What is the point of raid mode grinding?

[Panda]

The chances of a drop are ridiculously low.

Also...seemingly pointless? Unless they're introducing a "code purple" or something I'm basically done with raid mode. Code Red is completable with just level 95 store weapons and no exclusive parts, you don't need wesker or evade cancel either.

I just see no point in playing the grind if I can already complete everything. In Revelations 1 Abyss was ridiculously hard and you earned massive rewards for getting all the emblems - the only way to get some of the really good mods that you needed to win. Now that you can't do that, and medallions are meaningless (not to mention, incredibly easy to get), coupled with the extremely small and linear levels, make grinding seem pointless.

My friend and I are 6 levels from the end of Code Red, and we've gotten a total of FOUR level 100 weapons, both just reds, 2 of which were completely worthless SMGs.

Other grievances I have:

1. SMGs are worthless. I'm glad they split off SMGs and ARs from the first game, so you have one category of weapon that you can just completely ignore.

2. The amount of grinding required is insane...for no benefit. Unlike in Rev1, where the grind was predictable, but hard, the grind here is easy as hell, mindless, but extremely long. You are rewarded purely for how long you play, not at all for how well you play.

3. Level 100 weapons have no indicator of how much they've been upgraded. Frustrating when you unexpectedly hit a cap.

4. Its a joke to have level 20 cap for mod levels. The highest i've seen drop is 10-11, at like a 1% chance. This means you need literally >1000 of them to craft a level 20. So with a 1% drop chance, you're looking at 20000 games for 1 level 20. No thanks.

5. The characters have surprisingly LESS uniqueness than Rev1. No specialty, no distinct melee attacks (HUNK the only one I know, I assume wesker too).

6. Skills are incredibly uninteresting for the most part, aside from the ones that are must haves. 20 levels of a 5% boost is not fun. I'd much rather all the skills be incredibly unique, incredibly powerful, and actually have meaning to choose between. Perhaps ones that define a class as an archetype (sniper, melee, etc), instead of taking like 4 skills for one thing.

7. Magic pixel is the most broken thing ever. You are invincible if you get hit only once every 5 seconds. You are invincible if you have any level of life steal equipped on a magnum or antimaterial rifle.

8. Bottles are really, really good.

9. Rocket launcher is almost required.

10. Having DLC characters sucks ass.

[Panda]

Oh no, all that gold that I'm missing, to upgrade all those weapons that I don't have! Ohhhh nooooooooooooooooooo

Also I guess I didn't realize the whole point of the game was to shoot at an immobile, zero threat target, in order to chart on the leaderboards...?

I am not saying that isn't a good thing to strive for, but when you say I "won't understand the point of raid mode" I question whether you thought having 50 stagesx4 was the point of raid mode...or one event that happened for 3 days where about 0.01% of the participants got the actual reward...or did they not even hand the reward out yet? hrm.

Please take the above as tongue in cheek ^^

I have no intention of insulting anyone's playstyle, I'm just wondering if anyone else feels the grind is a little light on rewards and heavy on time investment.

The game may also just be a little "too easy". I don't say that in the sort of elitist humblebrag way that oh man, i'm so good at the game (i'm not, I routinely die on code red), but as in the fact that it is beatable without any of the grind...I would much rather the difficulty be much higher, and the grind much more rewarding as a result.

@lanza - I do see what you're saying. I'm playing with a friend who only has one char leveled (HUNK), and while HUNK is very good, he isn't as good as having rocket launcher. A lot of the stages are much harder w/o them, mostly the ones with the super bulletsponge superfast sawblade guys from Rev1. They are dangerous.

[3RDplayer]

^ I must agree with panda on the fact that the time investment / result ratio is really very far apart. Finished Code Red in Co-Op twice in a row (around 2-3h lenght each playthrough) and from the rough 200 stages only 5 weapons worth it and only 1 or 2 were rainbows. In Raid1 it took too long to level up, but the rewards seemed to be faster coming while Raid2 switches that dynamic around. Best example, the auto-shot part. It doesnt drop (at least for me) no mather how many playthroughs of all stages that will follow in the next couple of weeks.

What Raid2 misses is the chance to win weapons for a fair amount of work.

[paddybud]

LOL..Are you complaining about it's hard to get good weapons in REV2?

In fact it's much easier than REV1, in which you can only grind Ghostship at least for 10mins to get 6 weapon/part chests.

The point of REV2 raid mode, so far, it's about getting your character and gears more powerful.

However, you might find it meaningless. And about the "longer time invested, the more powerful " complaint, I would say this is almost a truth about everything.

[WingstoneDayz]

Publicado originalmente por Panda:

I'm pretty sure running around dying with life crystals is not the intended gameplay.

SMGs are pretty pointless. You get over 20x the power with the same dps if you full auto a handgun, with much better ammo usage as well. Fire ammo works perfectly fine on a handgun as well.

The SMG base damage is around 100 (level 90, vs lvl 105). Handguns output almost 1.5k. Handguns have about 1/3rd the clip and 1/3rd the ammo/pickup. But 15x the damage? yes please.

Plus you don't even need full burst on it, just a burst1 or burst2 and you're golden, no recoil either.

People that think smgs are good dps don't like to aim, or something? You certainly don't need the fire rate. A burst pistol does same dps and doesn't require full clips to do anything. Also doesn't necessarily require fire ammo to even work.

You can kill neil at level 90 with a single crouch + electric + rocket launcher.

I don't mean that rocket launcher is "required" in that you can't beat the game without it. I'm sure you can beat the game with a knife if you wanted to. But it makes kills so much faster that it is required for any sort of grind or quick progression.

People are saying they beat the game without crouch or rocket launcher, like thats a good thing. Why? Purposefully gimping yourself is not the point of the game.

I am not really bashing the game's fun factor or something. Thats not what I'm going for. If you enjoy the game, sure, go ahead! Not picking on your playstyle =)

But what I mean is the drop rates for weapons are so absurdedly low, similarly, the grind of ranking up parts is too long. Most players, by beating the game, will perhaps get 1, maybe 2 lvl 100 drops total. And you can do it fairly easily, its not like even getting a level 100 weapon will make your runs much easier or much faster. So that is where I am not really understanding the point of the weapon grind.

If you like playing the game, sure. But I see people talking about reloading V-3 hundreds of times for a gun. Why? That just doesn't seem fun to me, nor does it actually seem like playing the game.

I've beaten raid mode now and likely will not keep playing this =/

I do have a few suggestions though

1. Allow low level weapons to be upgraded in level, up to level 100. I'm sure all of you have gotten an awesome purple or red low level weapon that you were dying to use, but had to throw away because its not level 90+. Make it expensive, so that the gold grind is useful too.

2. Make only blue and higher mods and weapons drop in Code Red. Make only level 100 weapons drop. Scale it so that they drop in proportion to how much black, yellow, blue drops scaled prior to Code Red.

3. Up difficulty of code red more, or add code purple as a level 100 set of missions. Perhaps make the drop rates higher in this one like stated in 2.

4. Make medallions mean something. Whether its gold bonus, or a 5th item drop (guaranteed to be high quality).

You're a genius! Your opinion needs more publicity. Please, save your comment somewhere so you can use it on Capcom and raise the issue in the future conveniently! Props to you. We all wanted it. But we couldn't explain so well like you.

[StarExile]

What do u even know about the grind??? Lineage 2, Diablo 3, Final Fantasy Realm Reborn, Warframe - DO YOU EVEN TRY TO GRIND IN THIS GAMES?
RE Rev.2 is pretty casual game, you want to make a simple game more easier or what?

[Ataraxia ♥]

lmao, of course people have to whine about everything.

[Panda]

Its not so much that the grind is long, but that the grind is long AND (seemingly) pointless.

Lin2 and FF14 are MMOs who's main purpose is grinding, you really can't compare a shooter like Rev2 to it.

Warframe is a freemium game again, where the main point is the grind.

But you are missing the point again.

The point isn't that there is long grind. The point is that the grind is pointless. You don't NEED to grind.

In MMOs you NEED to grind to beat the best bosses. You NEED to grind before the bosses become easy enough to farm. In this game you don't need to do anything, you can get through the entire game, extremely easily, without any grind, without doing anything but buying guns from the shop.

I hope noone reads this and goes "oh man capcom, you should increase the code red difficulty AGAIN, while not doing anything about drops!". Hell no! Why would I want to wade through the same stuff, but harder, and still get nothing out of it?

In Rev1 the grind was long, but you had incentives to do well (unique, BEST part drops from trinity bonus), AND you needed the grind to get the very best items to beat ghost ship easily. In Rev2 the grind is long, you have NO incentives to do well (might as well just blow through CR on lvl 100), and you have NO reason to even need the grind.

You see the difference here? Not in the length of grind perhaps. But in how the grind is accomplished and the how rewards are not commensurate with the time investment.

EDIT: I had another idea of how to make the grind more rewarding. Make every level have the 4th (code red) chest guarantee a weapon. Doesn't have to guarantee anything about quality, but make sure a weapon drops every stage. Last thing I want to see is 4 mods.

[Panda]

I'd certainly be up for another difficulty level, IF they made it so you could progress through it without hundreds of hours of grinding.

I am exactly making the point that the main point of raid mode isn't to grind for levels and gear.

If you can beat it at level 90 without any grinding, what is the point of the grind? If you can buy weapons that are perfectly adequate for killing the final boss, straight out of the store, what is the point of grinding for a rainbow weapon?

There will always be people that do it for the sake of having something "awesome", for the sake of achievements, etc, but my point is for the majority of people they want to complete raid mode, and thats doable without any of that, not even close.

Imagine for a second that FF14, as soon as you hit level cap, you could just waltz up and complete all of bahamut's coil. Do you imagine that people would raid it for long? Unlikely, and yet that is what Rev2 is like. Better yet, imagine that you could raid at level 50, why would someone grind to level 60? Again, this is what Rev2 is like.

Imagine again, that in FF14, when you killed a boss in bahamut's coil, it has a 0.1% chance of dropping an item for you. 99.9% of the time it drops nothing for your entire raid.

Again, do you think people would raid it for long? Again, this is exactly what Rev2 is like.

You see the dilemma here.

[3RDplayer]

Casuals play it for a bit and stop playing.
Gamers play it with one character through to lvl100 and stop playing.
Hardcore gamers play it until they have unlocked all records/rewards and are satisfied.
Everything else is pure waste of time. I'm already wasting time only for that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ auto shot to unlock the stupid parts pundit and I would be done. Hell I'm so bored of Raid2 right now that I even played Rev1 Raid up to lvl 40 in the last couple of days. LOL

[WingstoneDayz]

Publicado originalmente por Kagome:

Publicado originalmente por Panda:

I'd certainly be up for another difficulty level, IF they made it so you could progress through it without hundreds of hours of grinding.

I am exactly making the point that the main point of raid mode isn't to grind for levels and gear.

If you can beat it at level 90 without any grinding, what is the point of the grind? If you can buy weapons that are perfectly adequate for killing the final boss, straight out of the store, what is the point of grinding for a rainbow weapon?

There will always be people that do it for the sake of having something "awesome", for the sake of achievements, etc, but my point is for the majority of people they want to complete raid mode, and thats doable without any of that, not even close.

Imagine for a second that FF14, as soon as you hit level cap, you could just waltz up and complete all of bahamut's coil. Do you imagine that people would raid it for long? Unlikely, and yet that is what Rev2 is like. Better yet, imagine that you could raid at level 50, why would someone grind to level 60? Again, this is what Rev2 is like.

Imagine again, that in FF14, when you killed a boss in bahamut's coil, it has a 0.1% chance of dropping an item for you. 99.9% of the time it drops nothing for your entire raid.

Again, do you think people would raid it for long? Again, this is exactly what Rev2 is like.

You see the dilemma here.

rather than pick all this apart. ill just say

different people different things, it only becomes pointless once you stop having fun and enjoyment with what ever it may be that you're doing. the point of games is just that, to have fun and relax etc etc.

You are absolutely correct on that. Since when did games become as serious as the workplaces? These efforts to grind and climb to the top are attractions for developers to make consumers make their games relevant. It's human nature to take something as their best. As such, today is the consequence of the human inherent nature. Anyways, I'll love to have weapons that can be level upgraded and tag to be edited.