C'tan Shards in Story Mode

[Slim_Cognito]

The Avatar of Khaine and Greater Daemons, especially the Greater Daemon had made a powerful presence among the DOW 1 and 2 games. But in DoW 3, i think it's time for the C'tan Shards to shine. Even being small pieces of their former selves, the C'tan Shards are beings of near infinite power. A Shard of Nyadra'zatha was able to destroy a special Tyranid Bio Titan with the heat of twenty suns and this bio titan was immune to the anti matter weapon from multiple Necron Monoliths. A Shard of Yggra'nya's thoughts could break apart a planet and reshape it. Another Shard of Yggra'nya broke a moon apart and send its pieces towards a Necron World Engine, heavily damaging it. A Shard of the Void Dragon destroyed 12 Necron Dynasty Worlds before being forced back to its prison. Another Void Dragon Shard fought the God Emperor but was defeated and imprisoned under Mars.

The Greater Daemons/Daemon Princes has mostly been shown as the big threat in DOW 1 and 2, especially in DoW 2. I think the C'tan Shards should have the spotlight as being the true big threat for DoW 3. The Shards are diverse and unique enough to make for a interesting super enemy in the story. Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes should still be great threats toward the story of DoW 3 of course but the C'tan Shards should have more focus this time overall. The Avatar of Khaine didn't really have its chance to shine as a big powerhouse in the story of the Dawn of War games but thats because it's too simple and plain. Every Avatar is like the same so its not as interesting as the more diverse Greater Daemons and C'tan Shards.

[datguy13]

The Greater Daemons are nowhere near as powerful, and the Daemon Prince in Retribution was brand new and had few of his powers under his control. So there's a pretty simple explanation for why it's probably a bad idea to put in Necron Mary Sue Gods: What would be the point, when you can't win?

The scale of the DoW games are unit-size combat. In order to take out one of the things you're talking about, it would require a massive Battlefleet and Epic scale combat using hundreds of Titans... and from the sound of it, even that probably won't be enough to stop something that can "destroy 12 Dynasty Worlds". The scope of the game simply can't work with something that powerful while maintaining its authenticity. That's why we won't see a Chaos God get personally blitzed in any of these games either.

[Slim_Cognito]

Originally posted by datguy13:

The Greater Daemons are nowhere near as powerful, and the Daemon Prince in Retribution was brand new and had few of his powers under his control. So there's a pretty simple explanation for why it's probably a bad idea to put in Necron Mary Sue Gods: What would be the point, when you can't win?

The scale of the DoW games are unit-size combat. In order to take out one of the things you're talking about, it would require a massive Battlefleet and Epic scale combat using hundreds of Titans... and from the sound of it, even that probably won't be enough to stop something that can "destroy 12 Dynasty Worlds". The scope of the game simply can't work with something that powerful while maintaining its authenticity. That's why we won't see a Chaos God get personally blitzed in any of these games either.

Every C'tan was shattered into many Shards, some Shards are stronger then others. they can just have a very small shard so it won't be anywhere as strong as many of the other shards but still dangerous enough to be a threat to the sector, kinda like Ukair and Kyras. They were both a threat to the sector. Ukaiar was so powerful that the entire planet of Aurelia was being effected by his presence and we still kicked his ass. Since DOW 3 allow us to field a much bigger army than DOW 2. We can easily do the same thing to a C'tan Shard.

[Emperor's Will]

Originally posted by Mad Max Swamp:

Originally posted by datguy13:

The Greater Daemons are nowhere near as powerful, and the Daemon Prince in Retribution was brand new and had few of his powers under his control. So there's a pretty simple explanation for why it's probably a bad idea to put in Necron Mary Sue Gods: What would be the point, when you can't win?

The scale of the DoW games are unit-size combat. In order to take out one of the things you're talking about, it would require a massive Battlefleet and Epic scale combat using hundreds of Titans... and from the sound of it, even that probably won't be enough to stop something that can "destroy 12 Dynasty Worlds". The scope of the game simply can't work with something that powerful while maintaining its authenticity. That's why we won't see a Chaos God get personally blitzed in any of these games either.

Every C'tan was shattered into many Shards, some Shards are stronger then others. they can just have a very small shard so it won't be anywhere as strong as many of the other shards but still dangerous enough to be a threat to the sector, kinda like Ukair and Kyras. They were both a threat to the sector. Ukaiar was so powerful that the entire planet of Aurelia was being effected by his presence and we still kicked his ass. Since DOW 3 allow us to field a much bigger army than DOW 2. We can easily do the same thing to a C'tan Shard.

First off Ulkair and Kyras we're just getting their powers that wasn't their ful
1. The moment Ulkair woke up Captain Gabriel Angelos and the Player Captain attack him. That's why he was just laughing the deamon was nothing more than a powerful thought projection.
2. Yes Kyras is a powerful Psyker but that doesnt mean he could control his deamon form on the get go.
3. C'tan Shards are dangerous there's no such thing as a weak shard. These shards are older, has more experience, and much more stronger than anything (besides Chaos Gods cause immaterium and warp and such,and also EMPS) a simple deceiver shard caused a 12th Black Crusade and also if you're reffering to that "weak shard" that Ferrus Manus slew which he fought for a very long time and the only way he could kill it is keeping it in magma. that "fragment" if it was a fragment has gone feral since all shards have consciusness.

[Slim_Cognito]

Originally posted by Emperor's Will:

Originally posted by Mad Max Swamp:

Every C'tan was shattered into many Shards, some Shards are stronger then others. they can just have a very small shard so it won't be anywhere as strong as many of the other shards but still dangerous enough to be a threat to the sector, kinda like Ukair and Kyras. They were both a threat to the sector. Ukaiar was so powerful that the entire planet of Aurelia was being effected by his presence and we still kicked his ass. Since DOW 3 allow us to field a much bigger army than DOW 2. We can easily do the same thing to a C'tan Shard.

First off Ulkair and Kyras we're just getting their powers that wasn't their ful
1. The moment Ulkair woke up Captain Gabriel Angelos and the Player Captain attack him. That's why he was just laughing the deamon was nothing more than a powerful thought projection.
2. Yes Kyras is a powerful Psyker but that doesnt mean he could control his deamon form on the get go.
3. C'tan Shards are dangerous there's no such thing as a weak shard. These shards are older, has more experience, and much more stronger than anything (besides Chaos Gods cause immaterium and warp and such,and also EMPS) a simple deceiver shard caused a 12th Black Crusade and also if you're reffering to that "weak shard" that Ferrus Manus slew which he fought for a very long time and the only way he could kill it is keeping it in magma. that "fragment" if it was a fragment has gone feral since all shards have consciusness.

I agree that there are no weak Shards but certain Shards are weaker than others. It just depends on how big that specific Shard is. We can still get a boss fight ingame with a Shard in story mode. Even if our army isn't strong enough to kill it, we can still fight and weaken it enough for it to be bombed with orbital strike similar to Kyras's fight. Or in the story maybe Angelos has stolen a Necron artifact so once we weaken it enough, he'll use that artifact to seal the Shard back in its prison.

And that Shard that Ferrus slained seems extremely weak, i mean dying cause of magma? Any Greater Daemons or Avatar of Khaines would laugh at magma.

[datguy13]

So basically, what you want to see is one Mary Sue pitted against another Mary Sue using a plot device that is part of a merchandizing scam. Yeah, cuz that always produces quality narrative, right?

You know, Necron Lords are powerful enough to be arch-villains in their own right, and probably would make for just as compelling antagonists without all the power inflation.

[Slim_Cognito]

Originally posted by datguy13:

So basically, what you want to see is one Mary Sue pitted against another Mary Sue using a plot device that is part of a merchandizing scam. Yeah, cuz that always produces quality narrative, right?

You know, Necron Lords are powerful enough to be arch-villains in their own right, and probably would make for just as compelling antagonists without all the power inflation.

A Necron Lord is far too weak to be a big threat. You don't see a regular Farseer or a Chaos Lord being the big bad for the other DOW 2 games. It' was always a a Greater Daemon, Daemon Prince etc. This is the perfect chance for them to make a C'tan Shard appear in the game canon What reason would there be for them to not appear? This is the perfect time for them to show off all the cool newcrons and shards since the necron retcon.

And i do not want to see a "Mary Sue" get pitted against another "Mary Sue". That'll be too of a DBZ feeling. What i think should happen is a escaped C'tan Shard wrecking havoc upon a planet and the Space Marine and Eldar has to ally together and tried to overwhelm this Shard. It'll make for a epic boss battle.

[Emperor's Will]

Originally posted by Mad Max Swamp:

Originally posted by datguy13:

So basically, what you want to see is one Mary Sue pitted against another Mary Sue using a plot device that is part of a merchandizing scam. Yeah, cuz that always produces quality narrative, right?

You know, Necron Lords are powerful enough to be arch-villains in their own right, and probably would make for just as compelling antagonists without all the power inflation.

A Necron Lord is far too weak to be a big threat. You don't see a regular Farseer or a Chaos Lord being the big bad for the other DOW 2 games. It' was always a a Greater Daemon, Daemon Prince etc. This is the perfect chance for them to make a C'tan Shard appear in the game canon What reason would there be for them to not appear? This is the perfect time for them to show off all the cool newcrons and shards since the necron retcon.

And i do not want to see a "Mary Sue" get pitted against another "Mary Sue". That'll be too of a DBZ feeling. What i think should happen is a escaped C'tan Shard wrecking havoc upon a planet and the Space Marine and Eldar has to ally together and tried to overwhelm this Shard. It'll make for a epic boss battle.

And then right before the ending eldar will betray you for all time sake

[datguy13]

Originally posted by Mad Max Swamp:

A Necron Lord is far too weak to be a big threat. You don't see a regular Farseer or a Chaos Lord being the big bad for the other DOW 2 games. It' was always a a Greater Daemon, Daemon Prince etc. This is the perfect chance for them to make a C'tan Shard appear in the game canon What reason would there be for them to not appear? This is the perfect time for them to show off all the cool newcrons and shards since the necron retcon.

Of course, you don't see the problem with that statement.

Here, this is how simple it is: The writers of all of the Dawn of War games chose to use "Overwhelming Power" as the main point of conflict in the narrative, rather than taking the time to create a villain with intelligence, savvy and character. They went for the quick and dirty narrative that allows them to just toss together a basic premise of Good Guy v Big Bad. It's hackneyed and lazy.

Originally posted by Mad Max Swamp:

And i do not want to see a "Mary Sue" get pitted against another "Mary Sue". That'll be too of a DBZ feeling. What i think should happen is a escaped C'tan Shard wrecking havoc upon a planet and the Space Marine and Eldar has to ally together and tried to overwhelm this Shard. It'll make for a epic boss battle.

I got some bad news for you...

Gabriel Angelos and the Blood Ravens are a Mary Sue. They completely go against Warhammer 40,000 lore and canon by possessing relics of other Chapters and by not knowing their Primarch. Just the sheer implication that their Primarch might actually have been a Traitor Legion Primarch is a ridiculous violation of canon and over-the-top. The survivors of the Horus Heresy who were not on the side of the Traitor legions were executed, and there were very, very few of them after Horus had the Traitor Primarchs purge their own ranks. There is no conceivable way that the Blood Ravens could exist, unless they were Deus ex Machina'd into existence.

As for the Necrons? Robot Space Zombies who are virtually unkillable. Say that aloud. Then come back and try to tell me they aren't Mary Sue's again. I'm not even going to get into the "Shards of a bunch of World-Killing Gods" ♥♥♥♥, that's self-explanatory for anyone who's not blinded by the childish 'kewl-factor'.

[Slim_Cognito]

Originally posted by datguy13:

Originally posted by Mad Max Swamp:

A Necron Lord is far too weak to be a big threat. You don't see a regular Farseer or a Chaos Lord being the big bad for the other DOW 2 games. It' was always a a Greater Daemon, Daemon Prince etc. This is the perfect chance for them to make a C'tan Shard appear in the game canon What reason would there be for them to not appear? This is the perfect time for them to show off all the cool newcrons and shards since the necron retcon.

Of course, you don't see the problem with that statement.

Here, this is how simple it is: The writers of all of the Dawn of War games chose to use "Overwhelming Power" as the main point of conflict in the narrative, rather than taking the time to create a villain with intelligence, savvy and character. They went for the quick and dirty narrative that allows them to just toss together a basic premise of Good Guy v Big Bad. It's hackneyed and lazy.

Originally posted by Mad Max Swamp:

And i do not want to see a "Mary Sue" get pitted against another "Mary Sue". That'll be too of a DBZ feeling. What i think should happen is a escaped C'tan Shard wrecking havoc upon a planet and the Space Marine and Eldar has to ally together and tried to overwhelm this Shard. It'll make for a epic boss battle.

I got some bad news for you...

Gabriel Angelos and the Blood Ravens are a Mary Sue. They completely go against Warhammer 40,000 lore and canon by possessing relics of other Chapters and by not knowing their Primarch. Just the sheer implication that their Primarch might actually have been a Traitor Legion Primarch is a ridiculous violation of canon and over-the-top. The survivors of the Horus Heresy who were not on the side of the Traitor legions were executed, and there were very, very few of them after Horus had the Traitor Primarchs purge their own ranks. There is no conceivable way that the Blood Ravens could exist, unless they were Deus ex Machina'd into existence.

As for the Necrons? Robot Space Zombies who are virtually unkillable. Say that aloud. Then come back and try to tell me they aren't Mary Sue's again. I'm not even going to get into the "Shards of a bunch of World-Killing Gods" ♥♥♥♥, that's self-explanatory for anyone who's not blinded by the childish 'kewl-factor'.

Lol blinded by childish Kewl-Factor. So just because you don't like it than thats childish lol? They are mostly gonna use the C'tan Shards in the story anyway. And Blood Ravens and Necrons are here to stay whether you like them or not. Watch they will continue to make it the way i want rather then the way you want as a villian. You are probably the same folks that would complain about everything from the game going Moba like to how colorful the graphics have become. Well guess what too bad. The new graphic style and gameplay is amazing so stop being stuck in the past and stop acting like your opinion is better cause its not, its boring. I hope they keep the new style and looks just to piss off old ass whiners like you thats stuck in the past and only want things the way you old ass wants. But im confident that they will keep the style and even put in C'tan Shards and give the story a world killing god a.k.a "childish kewl factor" according to you lol.

[Emperor's Will]

^^ guys up top are being blinded by the dark gods to fight each other. .

[Slim_Cognito]

Originally posted by Emperor's Will:

^^ guys up top are being blinded by the dark gods to fight each other. .:fearsomeaura:

The Emperor is a corpse, he's finished, the Chaos Gods played him.

[datguy13]

Originally posted by Mad Max Swamp:

Lol blinded by childish Kewl-Factor. So just because you don't like it than thats childish lol? They are mostly gonna use the C'tan Shards in the story anyway. And Blood Ravens and Necrons are here to stay whether you like them or not. Watch they will continue to make it the way i want rather then the way you want as a villian. You are probably the same folks that would complain about everything from the game going Moba like to how colorful the graphics have become. Well guess what too bad. The new graphic style and gameplay is amazing so stop being stuck in the past and stop acting like your opinion is better cause its not, its boring. I hope they keep the new style and looks just to piss off old ass whiners like you thats stuck in the past and only want things the way you old ass wants. But im confident that they will keep the style and even put in C'tan Shards and give the story a world killing god a.k.a "childish kewl factor" according to you lol.

No, I don't like it because it's childish. And what makes it childish is the complete lack of self-awareness, editting and sense of scale. It's just plain bad writing.

Kind of like your rebuttal. You hope they keep inflating the power creep just to spite people who understand how to create a complex villain instead of resorting to cheap lazy tactics for the sake of sales? Yeah, that's not immature at all.

Enjoy your shark-jumping. Then enjoy the lazy reboot that comes after it. Then when you grow up you'll realize that they slit their own throats with juvenile crap and have no long-term fanbase left. Keep in mind: It was us "old ass whiners" that supported Relic Entertainment long enough to make them valuable enough for Sega to buy them so they could make this lazy PoS.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by Emperor's Will:

3. C'tan Shards are dangerous there's no such thing as a weak shard.

Evidently you havent tried using them in table top hehe

[Malaficus Shaikan]

I dont like the newcron.
The C'tan being defeated by there own "mindless" slave armies?
Keep in mind only a few people have any personality left.
How did pulled it off i still dont know.
But i do like the oldcron C'tan.
Because they are power and cunning rap into one.
The deciever manage to talk the necrontyr into a devils contract while being called deciever....That shoud count for something.

Ofcourse oldcrons C'tan where basicly material realm versions of chaos god's down to the need to eat to survive part.

In dawn of war 1 nightbringer and deciever where compleetly invulerable but temperory buff to the necron lord.
The bloodthirstery and chaos demon prince had high health but could be destroyed.
The avatar of khain had an awesome buff, his combat skills where decent.
Not enough to solo a bloodthirster or demon prince but defeninity above saints.
If only because of the awesome buff that made him worth summoning.

Lore and gameplay dont mix.

I can see using a C'tan shard as story part.
The blood revans could be seeking it(being artifact hoarders and all)
The eldar want the necron to stay sleeping(because the necrons are a real headache they dont need right now)
And the necrons dont want anyone to acciedently free the C'tan from its prision.

Just imangine what would happen if a C'tan escaped from his shard.

I find that the best stories are those where both factions are relateable(both good and bad points)
Where there fighting over resourses or ideals.

World destroying threats are just boring.

[Emperor's Will]

Dont they Eat Stars so its like System Destroyers or what not.(kinda sounding like SW7 coming from things that destroy planets to whole systems).