Late game, how can Orks combat SM tanks? Tank Busters are useless!

[IntoTheRainbow]

Ok Ork Tank Busters are not useless, but I just played a 1 v 1 against a good SM player, got to late game and I had no answer to his tanks despite out-resourcing them. My TB were doing pathetic damage to his armour upgraded tanks, so which unit/s are best to combat heavy vehicles late game for Orks?

Killer Kans? Or Deff Dreads? Can't believe how I lost that game!!

[jonoliveira12]

Tankbustas are your best bet, KillaKhanz can snipe vehicles from long range, in bursts. Use them in your composition. Deffdreads are better vs infantry and structures, because they are tough, but they do not deal armour-piercing damage, though they can still scratch armour pretty bad.

Big Trakks, in Shot'em from Afar mode, can break tanks quickly, if you have spotters, and Tankbusta Squiggs add a lot of punch to your attack.

[Auni[TExP]]

the best thing in my opinion is, to play infantrie until min 20 -> you should be 3/3 infantrie on min 20.
Then start vehicle upgrades. the smart thing on orks is, if you let small scraps on the ground the third phase starts, you can build very soon 10 killa cans for nearly no costs!

Killacans deal truedmg, and in my opinion they are relativ broken .
Cause you can Wagh -> run to enemy shieldgen or tower shoot it, and run away . Restack your rocakts, and do it again and win the game.

The DMG with wagh + 7-10 killacans is absurd! you just kill everythink on the field! ;) and you don't need doktrin's for this.

Actually i play 2 boys, into shoota (4-5) into loota/tankbusta, infantrie upgrades all the time.
And you need your 5 wagh towers on min 17 or so ! if you can manage to get it earlier its good! but don't skip infantrie upgrade for this!

But overall, a replay would be nice. Cause what did you do with your + req? if you don't upgrade vehicles , and what did you do with your power, if you build no vehicle in lategame?
And also which phase end the game? how long runs ?

its very hard to give you specific tipps, if you give us no info's or replay's!
the Income system is little bit weird. but if you manage to hold in p2/p3 more power reactors and also 1-2 more req generator, you can just aclick with wagh to win every game. aslong your eco is really better, and you use it also well! (macro)

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by AuniTExP:

the best thing in my opinion is, to play infantrie until min 20 -> you should be 3/3 infantrie on min 20.
Then start vehicle upgrades. the smart thing on orks is, if you let small scraps on the ground the third phase starts, you can build very soon 10 killa cans for nearly no costs!

Killacans deal truedmg, and in my opinion they are relativ broken .
Cause you can Wagh -> run to enemy shieldgen or tower shoot it, and run away . Restack your rocakts, and do it again and win the game.

The DMG with wagh + 7-10 killacans is absurd! you just kill everythink on the field! ;) and you don't need doktrin's for this.

Actually i play 2 boys, into shoota (4-5) into loota/tankbusta, infantrie upgrades all the time.
And you need your 5 wagh towers on min 17 or so ! if you can manage to get it earlier its good! but don't skip infantrie upgrade for this!

But overall, a replay would be nice. Cause what did you do with your + req? if you don't upgrade vehicles , and what did you do with your power, if you build no vehicle in lategame?
And also which phase end the game? how long runs ?

its very hard to give you specific tipps, if you give us no info's or replay's!
the Income system is little bit weird. but if you manage to hold in p2/p3 more power reactors and also 1-2 more req generator, you can just aclick with wagh to win every game. aslong your eco is really better, and you use it also well! (macro)

Yep. Scrap-Khanz are amazing.

[IntoTheRainbow]

Thanks for your opinions guys, I'm still learning. I need to start using Killa Kans for sure.

Auni[TExP] - we were on Mork's Mire 1 v 1 I didn't save the replay otherwise I'd post it here for you guys! But the game lasted 20+ mins iirc.

TBH I'm still a bit of a noob 1 v 1 been playing mostly 3 v 3 matches since I got the game but I'm finding the 1 v 1 battle of wits extremely thrilling. My problem is that I am decent early game with harassing and securing points. In this game I went 2X Slugga Boys then got out my Deff Gun Lootas early to support them and I seemed to win the early game. Then I transitioned to loot upgraded Nobz and used eject stun attack from the Trukk as my main strategy with support from Tankbustas.

The problem came after this phase, I didn't know the next step to transition to was. I need to use Waaaagh buff better and I need to use it in conjunction with Killa Kans at this point (and use the scrap to build more Kans like you said).

My elites were: Warboss - MegaNobz - Mad Dread.

[Auni[TExP]]

Ah okay, about your Elite setup.
If you want to go into Lategame, and take for this high Elite's you should take beuty in my opinion.
Meganobz are great , warboss is not so good .

I recommand stormboy or weirdboy/kommando + Meganobz + Beuty
But you really should take a 2 or 3 point elite instead of Warboss!
Simple reason for this is , your opponent is not able to BUILD ANY UNIT on min 6 to counter your Weirdboy , or your stormboy on min 4!
That mean's, he need also a early Elite, or he will loose instantly Map control!

All trades with Elites are freetrades, Elite cost nothing , only time. Ofcourse you should not loose a Elite, cause this open up a window for your opponent to attack you with a elite + Army!
But in generall i herass alot with my stormboy , and try to flank with my shoota/boys another ressource location!

Cause this reason, Kommando . weirdboy and also stormboy are better then warboss!

.)Weirdboy can spam all 45 seconds a fist into your opponent squads -> free trades
And in generell, the game doesn't allow your opponent to get anythink crazy on Min 6!
He can have same amount of squads as you (t1 unit)
Or he has LP more then you , but less squads.


.)Kommando force your opponent to play very carefully.
Splash dmg and Speedbuff of Q is just annoying!
If you get it out on min 6 , you can trade also with him for free, but he is not so good in engaging highgrounds or so! Still you get way better trades with kommando then warboss.

.) Stormboy is a 2point elite, he comes on min 4 . He is very strong against Spacemarine .
Basicly your army composition on min 4 with a wagh buff is allways stronger then SM army on min 4.
it doesn't matter what the SM player does, if he cannot trade the first 4 mins against you with drop/flag , you got map control on min 4 . Just cause of stormboy, shoota and boys!
Also stormboy are able to kill LP's solo. He has good escape potential, and also he can jump on highground ressource location.


If you want to stick with your Elitecombination.
I would recommand to rush meganobz or mad dread!
The thing is atm, if you manage to get a Elite gen, you gen summon your meganobz on min 11.
As ork player you should be able to hold any elite push , cause of waghs and maybe 1-2 early loota (they are crazy with scrap)
Since the powernerf, people cannot go so fast to t2.
And ork/sm need t2 to kill vehicles.
Meganobz and also mad dread are heavy armor ! and deal alot of dmg into t1 unit's!
And your opponent is just not able to got enough Anti tank weapons out to counter your Elite's
Also your opponent was summoning a early elite, so he has nothing on the field to counter your heavy armor elite decently!

Also its really risky if you rush to t2, just in case your opponent rush to a heavy armor elite (5-7 point)
A good strat is also as ork , to play with stormboy, meganobz and maddread.
But you don't summon stormboy, your opponent cannot over extend, cause you are able to summon everytime your stormboy to turn the fight, also you got the def position with waghs, and same army value . you just miss a Elite!
Your opponent is also forced to push Unit's, and Infantrie 1/1 .
Cause he can't know if you attack now or not.
So he has to be prepared just in case if you start a 2 flank push with stormboy+ army.

But you won't do that, and your opponent has no t2 tech fast enough.
And your Heavy armor elite has a happy time ;)

[IntoTheRainbow]

Originally posted by AuniTExP:

Ah okay, about your Elite setup.
If you want to go into Lategame, and take for this high Elite's you should take beuty in my opinion.
Meganobz are great , warboss is not so good .

I recommand stormboy or weirdboy/kommando + Meganobz + Beuty
But you really should take a 2 or 3 point elite instead of Warboss!
Simple reason for this is , your opponent is not able to BUILD ANY UNIT on min 6 to counter your Weirdboy , or your stormboy on min 4!
That mean's, he need also a early Elite, or he will loose instantly Map control!

All trades with Elites are freetrades, Elite cost nothing , only time. Ofcourse you should not loose a Elite, cause this open up a window for your opponent to attack you with a elite + Army!
But in generall i herass alot with my stormboy , and try to flank with my shoota/boys another ressource location!

Cause this reason, Kommando . weirdboy and also stormboy are better then warboss!

.)Weirdboy can spam all 45 seconds a fist into your opponent squads -> free trades
And in generell, the game doesn't allow your opponent to get anythink crazy on Min 6!
He can have same amount of squads as you (t1 unit)
Or he has LP more then you , but less squads.


.)Kommando force your opponent to play very carefully.
Splash dmg and Speedbuff of Q is just annoying!
If you get it out on min 6 , you can trade also with him for free, but he is not so good in engaging highgrounds or so! Still you get way better trades with kommando then warboss.

.) Stormboy is a 2point elite, he comes on min 4 . He is very strong against Spacemarine .
Basicly your army composition on min 4 with a wagh buff is allways stronger then SM army on min 4.
it doesn't matter what the SM player does, if he cannot trade the first 4 mins against you with drop/flag , you got map control on min 4 . Just cause of stormboy, shoota and boys!
Also stormboy are able to kill LP's solo. He has good escape potential, and also he can jump on highground ressource location.


If you want to stick with your Elitecombination.
I would recommand to rush meganobz or mad dread!
The thing is atm, if you manage to get a Elite gen, you gen summon your meganobz on min 11.
As ork player you should be able to hold any elite push , cause of waghs and maybe 1-2 early loota (they are crazy with scrap)
Since the powernerf, people cannot go so fast to t2.
And ork/sm need t2 to kill vehicles.
Meganobz and also mad dread are heavy armor ! and deal alot of dmg into t1 unit's!
And your opponent is just not able to got enough Anti tank weapons out to counter your Elite's
Also your opponent was summoning a early elite, so he has nothing on the field to counter your heavy armor elite decently!

Also its really risky if you rush to t2, just in case your opponent rush to a heavy armor elite (5-7 point)
A good strat is also as ork , to play with stormboy, meganobz and maddread.
But you don't summon stormboy, your opponent cannot over extend, cause you are able to summon everytime your stormboy to turn the fight, also you got the def position with waghs, and same army value . you just miss a Elite!
Your opponent is also forced to push Unit's, and Infantrie 1/1 .
Cause he can't know if you attack now or not.
So he has to be prepared just in case if you start a 2 flank push with stormboy+ army.

But you won't do that, and your opponent has no t2 tech fast enough.
And your Heavy armor elite has a happy time ;)

Great info and knowledge mate, thanks for this.

Interesting as before recently I was ALWAYS choosing Stormboyz as one of my elites and I only switched to the Warboss after I played a match where an Eldar player got Jain Zar out quick and wiped out my Stormboyz and half my early army! So I thought a strong melee fighter like the Warboss could counter this. Same thing happened with a SM player where they got Angelos out a couple mins after my Stormboys were on the field and he cleaned up my army consisting of Boyz and Deff Gun Lootas.

I also always chose Beauty Da Morkanaut as I think this unit can dominate pretty much anything but since concentrating on 1 v 1 matches, I thought it would be a better strategy to try and end the game before getting to the stage where super elites like this can be deployed. Hence Mad Dredd being selected so I can deploy him earlier on the field to try and finish the opponent before they get to deploy their Imperial Knight, Wraith Knight or Morkanaut. Of course this backfires if your opponent survives to late game and you only have a Mad Dredd to try and deal with the super elites above!

Going to try and experiment with Zappnoggin though.

Also you mention elite gen, you mean elite generators? What's confusing me is this: sans elite generator, does everyone generate elite points at the same rate, or is this effected by other factors like destroying buildings or enemy units?

[Auni[TExP]]

Yes with Elite gen, i mean a elite generator!
You got only elitepoints over time (2 min = 1 EP)
If you destroy a shieldbubble +1 EP
If you destroy a tower in enemy's base + 1EP

Elite gens generate also elitepoints, if you manage to get a early elite generator up (min 1-2) you could summon your 3 point elite on 5:20- 5:30 !

i don't know the correct elite point rate for elite gens, but in generall you save 30 sec- 2 min for elites. depend on costs.

Yes a early jain zar is really strong. But if you look to jain zar skills, its no wounder.
She/he is a anti Blob Elite, and like i wrote on top, on min 8 you got only t1 Unit's mostly.
And all skills from jain zar trade extremly well against blobbed unit's. still its dangoures for Eldar player to rush a 4 point elite against Ork.
Cause if ork player play with 2 + 3 point elite (stormboy + weirdboy ) he could loose very fast.
Ork player just need to destroy 1 shieldbubble with the ability of wagh+ stormboy while eldar has no elite out.

And if jain zar comes on the field, the ork player has stormboy + weirdboy . And overall a better eco and destroyed allready 1 shieldgen .

As elder against ork , i would take just in case a Macha + jain zar, if the ork player really commit into my shieldbubble. I could summon macha soon to save the bubble.
Also i should be able to get some trades while he push my shieldbubble.
If he don't push my shieldbubble i could secure macha and go instantly to jain zar !

[IntoTheRainbow]

Originally posted by AuniTExP:

Yes with Elite gen, i mean a elite generator!
You got only elitepoints over time (2 min = 1 EP)
If you destroy a shieldbubble +1 EP
If you destroy a tower in enemy's base + 1EP

Elite gens generate also elitepoints, if you manage to get a early elite generator up (min 1-2) you could summon your 3 point elite on 5:20- 5:30 !

i don't know the correct elite point rate for elite gens, but in generall you save 30 sec- 2 min for elites. depend on costs.

Yes a early jain zar is really strong. But if you look to jain zar skills, its no wounder.
She/he is a anti Blob Elite, and like i wrote on top, on min 8 you got only t1 Unit's mostly.
And all skills from jain zar trade extremly well against blobbed unit's. still its dangoures for Eldar player to rush a 4 point elite against Ork.
Cause if ork player play with 2 + 3 point elite (stormboy + weirdboy ) he could loose very fast.
Ork player just need to destroy 1 shieldbubble with the ability of wagh+ stormboy while eldar has no elite out.

And if jain zar comes on the field, the ork player has stormboy + weirdboy . And overall a better eco and destroyed allready 1 shieldgen .

As elder against ork , i would take just in case a Macha + jain zar, if the ork player really commit into my shieldbubble. I could summon macha soon to save the bubble.
Also i should be able to get some trades while he push my shieldbubble.
If he don't push my shieldbubble i could secure macha and go instantly to jain zar !

Thanks for the info on elite point generation, appreciate it.

Anyway I'm switching over to the official Dawn of War 3 forums here, where you can actually have a conversation about the game:
https://community.dawnofwar.com/categories/dow3

You should join there if you haven't already, your insight and level-headedness is wasted on these forums here, which have become a cesspool of trolls.

Goodbye Steam forums, I won't miss you.

[2iLL4Death]

Im not orc expert but i played about an hour game today as orcs against space marines on helios bridge 3v3. They sent a lot of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tanks believe it. There wasn't one moment where there wasn't at least 10 or 11 tanks on the battle field but i kept rushing with shootaboyz, stormboyz, tankbustas, and the heavy infantry orc (forget name) while slowly building up big trakks and setting them in long distance shelling mode. 6 were doing the job well (plus keeping the infantry on their ass was a plus) but i made 9 for safety. after that I made a bunch of tank bustas and killa khans (as much as the rest of my pop allowance would let me) then I set 4 of my big trakks to close range made and the rest at long and just fowarded the attack. The combination of killa khans, close range big tracks, and tank busterz were annihlating heavy armor while my big trakks set to long range where keeping the infantry down while I only had like 2 or 3 shootaboyz taking them out before they got back up. My ai allies infantry probobly were helping with the enemy infantry a lot but their heavy armor had no chance. Not sure how that strategy would work in an open battle field but in a lane it was really efficient.