What this game should have been.

[rman88]

Welp with the death of dawn of war 3 being offical. i cant help but feel like it is time on hindsight to talk about what went wrong. so her is a short list of everything that went wrong.

1. the heros were way to over powered. able to tear apart an entire army single handly. some with only 1 single abuilty.

2. armies felt like they were made of tisue paper. every unit was desgined to be throwaway units. not even worth replenishing or running away with. as heros just 1 shot them early game. and late game all their was to it was spaming tanks. making the battles feel more or less samey lame.

3. the story was more or less not inspiring. i didn't finish it and to be honest i don't think i ever will. as i just have no drive to see what is going to happen. as to be honest it is the most bland and boring warhammer story i have every seen.

that said, what it should have been to me is what Ultimate Apocalypse Mod is to dawn of war soulstorm. Expanding on what they did in the first game. and just adding all the cool and badass units each army has. making the maps far larger and much more grander. showing that youa re fighting not on a small mile long map but on an entire region. allowing you to fight with titans and other super weapons in the late game. while hords of infantry duke it out underneth the shadow of superweapons.

sadly what we got was a porly thought out moba in disguised.

[Playgu]

Complains about OP Elites.
Wants Titans in game.

/fp

[Phobos]

face palm or front flip?

[WarbringerVI]

Originally posted by Scentmemory:

Complains about OP Elites.
Wants Titans in game.

/fp

Not same thing so your point makes no sense.

[rman88]

well the elites are over powered. and by that i mean they literaly are over powered. for example the hero unit Jain Zar has a line aoe weapon that will 1 shot an entire army if you get it off right.

Chaplain Diomedes is said to be unkillable early game. and i could go on how hero units are able in general to wipe out an entire army single handly. but in the end they are not the same thing as the super units in dawn of war 1.

Super units were made as a game ender. a late game unit you build up to decimate the battlefeild. weather or not it was say the land raider, blood thirster, baneblade and so on so forth. they were made in order to break stalmates and end the game.

this game dose not have such a system. as you can get a super unit at the begining of the game. a hero that is able to wipe out an entire army single handly. becuase hell who needs a titan when your chapter master can j ust jump on a blob of infantry and 1 shot everyone.

also funny thing is even in dawn of war 1 a super unit like a baneblade couldn't instant kill an entire squad with a single shot. they still required an army to back them up. or else they would just get killed off. as even a super unit is not a 1 man army.

also just a note even an Emperor Titan, the most badass and massive titan in existance. will still fall to ruin if not properly supported by ground forces. as while they have massive firepower able to level entire cities in a single voly. they are still only 1 single unit that has 0 abuilty to defend itself at close range. so all you need is to get some units into the titan blow up key stuctures and bam the most powerfull weapon in the entire imperal army is gone.

[Reuben]

The game is a lot more fluid, many people don't want to watch two squads standing around exchanging bolter fire that should be explosive and more or less instant death for two minutes, I thought the lore and the table-top also has high TTK as well, no?

Originally posted by Chaplain Lithius:

Originally posted by Scentmemory:

Complains about OP Elites.
Wants Titans in game.

/fp

Not same thing so your point makes no sense.

- Imperial Knight
- Solaria
- Wraithknight
- Wraithknight Taldeer
- Gorkanaut
- Morkanaut

What are those elite units if not titans?

[rman88]

o boy where to begin with this mess. well lets talk about making a table top game into an rts game. First of all even this game is nothing like the table top game. And to be honest it cant be, the table top game is a turn based vs dawn of war which is a rts. if you want a turn base game why not play Warhammer 40,000: Armageddon. Which is a pretty good representation of the table top game.

That said, this is still nothing like the table top game. As hero and super units can die just as quick as any other unit. you just need to get lucky with your rolls and bam you win. their is no rolling dice in dawn of war. their is no random chance in dawn of war. if i see you at a choke point and blobbed up. i can aoe your entire squad to death with 1 ability. and their is nothing you can do about it. besides you know don't go down a choke point. but good luck with that as 100% of the maps are based around choke points.

That said super units are strong, they are powerful, and they can do some serious damage. but in the end without an army to back them up. they are just a waist of points. and that is how the table top was intended to be played.

dawn of war 3 is a moba rts hybrid. the heroes are pretty much like a level 20 hero in dota. able to 1 shoot the creap waves without much of a problem. and this include the knights class walkers that are in their. as the morkanaught, wraith knight, and imperal knights are actually not real titans. they are just the largest of walkers you can field without needing to use Apocalypse rules.

the smallest titans are in fact warhound, Revenant, and stompas. as they are all classified as scout titans.

also funny thing is they are not even that good. i never see anyone feild them in the battle reports i watch. super heavys kinda suck in the current meta of the table top. and considering i saw a guy bring 2 imperal knights vs tau and they both got killed during the first turn. i cant see them as being usefull at all due to being just such a big target.

[WarbringerVI]

Originally posted by Reuben:

Originally posted by Chaplain Lithius:

Not same thing so your point makes no sense.

- Imperial Knight
- Solaria
- Wraithknight
- Wraithknight Taldeer
- Gorkanaut
- Morkanaut

What are those elite units if not titans?

Those units are not even close to what titans are so no.

[Playgu]

Originally posted by Chaplain Lithius:

Originally posted by Reuben:

- Imperial Knight
- Solaria
- Wraithknight
- Wraithknight Taldeer
- Gorkanaut
- Morkanaut

What are those elite units if not titans?

Those units are not even close to what titans are so no.

So you guys want even more lethal super units? lmao

[rman88]

dude what did i just say. these are end game units ment to end the game. of coarse they are going to be the most powerfull dam units you can get. its no diffrent from getting the ion cannon in C&C TS or battlecrusiers in Starcraft.

but in the end these are units you get at the end of the game. Not 20 seconds from the start of it.

[Vandinar]

If anything the elites should've been production building based and high tiered elites should just be made available from owning an elite point module and associated building (akin to DoW1 relics)

[rman88]

that really wouldn't have worked as elites are to strong. it means if you cannot get a elite capture point you lose. their is no way to win with the current roster of units and how they are balanced vs an elite unit or hero.

You got to realize relic made this inot a moba rts hybrid. hell they even added towers and a base you had to destory. only diffrence is their are no waves of npc mobs and the heros start out at level 20.

[Vandinar]

What I mean is:

Elites like the Force Commander and Chaplain would've been recruitable early enough, akin to DoW1. But Elites like Solaria and the Imperial Knight would require the appropriate advances and a capture point.