Mod Maps not showing in the multiplayer?

[Darth_Lopez]

As the title says is there a fix please?

[jonoliveira12]

The map makers have to update them to be compatible with Annihilation.

[Darth_Lopez]

I see
So they're not annihilation compatible

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Darth_Lopez:

I see
So they're not annihilation compatible

They have to be updated by the mapmakers, otherwise they are not, as they belong to a previous version.
Some maps have already been updated.

[Darth_Lopez]

Right, Is there a quick way to tell? or am i relying on trial and errr?

[Heru Ra Ha]

Originally posted by Grendel:

like relic, you have to rely on trial and error. modders were raging so hard as all the mods died

About what? :D

Every modder knows that you need to update your mod with the game, so basicly babyrage as you?

[Darth_Lopez]

well i have to say it's kinda dumb if there's no compatability checker/version checker. Stellaris has this. COH has this... idk what they're thinking on this. I mean it's by far not game breaking but its frustrating. Ease of use would've been nice or even an option to force old versions to work still but hey what ya going to do.

[Darth_Lopez]

Originally posted by Grendel:

yeah, relic did that in the past and it worked really well... dunno what happened. i mean there are coh2 developers on the dow3 team, or not?

Pretty Sure as far as i knew i mean it is all relic and their original IP. Admittedly things have not been going well since THQs grand fall. I blame Sega personally.

[Gorbles]

It's a new engine, some things are going to take time. CoH 2 mod support didn't occur overnight. Relic have detailed on the official forums, in the Mods subforum, how to update maps for Annihilation.

There is no modding beyond custom maps right now, so claims of how the "mods are dead" need to maybe take a step back and relax. Opinion post.

[Darth_Lopez]

Originally posted by Gorbles:

It's a new engine, some things are going to take time. CoH 2 mod support didn't occur overnight. Relic have detailed on the official forums, in the Mods subforum, how to update maps for Annihilation.

There is no modding beyond custom maps right now, so claims of how the "mods are dead" need to maybe take a step back and relax. Opinion post.

It's good theres a means by which to update maps manual a link would be nice and more helpful than an opinion.


But since you gave one... When you can't play over half of the subscribed maps you have it kinda looks like what passes for "mods" are infact dead. Be it because of failure of the community to update or whatever.

With regards to the COH2 stuff you speak of, no it didn't happen over night but you would think that Relic would have learned from the experience. Plenty of other Developers who have supported mods and costum maps from release have had much more successful systems. And while i am a long time fan of Relic Games (Published under THQ for the most part) There has been a massively notable degrade in quality with regards to the actual quality of the games in a features and mechanism since since Segas acquisition it's hard not to see a correlation to the problems and DLC-ification of COH2 when compared to COH 1 (which launched smoothly and was largely armazing and had minimal dlcs adding substantial content), same with DOWII post Sega Acquisition when compared to the iterations of DOW 1. And now we have DOW 3 where nothing seems to have been learned from the shared experience of 2 other games and usage of the steam workshop system. One would think there would be a learning or some sorta ease of transition to be made there (especially since major COH2 updates don't break maps at random.) Sadly just because the game is a new release does not make it immune to criticism be it constructive or otherwise.

Yeah it's new congrats. You released 2 months ago. Your Cookie was my 44 dollars. Most of the criticism of the game has been absolutely rediculous and i doubt many critics played beyond 30 seconds from some of the ♥♥♥♥ i've seen complained about. Beyond that you get no sympathies.

Some sorta system that alerts you to outdated mods at the very least would be much appreciated and from my understanding actually very simple to make. Also something that makes map downloads clearer between party members would be great too I wouldn't harp on that too much because COH2 has the same problem but hey. Even with multiple years of experience and a known problem we can't expect them all to be winners Opinion Post (<-does this adequaetly deflect critcism? no? I thougth not.)

Not trying to be a jerk but objectively speaking map creation is at the very least in a very very hard place it seems when most of my subscribed maps Do not show in the selection list. If the goal of using the steam workshop was to discourage it's use by breaking the content with in then you'e done an excellent job. If the goal was to enhance the game you could take some humility and admit that a system to alert players to outdated mod content might be a good idea at the very least.

Sorry but being "new" is not an excuse for poor quality tools or features. /endrant.

[Darth_Lopez]

Originally posted by Grendel:

Originally posted by Darth_Lopez:

THQ

there is an epic feeling i have deep inside my stomach, every time is see their logo in any game of them. there was no new years eve for the gaming industry in january 2013.

THQ was dead... Time itself stopped for a short Moment. and then the big industry hyenas robbed the soul from the THQ corpse.

a god died that day. crucified for our Sins: THE MAMMON (money!)

Some of my first games growing up were THQ, i miss them greatly. They new how to support a quality game and not rush a product or milk it for DLC bucks. It's sad that larger publishers with superificially shiny AAA games crushed them :/ sadder that Sega picked the bones of their RTS division.

At the very least maybe that's what helped Creative Assemblies rebound back with TotalWar: Warhammer (Probably the first good TW game since its actual release with out needing mods to fix the problem or a massive flood of updates.) But it definately has had a negative impact on the Quality of Relic Games. Although DOW 3 in my honest opinion is pretty damn good DOW game and fixed alot of the problems i had with DOWII. Would've been nice if the tactical coversystem stayed (not sure why they felt the need to remove it but whatever.) The new cover system works well for the game and it feels suitably big with an actually reasonable popcap. but game reviews aside...

THQ was a loss that made the gaming world wheep and its impact is still felt till this day. v.v RIP THQ we miss you.

[Gorbles]

Darth_Lopez, you seem to have a substantial personal bias against SEGA. You want to vent, that's fine, but there isn't going to be much discussion there.

Plenty of people had plenty of issues with the post-release support of DoW and CoH during THQ's days. You didn't, that's fine. I didn't, really. Not that necessarily means it was THQ's fault either. But likewise, issues now don't automatically mean malicious intent from either Relic or SEGA.

You're talking to a longtime modder of Relic games. Not just volunteer moderator, actual games modder. Your issues with DLC are completely separate to a discussion of mod support in Relic games. If you want to talk about mods, I can go on for days. As it stands, I sympathise with your complaints, but ranting about them isn't going to get you anywhere.

Originally posted by Valeran:

Originally posted by Gorbles:

It's a new engine, some things are going to take time. CoH 2 mod support didn't occur overnight. Relic have detailed on the official forums, in the Mods subforum, how to update maps for Annihilation.

There is no modding beyond custom maps right now, so claims of how the "mods are dead" need to maybe take a step back and relax. Opinion post.

What? This game works on essence engine 4.0, taht lelic used since impossible craetures, they only with every game slighty buff engine like doing call of duty creators or bethesda game studios RPGs, it has the same structure and the same principle of coding. And about mods, you write that mods are not dead, but hey, how they may live, if modding for dow 3 even not born, so technicaly modding for dow 3 is now dead, and lelic only broke old maps, that only killing in this way the works of modders, which leads to the fact that the moders will simply abandon modding for this game, because nobody wants see that your 2 weeks work, which moders put our soul in it, just destroyed by simple patch, because lelic are too lazy for coding 2-3 lines that may give us compitable at least with power core.

You are completely wrong in your claims surrounding what engine Relic use, and have used. Impossible Creatures and Dawn of War used a completely different engine. Company of Heroes was the first Relic game to use the first version of Essence (1.0).

You have no evidence to support your claims about how similar each version of the engine is, because you're not an engine programmer that works at Relic. Neither am I. I've simply modded their games (and even that has changed substantially over the years).

But personally, I wouldn't expect you to be fair, you have an obvious agenda against Relic that is obvious every time you misspell their name. Opinion post.

[Darth_Lopez]

Originally posted by Gorbles:

Darth_Lopez, you seem to have a substantial personal bias against SEGA. You want to vent, that's fine, but there isn't going to be much discussion there.

As a person who has bought many sega published games i can say that it is hilarious you would think i have a bias against sega. It's a simple observation. If that escapes you it's your problem.

Plenty of people had plenty of issues with the post-release support of DoW and CoH during THQ's days. You didn't, that's fine. I didn't, really. Not that necessarily means it was THQ's fault either. But likewise, issues now don't automatically mean malicious intent from either Relic or SEGA.

I don't believe i implied malicious intent, simply a degradation of quality sir (infact i believe i stated i believe relic may have benefitted Creative Assemblies well in their most recent release... hard to call that malicious intent). Given the massive increase of problems since the death of THQ i think it's safe to say it's a reasonable observation. The games have received at best mixed critical reviews compared to their predecessors. COH2 is almost directly comparable to COH1 plus a mod that added the russians and a metric ton of added paid content most of which was insubstantial.

You're talking to a longtime modder of Relic games. Not just volunteer moderator, actual games modder. Your issues with DLC are completely separate to a discussion of mod support in Relic games. If you want to talk about mods, I can go on for days. As it stands, I sympathise with your complaints, but ranting about them isn't going to get you anywhere.

Well again this is my complaint of sega's acquisition of them. Its a thing that sega does with their RTSs and a thing i feel degrades the over all quality of the games. Look at the Total War Series there's comparable analogy there.

And then again as a Modder I feel you should probably feel a bit less enthused with the current unusable state of many of the maps in the workshop. You've not really addressed an key point in the discussion. You've just latched onto the negative observations i've had about years of playing sega published RTS when compared to years of playing THQ published RTS. Whatever culture has been established there has clearly had a detrimental impact to the quality of the games from a player level observation. There's a clear trend and you can look back at the still early time line if you really need. That said this is true of many of the major publishers at present and I think it's taking the games industry in the wrong way. A very very wrong way. But not the issue, just an explanation for why i think simple lessons from COH2 weren't applied to DOW3.

Also define modder. Do you/have you actively built mods or do you just install them. Because depending on your answer I'll find the title far more impactful but simply throwing the word out there is rather meaningless and artificial. You could be Obama for all I care it makes your opinion no more relevant if you can't back up an opinion. Everyone and their mother can be an "actual games modder" in this day and age I myself have modded and created mods for a few games as well as modded broken mods to fix the problems lazy modders leave behind. You do not impress.

Push comes to shove COH2 preceded this game, COH2 learned critical lessons. There were critical lessons learned that could've benefited this game, this game failed to benefit from the lessons learned in previous iterations of the series and previous Relic RTS with respect to the steam workshop, The current state of useable/working maps in the workshop leaves much to be desired. Regardless of the existence of a manual fix there are certain features that could very easily in a programming sense (because yes i do know how to program and it wouldn't be that difficult to) have added a version checking line or something that can postively identify an outdated file

Originally posted by Valeran:

What? This game works on essence engine 4.0, taht lelic used since impossible craetures, they only with every game slighty buff engine like doing call of duty creators or bethesda game studios RPGs, it has the same structure and the same principle of coding. And about mods, you write that mods are not dead, but hey, how they may live, if modding for dow 3 even not born, so technicaly modding for dow 3 is now dead, and lelic only broke old maps, that only killing in this way the works of modders, which leads to the fact that the moders will simply abandon modding for this game, because nobody wants see that your 2 weeks work, which moders put our soul in it, just destroyed by simple patch, because lelic are too lazy for coding 2-3 lines that may give us compitable at least with power core.

You are completely wrong in your claims surrounding what engine Relic use, and have used. Impossible Creatures and Dawn of War used a completely different engine. Company of Heroes was the first Relic game to use the first version of Essence (1.0).

You have no evidence to support your claims about how similar each version of the engine is, because you're not an engine programmer that works at Relic. Neither am I. I've simply modded their games (and even that has changed substantially over the years).

But personally, I wouldn't expect you to be fair, you have an obvious agenda against Relic that is obvious every time you misspell their name. Opinion post.

You should probably hold Valeran to the same standard you hold yourself to, but since aside from a clear bias for Relic, you don't seem to care to back your initial claim that the engine is different either...

No one here has an obvious agenda against relic If we did we wouldn't have bought their damn game and wouldn't be trying to find fixes to the issue. I mean Hell the guy you say has an agenda against relic is at the moment of this typing playing the game in question.

To repeat: As a modder, forum what ever a link to this mystical thread of fixes you previously mentioned would've been nice. You could still do the sensible thing and direct us there. Or you could simply just stop talking now. I'm good with either.


To recap the keypoints though:

Push comes to shove COH2 preceded this game, COH2 learned critical lessons. There were critical lessons learned that could've benefited this game, this game failed to benefit from the lessons learned in previous iterations of the series and previous Relic RTS with respect to the steam workshop, The current state of useable/working maps in the workshop leaves much to be desired. regardless of active fix.

In this regards their quality of mod support is lack luster at present.

The current state of the workshop is filled with a vast desert of maps left broken by an update that users have no way of identifying without trial and error.

And finally The competition does it better, previous relic games do it better.

Feedback: Add a thing to fix the problem, its not hard. Hell it could have easily been included in the update. Infact why was this overlooked? Are they deliberately trying to suppress mod support? (I doubt it but a fair question for a game that in 4 months will likely have more addons than an order of french toast at a coney island since the publisher is sega)

Now to finish this conversation.

Your response to Valeran's question(even if he's wrong) and your reading of and response to my post is very analgous to the current approach to the steam workshop and ingame mod/map support implemented by relic. It leaves much to be desired both in terms of functional ability, quality, and general decorum. If you can argue those key points or you feel like trying by all means please respond. If not please support the game by providing a link to the forum so that others with the same question might more easily find the support they need. This would be how you could be most useful right now, as a decent person, as a modder, as a moderator or whatever, and a supporter of their game. Arguing why we shouldn't criticize clear problems and ask for a formal solution helps none of those things however whether you Opine or not.

As a side note are you required to put the assanign opinion post tag there or do you just like to seem official and pompous? Because honestly without the tag you might come off as initially more friendly.

[Gorbles]

I don't know what to say. The Essence engine is Google-able. It has a Wikipedia page.

My history as a modder is perhaps considerably less Google-able now that RelicNews is defunct, but I was an active vDoW modder, contributing to Firestorm over Kronus (and other releases) and I was active in the early days of DoW II before having to focus on IRL commitments.

I have no interest in defending the current state of anything - more support for modders is always something I support. I said you simply seemed to be in this to vent, not to discuss. Which certainly seems to be true, as you don't seem to want to take anything I say at my word. I have the moderator badge, I have far more to lose by spreading misinformation than anyone else would.

I also don't know what thread of "fixes" you're on about, sorry. Unless you're talking about the documentation required to convert old maps to support the new game modes? It's the only stickied thread in the relevant subforum on the official forums: https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/13707/psa-power-core-maps-will-need-to-be-updated

There is no fix for the issue described in this thread. My original post was a response to Grendel about the technicalities of transferring functionality between different versions of a game engine.

My having to post "opinion post" was because community members were concerned I would act as both moderator and poster within a single thread. By separating out my posts it is clear what is opinion, and what is instruction. I did this at the community's request.

[Heru Ra Ha]

Instead to waste your energy on maybe pointless discussion rather make a feedback thread on the official forums with the changes you want to see and why regarding steam workshop, when you actually do that there is the chance of it being actually picked up by the devs and not getting lost in a discussion about relics quality of releases since theyve been aquirred by SEGA.

[Darth_Lopez]

Originally posted by Gorbles:

I don't know what to say. The Essence engine is Google-able. It has a Wikipedia page.

My history as a modder is perhaps considerably less Google-able now that RelicNews is defunct, but I was an active vDoW modder, contributing to Firestorm over Kronus (and other releases) and I was active in the early days of DoW II before having to focus on IRL commitments.

I have no interest in defending the current state of anything - more support for modders is always something I support. I said you simply seemed to be in this to vent, not to discuss. Which certainly seems to be true, as you don't seem to want to take anything I say at my word. I have the moderator badge, I have far more to lose by spreading misinformation than anyone else would.

Call me academically skeptical. Word is pointless unless you can back it with facts and proof and simply stating you mod intodays day in age is less meaningful than buying a donut. Additionally as other threads and forums here show steam hands that badge out to nearly everyone and their uncle. It's no real token of officiality.

I also don't know what thread of "fixes" you're on about, sorry. Unless you're talking about the documentation required to convert old maps to support the new game modes? It's the only stickied thread in the relevant subforum on the official forums: https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/13707/psa-power-core-maps-will-need-to-be-updated

There is no fix for the issue described in this thread. My original post was a response to Grendel about the technicalities of transferring functionality between different versions of a game engine.

if it's the one you mentioned?

Originally posted by Gorbles:

Relic have detailed on the official forums, in the Mods subforum, how to update maps for Annihilation.

Then i'm content. Since I can mannually fix the maps I want if i need to with it.

My having to post "opinion post" was because community members were concerned I would act as both moderator and poster within a single thread. By separating out my posts it is clear what is opinion, and what is instruction. I did this at the community's request.

As someone not deeply ingrained in the community and having no similar instances in other steam stuffs i have to say it does not leave the best impression. It seems less like you're trying to be official and more like you're deflecting the criticism.

Originally posted by #Liebe zu Dritt#:

Instead to waste your energy on maybe pointless discussion rather make a feedback thread on the official forums with the changes you want to see and why regarding steam workshop, when you actually do that there is the chance of it being actually picked up by the devs and not getting lost in a discussion about relics quality of releases since theyve been aquirred by SEGA.

It's hardly lost in a discussion. It's pretty clearly there. It's also been mentioned a few times now. But it is good to know that they do take things seriously on their official forums. In my experience no developer really seems to at times however i have seen many devs actively post in steam forums which surprises me.