believe website, then got instant banned by that make believe platform he was on. Suggesting that Epoch Times does not censor while others do, and that they agree with the view that communism is evil, pretty straight forward, I saw this ad in 2021. Epoch Times is funded by Falun Gong, a cult that was kicked out of China, the people at Epoch Times have an axe to grind when it comes to Marxists and China. Che is Marxist, do the math.

[ShiroKuro]

https://steamcommunity.com/id/xXUnseen_TwilightXx/recommended/287700?snr=1_5_9__402

my review just in case anyone is interested

[ShiroKuro]

kojima ruined it on purpose
sucks but he dident want to make mgs anymore

[dprog1995]

Golden Twilight původně napsal:

kojima ruined it on purpose
sucks but he dident want to make mgs anymore

Nah. He wanted.

If he didn't then he would make some other games instead of spending 5-6 years of his life making MGS V.(he was Konami's vice president. He had more than enough freedom to make original ips)

[ShiroKuro]

dprog1995 původně napsal:

Golden Twilight původně napsal:

kojima ruined it on purpose
sucks but he dident want to make mgs anymore

Nah. He wanted.

If he didn't then he would make some other games instead of spending 5-6 years of his life making MGS V.(he was Konami's vice president. He had more than enough freedom to make original ips)

i soo wish what you said is true.
he said in several interviews hes done with mgs and dont want to make next game. i guess konami made him make more mgs coz mgs is famous ip and better for profit.

[otness_e]

Somdais... původně napsal:

Western mainstream media when it comes to geopolitics promote the imperialist narrative, any Marxists are by default suggested as YOUR enemy, whoever you happen to be.

There is an Epoch Times ad on youtube where a guy typed "Communism is evil" into some make believe website, then got instant banned by that make believe platform he was on. Suggesting that Epoch Times does not censor while others do, and that they agree with the view that communism is evil, pretty straight forward, I saw this ad in 2021. Epoch Times is funded by Falun Gong, a cult that was kicked out of China, the people at Epoch Times have an axe to grind when it comes to Marxists and China. Che is Marxist, do the math.

Marxists tried to exterminate ALL religion, especially Christianity. Basically continue what Voltaire and Diderot set out to do back during the Enlightenment. And don't think they didn't have a hand in Marxist views. Karl Marx himself explicitly stated his intention with Communism was to conduct a gorier remake of Robespierre's Reign of Terror. And Marx frequently read bedtime stories from Voltaire and Diderot's works via his dad as a child. Do the math there.

[otness_e]

Golden Twilight původně napsal:

dprog1995 původně napsal:

Nah. He wanted.

If he didn't then he would make some other games instead of spending 5-6 years of his life making MGS V.(he was Konami's vice president. He had more than enough freedom to make original ips)

i soo wish what you said is true.
he said in several interviews hes done with mgs and dont want to make next game. i guess konami made him make more mgs coz mgs is famous ip and better for profit.

He was responsible for the Lords of Shadow games, plus Lunar Knights and Solar Boy. Not to mention he was the vice president of Konami, aka the second-most powerful man in the company by that point, so there was truly nothing stopping him from making his own IPs. Heck, he literally had nothing stopping him from actually letting the future generation make Peace Walker without him beyond general guidelines, yet he STILL got into it due to them apparently not knowing how to make the game. And considering he sabotaged any chance at actually ALLOWING others to continue the series without him by essentially quasi-retconning Portable Ops out of existence by GZ certainly, it's pretty obvious he wants to continue with it under his direct command. Actions speak louder than words.

[vongogh]

otness_e původně napsal:

Somdais... původně napsal:

Western mainstream media when it comes to geopolitics promote the imperialist narrative, any Marxists are by default suggested as YOUR enemy, whoever you happen to be.

There is an Epoch Times ad on youtube where a guy typed "Communism is evil" into some make believe website, then got instant banned by that make believe platform he was on. Suggesting that Epoch Times does not censor while others do, and that they agree with the view that communism is evil, pretty straight forward, I saw this ad in 2021. Epoch Times is funded by Falun Gong, a cult that was kicked out of China, the people at Epoch Times have an axe to grind when it comes to Marxists and China. Che is Marxist, do the math.

Marxists tried to exterminate ALL religion, especially Christianity. Basically continue what Voltaire and Diderot set out to do back during the Enlightenment. And don't think they didn't have a hand in Marxist views. Karl Marx himself explicitly stated his intention with Communism was to conduct a gorier remake of Robespierre's Reign of Terror. And Marx frequently read bedtime stories from Voltaire and Diderot's works via his dad as a child. Do the math there.

Religion is allowed in Cuba, even China, I don't know that much about everywhere else. Although you've probably heard that China bans all religions, that would be wrong. Of course I'm talking about present times.

When you start to mix past and present, then why not include slavery in America, that's is quite recent compared to everything else, and it was under democracy, why don't you say Democracy, or American democracy favors slavery, as if nothing ever changed? Women were not even allowed to vote, you KNOW things changed. But you don't know how things changed around the world except through this things you read, which try to teach you, this or that, "those people" are bad, those ideas are evil. You trust these sources, they seem like your friend, pay money to support them, "those other people", they must be bad. No, this is control, control us so that they gain overwhelming advantage with our support, we get to stay mad at ghosts.

[otness_e]

Somdais... původně napsal:

otness_e původně napsal:

Marxists tried to exterminate ALL religion, especially Christianity. Basically continue what Voltaire and Diderot set out to do back during the Enlightenment. And don't think they didn't have a hand in Marxist views. Karl Marx himself explicitly stated his intention with Communism was to conduct a gorier remake of Robespierre's Reign of Terror. And Marx frequently read bedtime stories from Voltaire and Diderot's works via his dad as a child. Do the math there.

Religion is allowed in Cuba, even China, I don't know that much about everywhere else. Although you've probably heard that China bans all religions, that would be wrong. Of course I'm talking about present times.

When you start to mix past and present, then why not include slavery in America, that's is quite recent compared to everything else, and it was under democracy, why don't you say Democracy, or American democracy favors slavery, as if nothing ever changed? Women were not even allowed to vote, you KNOW things changed. But you don't know how things changed around the world except through this things you read, which try to teach you, this or that, "those people" are bad, those ideas are evil. You trust these sources, they seem like your friend, pay money to support them, "those other people", they must be bad. No, this is control, control us so that they gain overwhelming advantage with our support, we get to stay mad at ghosts.

It's literally a key part of Marxist doctrine. Opiate of the Masses and all of that. As far as China, they still try to destroy any Catholic churches not under their direct control (and let's face it, the Church was NEVER meant to be under Communist control), and Cuba I'm pretty sure STILL destroys Catholicism to this day. If they give the appearance of keeping the Church open, it's solely to trick you useful idiots so they could do a mass arrest. Let me relay to you a story about one of my uncles, when he visited the USSR under Brezhnev as part of a delegation from Washington DC. He went through the whole charade and bought into the lies of the Soviets during their planned tours. He then requested to go to a church. His tour guide, a KGB agent, then offered to take him to one. He then took him to a church, but then the uncle noticed quite a few people hiding from said official. Turns out the Communist rulers of the USSR were trying to manipulate tourists like my uncle into drawing out religious believers into being arrested. Fortunately, my uncle essentially saved them when he claimed it wasn't the church he was looking for. And that was late into the USSR's existence.

If anything, this backs up my claim, and that was made just last year: https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/christian-persecution-spikes-in-cuba So the persecutions against Christians in Cuba, and any religion for that matter, is FAR from over.

[GiantBullsquid]

otness_e původně napsal:

Marxists tried to exterminate ALL religion, especially Christianity. Basically continue what Voltaire and Diderot set out to do back during the Enlightenment. And don't think they didn't have a hand in Marxist views. Karl Marx himself explicitly stated his intention with Communism was to conduct a gorier remake of Robespierre's Reign of Terror. And Marx frequently read bedtime stories from Voltaire and Diderot's works via his dad as a child. Do the math there.

Voltaire didn't advocate for destruction of religion. He advocated for the separation of church and state, freedom of religion, freedom of thought, and freedom of speech. Voltaire did criticize the Catholic clergy in France a lot, because he thought they were hypocritical and abusing their authority. Keep in mind in those days, the clergy lived like nobility, and, alongside the monarchy and the nobility, were tax-exempt and lived well at the expense of everyone else. Also, before 1787, persecution of religious minorities outside of Catholicism was still in practice ever since Louis XIV revoked the Edict of Nantes in 1685. France during that time was not a fun place to live if you were lower class.

It's also important to keep in mind that in those days, France was an absolute monarchy, and anyone who criticized the clergy or the government were swiftly imprisoned in the Bastille. Voltaire was imprisoned in the Bastille multiple times for satirizing the government and the church, and he was banished from France for 25 years until he returned in 1778 and died.

Voltaire's ideas did influence the French Revolution, but he died in 1778, the year he returned after years of being exiled. The revolution didn't happened till 1789.

As for the Reign of Terror, that was entirely the doing of Robespierre and the First Republic's government, and it had nothing to do with Voltaire. The Reign of Terror initially started as a fierce desire for revenge against the monarchy and the nobility, and then it eventually was used by Robespierre as an excuse to execute counter-revolutionaries and political enemies. That ended up backfiring when Robespierre got guillotined himself, though the Reign of Terror still was going on after his death.

It's true that Robespierre massacred priests, destroyed churches and religious imagery, which I think was overkill. Whatever abuses the clergy committed, the churches and the rest of the priests didn't deserve to suffer for the crimes of the priests in charge. Especially the churches, since I'm a personal fan of medieval Catholic art, illuminated manuscripts, and stained glass windows.

Voltaire was critical of religion and Christianity, though he showed admiration for Christian nuns who were genuinely compassionate towards the poor and the needy. It was mainly the abuses and hypocrisies of the Catholic priests he detested. And there was a lot of corruption among the Catholic Churches back then. The Anglican and Lutheran churches were very severe for awhile, too.

Keep in mind, any society that's totalitarian does terrible things, no matter whether they're capitalist, communist, fascist, a theocracy, Christian, or other. People have done all kinds of bad things to each other for centuries, whether it was caused by politics, religion, suffering, or just being bad. I think it's important to challenge all kinds of totalitarianism, and not just single out some over others.

One work of Voltaire's which I think demonstrates his views best is Candide. In that novel, the hero Candide is subjected to every single disaster imaginable, but tries to convince himself that everything that happens in the world is for the best. That optimistic belief keeps getting challenged whenever Candide keeps encountering people and events that don't coincide with the idea that he's living in the best of all possible worlds. He sees good people get needlessly killed while bad people live happily, and he loses his friends and his one true love to death or misfortune. At one point, he survives an earthquake and a brutal flogging during an Inquisition in Lisbon. Eventually, Candide finds happiness, but he and his friends are still messed up by all the misery they've experienced.

Now imagine a Metal Gear Solid game that tried to adapt Candide. I think Candide's plot would suit Metal Gear's universe, if you turned Candide into a Snake-related super soldier, and have all of Candide's disasters be exaggerations of real world political problems and boss fights with metal gears.

In Candide, the hero's love, Cunégonde, gets horribly disfigured by the disasters she's subjected to, and Candide still marries her despite her snobbish brother's objections. In an alternate retelling of MGS V, I could see Quiet potentially reaching the fate of Cunégonde, physically or metaphorically I could also see Venom Snake as a hapless Candide trying to be the hero in a world where none of his actions are for the best in the best of all possible worlds. Will Venom Snake find happiness, or does he seek his femme fatale Cunégonde in vein?

I could see the Metal Gear series incorporating more references to classic satire, whether it be the works of Voltaire, Swift, or Dryden. Even references to the Manchurian Candidate and Dr. Strangelove. I think it might benefit the MGS series if they found ways to update the classic gameplay that made MGS 1+2 so good, and combined those elements with other games. Deus Ex, Tenchu, Thief, and Half-Life each have elements that would be perfect for an MGS spin-off.