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As an army they had some depth and reasons were given as to why each aspect covered a niche part of their society in addition to bringing a specialist role to the battlefield. Their apex, fall and struggle as a race is well documented along with their guilt and fear offset by their arrogance gives them some good litrature hooks but this is rarely exploited beyond bare bones space filling text and regurgitated articles.This sadly has been watered down over successive codices and further muddied with the introduction of the dark eldar whose back story always came across as shallow and overly provocative but without real meaning or horror.
Their translation into digital media has been sadly lacking with strong insubstantial stereotypes for voiced characters and game mechanics that limit asymetrical racial playstyles.
A Space Marine Chapter Master can have an entire world put to death with a single flick of his wrist. Just like an Inquisitor Lord, except without having to go to the troube to move an entire fleet of Imperial cruisers into orbit to do it; one Battle Barge and its escort cruisers will be enough. There are Chapters which govern entire solar systems autonymous of any Imperial direct influence, such as the Space Wolves and Ultramarines. You're going to tell me that's not "political power"?
One lone Space Marine can wipe out an entire Imperial Guard company or an Eldar Dire Avenger cadre by himself---and they deploy in squads of ten. The Space Marines have Orbital fire support, self-contained logistics, artillery in the form of Land raiders and Whirlwinds, heavy armor support in the form of Predators, air support from Thunderhawk Gunships.... the list goes on. They don't even need Titans, as many of the Chapters have access in the newest edition of game to the Imperial Knight medium Titans for their vassals.
Like I said: You really don't know much of the lore, but it's safe to add that you don't know much of the strategic capabilities of the faction either.
The Eldar are space elves with an "ancient, dying society and a deteriorating culture". Yeah, I call them a trope. Sounds just like the Elves from Tolkein, the elves from Dungeons & Dragons, the elves from the Terry Brooks novels, the Elves from Warhammer Fantasy... need I continue? They got one cool, somewhat unique thing going for them in their Craftworlds, and that's about it.
As for the "space romans" trope? Okay, you got one Chapter, the Ultramarines. You're conveniently leaving out the Space Vikings of the Space Wolves, the Dark Angels and their Warrior-monks, the relentless facism of the Grey Knights, the enduring power of the Imperial Fists, the dark tragedy of the Blood Angels, and all the derivations of each of these Founding Legions' Second Founding "child" Chapters.
Here you go folks: the reason why the Eldar appeal to people. You can identify with their base, selfish nature, and don't have to think past your own noses to pull it off. With Imperials and Space Marines, you actually have to look at the deeper darkness of a social construct that uses a form of facism as Heroism. In other words, with the Eldar you only have to connect to personal instinct, but with the Imperium you actually have to look into your own Ids.
Compare them to the imperium of the same IP.
They once had greater coverage of the stars more population and lived guiltfree.
Then they fell, many succumbed to chaos their own gods pantheon all but destroyed but the laughing god remains and maybe others in the shadows. Slannesh was born.
Now take the early era of man, the dark age and the 30k campaigns to reunite mankind under one empire followed by massive loss to chaos and the near destruction and crippling of mans 'god' emperor through heresy. Ascendent emperor was 'created'.
The imperium is rotten to the core and dying, stagnation, corruption, paranoia from within and besieged by other races from without. The Eldar on the other hand live with the guilt of what they allowed to happen and strive to avoid its repeat especially in younger vunerable races like man. Its a shame, that multimedia went with the condescending arrogant sterotypes rather than the concernded meddling granddad race of gandolfs.
But the Eldar have the doomed/dying stigma despite their active reproduction. They haven't forgotten or forbidden their technology and still seed worlds for their future generations (forward thinking for the dying). They live on craftworlds, nomads although at one piont they also had many exodite worlds with a harsher form of kin that kept in touch via the rangers through the webways (retcon'd). There were also the pirate corsairs, who have a different society to the craftworlders, though somewhat unfleshed and non-publicised beyond the actions of a certain prince. (this concept was kind of shifted across to the dark eldar an then expanded).
Yes the loss of a single craftworld in monumental and the tyranids amongst other threats pose issues, but that can be said for everything threatened by tyranids look at Baal or Ultramar. I'd personally class the Eldar as still recovering but doomed?...
I guess it comes more from the fact that Slanesh will eventually take their souls, but then mankind by the same text will one day be a psychic race whose fate is also to feed the warp assuming they live long enough, the eldar are just a little closer to the finish line.
The problem is you're basing your knowledge off fanfiction novels, which are written by authors who put nonesense in because they feel it makes a good book, not because it has any basis in anything. They have no "official" bearing on anything, and are mostly complete nonsense. This probably has caused some of the weird assumptions you have.
A space marine chapter could be wiped out by the "flick" of an Inquisitor's wrist and have to do whatever anyone futher up the command chain tells them. They can be taken over whenever and told what to do by an Inquisitor, or any number of higher ranking positions or sold into the servitude of a Rogue Trader. They have no power of command over other branches, no seats on the high council so have no "political power" at all.
A single Space Marine couldn't kill a "company of Imperial Guard" (typically 500 to 10000+ troops with heavy weapons teams, tanks etc).
As you're the master of "lore" you should know that "Cadre" is a Tau thing and Eldar just have "squads". But regardless, no, a single normal Space Marine couldn't kill a whole squad of 5-10 Dire avengers. Unless you meant "cadre" as maybe 2 Dire Avengers and he was lucky that day?
But really for someone who knows so much "lore" you should really know an Imperial Knight is a SUB Titan class. It's not even remotely close to a "medium titan" and smaller than even the Scout classes. Knights are piloted by Knight nobles and are from allied Knight Worlds, not part of any Space Marine sub company. All the Titans are part of Collegia Titanica, not part or under the command of any Space Marine chapter who couldn't maintain, build nor pilot them.
Then we get to another problem. If you know basically anything about the backstory of the universe you should know all races (except maybe the Orks) are a "dying society and a deteriorating culture". There's endless mentions of Space Marines and their deteriorating gene seeds and hopeless situation and humanities general decent into mutation and corruption and it's quest for lost knowledge. It's a "grimdark" universe after all, so the Eldar aren't exactly unique there.
Codicies are the game books required to learn the rules for playing specific armies. Each of those contains quite a lot of canon fiction in them, as well as a large amount of actual data on the power and compliments of the various Chapters.
No, actually they can't be, and they don't have to. There are a number of instances throughout legitimate canon which show Space Marine Chapters going against the Inquisition and not just winning, but stopping them in their tracks. The best example: Three times, the Inquisition tried to perform Exterminatus on the entire Armaggeddon system, and all three times at least one Space Marine Chapter stepped in and said "No."
As for "servitude to a Rogue Trader"? OMFG... yeah... no point talking anymore. You just showed exactly how far out to lunch you are. Space Marines as chattel? Yeah, you might want to pay better attention to the actual writing in that silly little RPG you're referencing.
A Company of Guard is 256 troops with a maximum of about twelve armored support vehicles. You just quoted the numbers for a regiment.
I've got a Second edition Eldar Codex sitting next to me that tells me you're wrong. 1) The book refers to them as "cadres" regularly, and 2) the stats for a Dire Avenger in melee are only about 1/2 that of a Space Marine.
You keep trying to call the Space Marine novels "fanfiction", but just about two-thirds of your own argument references information originally presented in White Dwarf or novels itself. So if you want to continue to argue your stance, maybe you should refine the consistency of the standards of your sources.
The Dire Avengers were suppose to be 'marine grade' level of infantry, fufilling the same basic function as Tacticals. However, with successive nerfs they became sub-par... (i stopped looking after 5th or 6th addition) I'm still not sure about a single basic marine taking out multiple Avengers without extra ordinary circumstances though and that could go both ways. Table top rules have varied considerably making the comparison difficult depending on the edition.
Although most of the significant changes have been to do with the stats of their weapon the shuriken catapult which was identical to the bolter st4 -1sv 24", a -2sv sustained 1d 24", assault 2 12" assault 2 18" etc which has a significant impact on their use/role and efficiency.
In close combat the Avengers have always had greater iniative, and equal to hit %, but scoring the wound and making it stick favours marines s4 t4 vs s3 t3, especially in canon material where they will shake the wound and carry on unlike tabletop where 1hp and model is removed just like any other chattel.
White Dwarf is "official" the fanfiction you reference is not. Out of interest of "consistency" which Codex or article made you think Knights were medium Titans and part of Space Marine chapters? I'm sure you immaculate "lore" knowledge must of had some kind of basis, riight?
Which time in the Armageddon System? The first war where the Inquisition wiped out a bunch of Space Wolves and stuff in that sytem (which the Space Marines couldn't and didn't stop), then went to Fenris to start wiping out the rest of the Space Wolves on their home planet? The Inquisition only stopped because Bjorn negotiated a ceasefire after heavy Marine losses, which doesn't exactly sound like what you're describing, does it?
You know what a Rogue Trader is and how powerful and high ranking they are, right?
There is no "standard" sized Imperial Gaurd Company or regiment, at all, another really basic "lore" point. A single Space Marine couldn't down 10 Imperial guard unless he was really lucky, nevermind "256" and a "bunch of tanks".
The 2nd Edition Codex still calls them "Dire Avengers Squads", not "Cadres". As you have the book there too which pages are you getting Dire Avengers "Cadre" from exactly?
Also no, half would mean they had half, not 1 less point in 2 stats and hit first. That 1 point in toughness an strength isn't going to mean a Space Marine can take on a squad of 7 Dire Avengers either. They'd either get shot immediately or get killed by 7 blows in combat before they could even roll to hit.
Personally, I couldn't care less for any of the universe's lore, as it is so incredibly melodramatic and cliche that it kills any sense of reality.
Any of the "data" or "lore" on any of the things in Warhammer universe is (just?) like an American Wrestling forum: people just rooting for their favorite hero, where all of it is in fact just plain ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Pretty much every character is presented as Godlike. DotA 2 lore is the same for its heroes. I reckon this must be a generally American way of thinking. You're just supposed to pick sides. Effective but incredibly simple, for the simple-minded.
That said, Eldar are the best race in terms of visual design! Bite me!
I assume Sega has ripped it out and will sell it as DLC.
Thanks for the opinion. But you are in the minority.
Yes many of us are hudge nerds, and yes, some of us may still live in our mother's basement. But some of us care about the lore because of it's depth and complexity. If you don't like that...Then why are you even in a Warhammer 40k forum?! That's like going into a room full of Trekkies and saying the entirity of the Star Trek universe and it's science isn't needed to make Star Trek!
What I mean by that is when I read/ hear anything from the Warhammer 40k lore, it sound to me like Fernandez has been cheating on Esmeralda again, and now her sister Consuela is planning to murder his father... you know what I mean. Just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
I am here because I've played pretty much every 40k RTS since DoW 1. Was never a huge fan but I did like it, especially the Eldar. Am looking to perhaps get this, too.
Lorewise I can't give a damn about any of the pathetic melodrama the IP is drenched in. Mind you, I haven't seen a single episode of Game of Thrones.
Perhaps a better way of putting it is that, to me, the lore details are like a Discovery Channel's show about snakes. There are just so many of them and in each you get to see dozens of snakes, each of them somehow "one of the most dangerous/ poisonous..." I can't buy into that, no matter how much I try. It's like an insurance salesman's pitch. Or like one of those typical American scenes where kids around a campfire shine a flashlight into their face and tell horror stories.
Hopefully I've managed to get my point, albeit extremely awkwardly, accross.
"What I mean by that is when I read/ hear anything from the Warhammer 40k lore, it sound to me like Fernandez has been cheating on Esmeralda again, and now her sister Consuela is planning to murder his father... you know what I mean. Just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥" No....No I don't have any idea what you are talking about... The lore reminds you of soap operas? What the ♥♥♥♥ are you on about?
If you are going to debate with me about lore, then you better get reading because these are not legitimate points. You have yet to show me an example of "soap opera" in 40k. You have yet to make a legitimate point as to why the developers shouldn't respect the lore and in-universe rules. You are relating the lore to Discovery Channel...
If someone was developing a Starwars game and depicted the force with magic fireballs and the ability to turn people into frogs, I HIGHLY doubt anyone would share your opinion that lore doesn't matter. Why? Because people like rules. Rules make things somewhat realistic because if things just happen just for the sake of happening, you lose interest very quickly. It is the reason why I hate magic in any kind of fiction. It's a lazy device a lazy writer uses to cover up plot holes.
I can see where you're coming from and i understand that the individual characters or organisations and their infamous misadventures can come across as grandoise/melodrama and often is, when one reads the novels and other asociated IP.
However, a lot of the lore discussion is less about who has the biggest gun and more about subtle preconceptions. Like Ferrari anouncing that an offshade of purple is the new official colour and expecting everyone to forget the old bright red. Or to follow your Snake analagy it's less about the venom index; they're discussing which natural habits one would find the other species in and objecting to the parrot being passed off as a snake.
Nothing new to see people bickering about who the strongest (and their favorite) character in GoT is. It's been like that since kindergarten, really.
But, again, I can see why people get pissed off about these things.
Edit: back in high school I used to play DoW 1 with a friend. I used the army painter and made a scheme with just the colors I like. The world was not aware of this heresy.