Solid Snake has such a garbage personality

[Duke Mills]

If you go back after playing games featuring Big Boss, Solid Snake had such nasty speech and lacked empathy towards others.

When Drebin explains the tragic backstory of Laughing Octopus Solid just goes... "You expect me to have sympathy for her?" Other times he contradicts this behavior by letting people speak their last words like Sniper Wolf and Psycho Mantis.

Big Boss helped Chico, a child soldier. He tried to get to know people like with Cecile and her fascination for birds and avian life. Solid Snake didn't really try to perceive the world in anyone else's viewpoint and he even stood up Holly at the end of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, deciding to just seclude himself in Alaska and mush sled dogs for years.

It's gotten to the point I don't even really like looking at Solid Snake anymore.. I just think overall he's not a very likeable person.

[DrMeepy]

Big Boss is supposed to be cute and highly charismatic. Thats why he believes in Santa Claus and has a dramatic reason for being a mass murderer who enslaves and beats kids into submission before turning them into sociopaths.
REAL REASON IS...Tomokazu Fukushima stopped working on the series after metal gear 3 and he was responsible for all the awesome codec dialogs that Hayter performed well.
If you play Peacewalker and listen to the codec bits that are instead played after story mission completion its pretty clear the series went poo poo

[Deathraven13]

Big Boss was trained by the boss and spent time with people, while Solid Snake prefer to be alone and as spent the majority of his life at war, while Big Boss had many people at his side Solid was mostly alone, while BB was with the hot and popular Kaz Solid only got an ugly nerd to compare with.

BB has charisma while Solid doesn't, charisma attract people, hence why BB and solid are very different on a lot of subject, same with Venom Snake/fake big boss.

Heck even the captain in metal gear survive have more charisma Solid Snake since he/she can manage a 30 people base.

Edit:

Originally posted by Dr.Meepy:

Big Boss is supposed to be cute and highly charismatic. Thats why he believes in Santa Claus and has a dramatic reason for being a mass murderer who enslaves and beats kids into submission before turning them into sociopaths.
REAL REASON IS...Tomokazu Fukushima stopped working on the series after metal gear 3 and he was responsible for all the awesome codec dialogs that Hayter performed well.
If you play Peacewalker and listen to the codec bits that are instead played after story mission completion its pretty clear the series went poo poo

I agree, finaly some else saw that Fukushima did an amazing job instead of giving all the credits to Kojima.

[DR. JOHN DEJAVU 1984]

Originally posted by DukeVicBoss:

If you go back after playing games featuring Big Boss, Solid Snake had such nasty speech and lacked empathy towards others.

When Drebin explains the tragic backstory of Laughing Octopus Solid just goes... "You expect me to have sympathy for her?" Other times he contradicts this behavior by letting people speak their last words like Sniper Wolf and Psycho Mantis.

Big Boss helped Chico, a child soldier. He tried to get to know people like with Cecile and her fascination for birds and avian life. Solid Snake didn't really try to perceive the world in anyone else's viewpoint and he even stood up Holly at the end of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, deciding to just seclude himself in Alaska and mush sled dogs for years.

It's gotten to the point I don't even really like looking at Solid Snake anymore.. I just think overall he's not a very likeable person.

Well Big Boss had ethics and a reason to live up to.

Solid Snake was just his clone and he was meant or so told "Intended" or even "setup"
to be a living war machine... Soulless after murdering his father's Doppelgänger.

Going through the most intense training and I am assuming this since Solid Snake was a green beret and trained to the top ranks of foxhound to the point he can raid a highly defensed base built by BB and named "Outer Heaven" all by himself but accompanied by Miller in order to retain his sanity and focus the mission.

Solid Snake didn't have a thorough life, for all we know he could've been placed in camp to reserve in for military school and go to training compared to liquid who atleast had a more civilized life with Zero before leaving him to Africa. It almost seemed like Solid should've been with Zero but that've been in Zero's cause, making No theory against metal gear.

That's why Solid Snake tries to kill himself in the end of MGS4 because
he knows that he was used by the patriots and set up with foxdie just to be
a dedicated war machine and killer. He felt he was worthless and had nothing to live
for but to be used and betrayed.

Big Boss wasn't setup, he was training with The Boss but atleast had ethics and knew where he was going in life, rather then be setup or made to fight lifelessly for somebody
elses cause rather than his own. That's why he made MSF, to fight "outside the borders"
and what he thought the Boss wanted.

In Solid Snake's case he was born setup by Zero- He doesn't realize his depressing matters til the end when Big Boss (His father) comes to correct him and tell him
his worths. Fighting would be worthless, Fighting is worthless, that's what makes you worthless.

What made Big Boss worthless, what made Solid Snake worthless.

Big Boss wanted Solid Snake to stop fighting because
if he continued to do so, he wouldn't have anymore to live for and
he wouldn't even question it.

It's better to enjoy life rather than contribute in fighting it-
especially if you did your part..

It's time to stop and look at yourself to see what you were meant
to do then worthlessly fight.

[Lar Dass]

The iraq war changed him

[DR. JOHN DEJAVU 1984]

Originally posted by Lar Dass:

The iraq war changed him

More than just that- if you read my comment,
it theorizes on how he may have have been soulless
from the start

[Lar Dass]

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot:

Originally posted by Lar Dass:

The iraq war changed him

More than just that- if you read my comment,
it theorizes on how he may have have been soulless
from the start

No offense but i dont wanna read a wall of text. Where's the tldr

[DR. JOHN DEJAVU 1984]

Originally posted by Lar Dass:

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot:

More than just that- if you read my comment,
it theorizes on how he may have have been soulless
from the start

No offense but i dont wanna read a wall of text. Where's the tldr

To summarize;

Unlike Big Boss who had ethics and reasons to live up to since he
is not a clone or "war machine" setup by zero who cloned big boss creating
Solid Snake who was theorized to go through intense training and
Pyschological warfare to make him a killer and war machine essentially making Solid Snake Soulless. That's why he tries to kill himself at the end of MGS4 and salutes Big Boss's grave.

But BB corrected him before he became completely soulless to tell him to enjoy life and
understand that his part in the story is over.

That's essentially what Im saying but if you want a better explanation you can try to read the wall of text.

[ColdNhungry]

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot:

Originally posted by Lar Dass:

No offense but i dont wanna read a wall of text. Where's the tldr

To summarize;

Unlike Big Boss who had ethics and reasons to live up to since he
is not a clone or "war machine" setup by zero who cloned big boss creating
Solid Snake who was theorized to go through intense training and
Pyschological warfare to make him a killer and war machine essentially making Solid Snake Soulless. That's why he tries to kill himself at the end of MGS4 and salutes Big Boss's grave.

But BB corrected him before he became completely soulless to tell him to enjoy life and
understand that his part in the story is over.

That's essentially what Im saying but if you want a better explanation you can try to read the wall of text.

That's pretty much the gist of it. The only positive thing he inherited from Big Boss were his genes, but the environment he grew up in would determine what kind of person he is, considering the kind described he'd have a limited worldview. He might not even acknowledge let alone comprehend those limitations. Then put him through the events of mgs1.. on top of that, any attempts thereafter to start a new life are cut short by his accelerated aging.

I'd be a grumpy old f***.

[mdesaleah]

Big Boss- made a separate military nation on his own, captured children to force them to fight, build giant illegal nuclear launching tanks, hid nukes underwater before an inspection, helped a Cuban revolutionary group mainly to get them on his side, Definitively not hero.
Solid Snake- selflessly built a non profit organization to prevent Metal Gears, does not see himself as a hero, went out of retirement multiple times to help stop war, helped a child soldier recover from his experiences. Definitely a hero to most extent.

[~⁧⁧kapacb]

Originally posted by DukeVicBoss:

If you go back after playing games featuring Big Boss, Solid Snake had such nasty speech and lacked empathy towards others.

Agree, Hayters performance is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ terrible starting from mgs3(awkward mix of stupid voice tone, wierd acting and sort of flurting manner of speaking). Although i dont think you right about empathy.

Originally posted by DukeVicBoss:

When Drebin explains the tragic backstory of Laughing Octopus Solid just goes... "You expect me to have sympathy for her?"

Yeah, i would react same way and mostly because of the way Drebin talks, gives you this information (poorly designed and written (in wierd Japanese way))

"MURLL!!!" - Old Snake

[JasonBourne]

At first let me clarify something,this post is about the character thus the writing of the story and backgrounds of the characters.Voice-overs is a tottally different thing and adds depth,but if a character is badly written,then no voice-over perfomance can make him interesting.


Big Boss story is somewhat basic and mainstream,a talented soldier who is ordered to execute-assasinate his mentor and a hero by his country.Big Boss doesn't ever get over that,nor forgives his country ever.It is that moment that defines him thereafter for ever. That kind of situation is known to novels and stories and somewhat basic and mainstream.It is called a twist.


Solid Snake is just a guy with a talent for killing in the battlefield or so he thinks,he is trained in green berets and also in virtual realities and after showing promising records, they send him solo to infiltrate outer heaven,a large scale terrorist PF.He accepts his orders and gets the job done.After sometime they call him back to infiltrate Zanzibar Land and delivers once again.That's when he is told by the terrorist leader that he is his father,when they are one on one in the battlefield. Nevertheless he carries on his orders and takes out Big Boss once more.

After that he leaves because his is not just a random soldier anymore,he realizes he is connected to all of this,this was his fate,this was his role.And don't forget he commits patricide,a psychologically devastating deed no matter the orders,morals or ideals,it is natural to think this is too much to bear.He rebels inside and leaves only to find out he cannot really leave some years later and the events of Shadow Moses.

After that it becomes clear to him that he belongs in the battlefield,he was meant to be in the battlefield.But as Big Boss rebeled against the forces that ordered him to kill his mentor,Solid Snake does not rebel,he does not twist.He stays loyal to his goal,his end which is to free people of the patriots control,get rid of metal gears they spawn at him and just continue to be the hero,to be where anyone else would not. In plain words he choses to use his genes to pass on his own information and stay true to himself.

So,he took Big Boss down twice,his father,took his twin brother down and continues to fight the rest of the patriots puppets.He forms Philanthropy that includes himself and a volunteer he saved out of Shadow Moses,someone Big Boss would make develop a new metal gear for using it for the right cause,or just for deterence.He continues to fight alone and he doesn't go trying to build his nation and take on the world.He uses his genes for good,and he is definetely the protagonist and the hero.
Big Boss is a hero gone twisted,plainly an anti-hero.



Reference
In MGS,Solid Snake,when things get critical,he says he is gonna save Meryl because he doesn't need an excuse,he is gonna save her for himself and Naomi is left confused.
In MGV GZ Big Boss asks if they are gonna 'silence' Paz because she knows too much,and Miller says not yet and we know the rest.

[Krona🥶]

It's like reading boomer metal gear forum threads from 2009, atleast those people had decent knowledge on the lore and weren't inconsistent with what they know

[Krona🥶]

So much wokeness in your opinion

[DR. JOHN DEJAVU 1984]

Originally posted by CreepingCloser:

It's like reading boomer metal gear forum threads from 2009, atleast those people had decent knowledge on the lore and weren't inconsistent with what they know

and mentioning that helps us with what?

[Krona🥶]

Originally posted by JasonBourne:

At first let me clarify something,this post is about the character thus the writing of the story and backgrounds of the characters.Voice-overs is a tottally different thing and adds depth,but if a character is badly written,then no voice-over perfomance can make him interesting.


Big Boss story is somewhat basic and mainstream,a talented soldier who is ordered to execute-assasinate his mentor and a hero by his country.Big Boss doesn't ever get over that,nor forgives his country ever.It is that moment that defines him thereafter for ever. That kind of situation is known to novels and stories and somewhat basic and mainstream.It is called a twist.


Solid Snake is just a guy with a talent for killing in the battlefield or so he thinks,he is trained in green berets and also in virtual realities and after showing promising records, they send him solo to infiltrate outer heaven,a large scale terrorist PF.He accepts his orders and gets the job done.After sometime they call him back to infiltrate Zanzibar Land and delivers once again.That's when he is told by the terrorist leader that he is his father,when they are one on one in the battlefield. Nevertheless he carries on his orders and takes out Big Boss once more.

After that he leaves because his is not just a random soldier anymore,he realizes he is connected to all of this,this was his fate,this was his role.And don't forget he commits patricide,a psychologically devastating deed no matter the orders,morals or ideals,it is natural to think this is too much to bear.He rebels inside and leaves only to find out he cannot really leave some years later and the events of Shadow Moses.

After that it becomes clear to him that he belongs in the battlefield,he was meant to be in the battlefield.But as Big Boss rebeled against the forces that ordered him to kill his mentor,Solid Snake does not rebel,he does not twist.He stays loyal to his goal,his end which is to free people of the patriots control,get rid of metal gears they spawn at him and just continue to be the hero,to be where anyone else would not. In plain words he choses to use his genes to pass on his own information and stay true to himself.

So,he took Big Boss down twice,his father,took his twin brother down and continues to fight the rest of the patriots puppets.He forms Philanthropy that includes himself and a volunteer he saved out of Shadow Moses,someone Big Boss would make develop a new metal gear for using it for the right cause,or just for deterence.He continues to fight alone and he doesn't go trying to build his nation and take on the world.He uses his genes for good,and he is definetely the protagonist and the hero.
Big Boss is a hero gone twisted,plainly an anti-hero.



Reference
In MGS,Solid Snake,when things get critical,he says he is gonna save Meryl because he doesn't need an excuse,he is gonna save her for himself and Naomi is left confused.
In MGV GZ Big Boss asks if they are gonna 'silence' Paz because she knows too much,and Miller says not yet and we know the rest.

Bb was a tool with anarcho god-complex, Solid was a chad centrist that even when nihilistic was compassionate and formed an anti terrorism ngo which makes his character generally more interesting if you don't take everything for face value. (To top that off, he actually accomplished what BB's mentor wanted him to do)

Some people lean towards liking BB as a character and can't stand Solid Snake probably cause they can """""relate""""" to him in some ways because he made terrible decisions and seems to have the emotions of an average joe

There is a trash fan theory about doomguy in the new doomgames that makes him more "relatable" as a human, which most people even go as far to regard as fact. It's ridiculous. Probs a good example.

People usually strive for looking for something that relates to them in a character, fandoms will defend it no matter what. While it's true nobody usually likes a "Mary Sue" but I can assure you, no character in Metal Gear is a Mary Sue.