10 years in early access?

[SilverDiamond]

At a risk of being banned, and called impatient - shouldn't there be some progress in all this time? I'm not asking for content. I'm asking for game classification. I would think that after TEN YEARS major bugs would be solved, and game would be stable...

Date of Release, in Steam - 2015. Today is 2024. Almost 25.

[Bean Man]

what

[HuskyDynamics]

As far as major stability issues go, I can't think of anything. The game runs quite well and I haven't had any issues with crashing or other stuff.

As per the store page, the reason the game is still in early access is because the developers still do not see it as being "feature-complete," which is... fair. Even after all this time it's still almost exclusively a sandbox, with things like racing and career modes only being very early implementations.

[geraldmartin5]

Not to mention the much needed optimization.

[A Fat, Angry Serval]

It took them this long because, unlike games like Assetto Corsa and R Factor which have predefined driving models for each vehicle, BeamNG.drive is a fully physics-modeled simulator. Tires, suspension geometry and alignment, weight and weight distribution all directly affect how the vehicle handles just like IRL. It's not a 1:1 simulation since the game has to be able to run on consumer PCs but it's as accurate as they can make it within technical constraints. And they've only recently gotten that working properly.

And that's all stuff that had to be sorted out before game content could be added. The devs are only now getting to that.

Also, keep in mind this game has a very small development team, which compounds with the shear level of ambition this game has.

[SilverDiamond]

Originally posted by A Fat, Angry Serval:

It took them this long because, unlike games like Assetto Corsa and R Factor which have predefined driving models for each vehicle, BeamNG.drive is a fully physics-modeled simulator. Tires, suspension geometry and alignment, weight and weight distribution all directly affect how the vehicle handles just like IRL. It's not a 1:1 simulation since the game has to be able to run on consumer PCs but it's as accurate as they can make it within technical constraints. And they've only recently gotten that working properly.

And that's all stuff that had to be sorted out before game content could be added. The devs are only now getting to that.

Also, keep in mind this game has a very small development team, which compounds with the shear level of ambition this game has.

The problem here being, before adding cars, you should complete features. This is my main argument here. I've seen quite a few "new car" videos. Before adding anything new, complete features. Auto driving, all the simulation, have several TYPES of engine(gas/diesel), and work on that. don't put more engines there. Inline, V, whatever, don't put turbos. Make barebones "vanilla" game, and call it 1.0. THEN you can add cars of different configurations.

[Kirby]

Originally posted by SilverDiamond:

Originally posted by A Fat, Angry Serval:

It took them this long because, unlike games like Assetto Corsa and R Factor which have predefined driving models for each vehicle, BeamNG.drive is a fully physics-modeled simulator. Tires, suspension geometry and alignment, weight and weight distribution all directly affect how the vehicle handles just like IRL. It's not a 1:1 simulation since the game has to be able to run on consumer PCs but it's as accurate as they can make it within technical constraints. And they've only recently gotten that working properly.

And that's all stuff that had to be sorted out before game content could be added. The devs are only now getting to that.

Also, keep in mind this game has a very small development team, which compounds with the shear level of ambition this game has.

The problem here being, before adding cars, you should complete features. This is my main argument here. I've seen quite a few "new car" videos. Before adding anything new, complete features. Auto driving, all the simulation, have several TYPES of engine(gas/diesel), and work on that. don't put more engines there. Inline, V, whatever, don't put turbos. Make barebones "vanilla" game, and call it 1.0. THEN you can add cars of different configurations.

Yeah just make an unfinished game with no content and then work on it for years to bring it up to scratch, not at all scummy or what everybody is doing rn.

[SilverDiamond]

Originally posted by Kirby:

Originally posted by SilverDiamond:

The problem here being, before adding cars, you should complete features. This is my main argument here. I've seen quite a few "new car" videos. Before adding anything new, complete features. Auto driving, all the simulation, have several TYPES of engine(gas/diesel), and work on that. don't put more engines there. Inline, V, whatever, don't put turbos. Make barebones "vanilla" game, and call it 1.0. THEN you can add cars of different configurations.

Yeah just make an unfinished game with no content and then work on it for years to bring it up to scratch, not at all scummy or what everybody is doing rn.

Yeah, because making an UNFINISHED game, and THEN adding both CONTENT and FIXING it is BETTER. Especially with, from what I've been told, this small team.

Hello? It's EARLY ACCESS for 10 years. You really consider this better than whatever games you wanted to compare it to? And Early Access, at least to ME, means that MECHANICS are not fixed. EA is not about content, it's about bugs and general stability. For example, I just lost my tachometer UI(User Interface) outside of the car. Looking for ways to fix it now. Apparently I need to delete some folders, and then launch game again?

[Bobby]

After a decade I expected a replay suite that was standard by now. “Not this”
Crash Camera
And last, but certainly not least - we’ve added a Crash Cam! Once enabled in the gameplay options, the Crash Cam will automatically capture your crashes in glorious slow-motion. It includes several modes and will select one of them at random. The Crash Cam is currently only available in Freeroam mode, so go check it out and please share any feedback with us in the dedicated forum thread!

Not having to be James Cameron. Aside from that, a proper story and some meat.
I can honestly say I’ve watched more people’s vids on YouTube than I’ve played it now.
It’s more fun.
I mean I’ve done carmageddon since 19 oatcake and it had the best editing replay suite in a game for eons. Crashing isn’t a new thing on PC. BeamNG isn’t doing something that hasn’t been done. The crash videos that people make are more realistic than crashing real-time in the game. It still has a tinfoil approach with panels and weir buckling that’s nothing like real life.

Anyway, merry Christmas

[the.lovewyrm]

This would not be a problem if Steam, which IS escrow (a middle man for money exchange, more or less), would allow game resales, even just as store credits.

It's the best solution to work in tandem with the concept of early access games.

But it does not offer resale. So, people often get stuck with purchases that went in directions they didn't expect over a long time...and become disgruntled

Were resales a thing, and if resales were prioritized over developer/publisher sales then:

If game starts out good, and changes direction that disgruntles initial backers (yes, they are financers), but pleases newcomers...then a priority resale would refund old backers, and give new blood (which likes the new direction) the old keys.
If those sales are traceable (which they are) then this would also act as marketing research, and as a counter against sycophants and shills who use sales as an argument.


If the game starts out good, and changes in a direction that noone likes, then resales stay unsold, and since they are prioritized over first party sales, this too is great marketing research, signalling that the game is in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and needs work.

If the game starts out good, and stays good, or becomes better, then resales would be low, and the only keys purchasable are from first party, this injects more money into the developers accounts, allowing them to continue their awesome trajectory.
In other words, that is marketing research as well.

The only issue is 'game bans' and things like purchased cosmetics/real money exchange, but that is not a problem any of us (customers) have to work out, that's a thing Steam and the devs need to address.

Technically its 100% possible of course, the data and datamanagement is there. The people in charge are just complacent because they can be because the game is rigged toward shady practices without resales.

P.S.:
A secondary benefit of resales is that resellers can sell the keys back at a discount even outside of developer/publisher sales.
They could in theory even put a 100% discount on the resell. Which is great for people on a budget.

I know I'd probably just give my X4 foundations and songs of syx copies away for free if I could. I regret the purchases that much, but I can't do that.
For seven days to die, barotrauma and bannerlord, I'd want some money back.

And now imagine being the community manager of any of those games, not having to deal with my disgruntled ass anymore perhaps in exchange for a new owner who loves all those games with his or her heart.

[Kirby]

Originally posted by SilverDiamond:

Originally posted by Kirby:

Yeah just make an unfinished game with no content and then work on it for years to bring it up to scratch, not at all scummy or what everybody is doing rn.

Yeah, because making an UNFINISHED game, and THEN adding both CONTENT and FIXING it is BETTER. Especially with, from what I've been told, this small team.

Hello? It's EARLY ACCESS for 10 years. You really consider this better than whatever games you wanted to compare it to? And Early Access, at least to ME, means that MECHANICS are not fixed. EA is not about content, it's about bugs and general stability. For example, I just lost my tachometer UI(User Interface) outside of the car. Looking for ways to fix it now. Apparently I need to delete some folders, and then launch game again?

EXCEPT IF YOU MARKET THE GAME AS FINISHED, IT BETTER ACTUALLY BE FINISHED. NOT A UNFINISHED PRODUCT SOLD AS A FINISHED ONE. THIS IS WHY EARLY ACCESS IS GOOD, IT ALLOWS THE DEVELOPER TO SELL AN UNFINISHED GAME, WHILE BEING UPFRONT ABOUT IT. AND MAKING SURE EVERY BUYER KNOWS THEY'RE BUYING AN UNFINISHED GAME.

[Kirby]

Originally posted by the.lovewyrm:

This would not be a problem if Steam, which IS escrow (a middle man for money exchange, more or less), would allow game resales, even just as store credits.

It's the best solution to work in tandem with the concept of early access games.

But it does not offer resale. So, people often get stuck with purchases that went in directions they didn't expect over a long time...and become disgruntled

Were resales a thing, and if resales were prioritized over developer/publisher sales then:

If game starts out good, and changes direction that disgruntles initial backers (yes, they are financers), but pleases newcomers...then a priority resale would refund old backers, and give new blood (which likes the new direction) the old keys.
If those sales are traceable (which they are) then this would also act as marketing research, and as a counter against sycophants and shills who use sales as an argument.


If the game starts out good, and changes in a direction that noone likes, then resales stay unsold, and since they are prioritized over first party sales, this too is great marketing research, signalling that the game is in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and needs work.

If the game starts out good, and stays good, or becomes better, then resales would be low, and the only keys purchasable are from first party, this injects more money into the developers accounts, allowing them to continue their awesome trajectory.
In other words, that is marketing research as well.

The only issue is 'game bans' and things like purchased cosmetics/real money exchange, but that is not a problem any of us (customers) have to work out, that's a thing Steam and the devs need to address.

Technically its 100% possible of course, the data and datamanagement is there. The people in charge are just complacent because they can be because the game is rigged toward shady practices without resales.

P.S.:
A secondary benefit of resales is that resellers can sell the keys back at a discount even outside of developer/publisher sales.
They could in theory even put a 100% discount on the resell. Which is great for people on a budget.

I know I'd probably just give my X4 foundations and songs of syx copies away for free if I could. I regret the purchases that much, but I can't do that.
For seven days to die, barotrauma and bannerlord, I'd want some money back.

And now imagine being the community manager of any of those games, not having to deal with my disgruntled ass anymore perhaps in exchange for a new owner who loves all those games with his or her heart.

As much as I'd want resales to be a thing. I don't think any publisher would allow that and they'd probably leave.

[SilverDiamond]

Originally posted by Kirby:

Originally posted by SilverDiamond:

Yeah, because making an UNFINISHED game, and THEN adding both CONTENT and FIXING it is BETTER. Especially with, from what I've been told, this small team.

Hello? It's EARLY ACCESS for 10 years. You really consider this better than whatever games you wanted to compare it to? And Early Access, at least to ME, means that MECHANICS are not fixed. EA is not about content, it's about bugs and general stability. For example, I just lost my tachometer UI(User Interface) outside of the car. Looking for ways to fix it now. Apparently I need to delete some folders, and then launch game again?

EXCEPT IF YOU MARKET THE GAME AS FINISHED, IT BETTER ACTUALLY BE FINISHED. NOT A UNFINISHED PRODUCT SOLD AS A FINISHED ONE. THIS IS WHY EARLY ACCESS IS GOOD, IT ALLOWS THE DEVELOPER TO SELL AN UNFINISHED GAME, WHILE BEING UPFRONT ABOUT IT. AND MAKING SURE EVERY BUYER KNOWS THEY'RE BUYING AN UNFINISHED GAME.

I have nothing to say to you. You defend the game that has been early access for 10 years, and instead of making it stable, developers add content instead.

Clearly you think that it is MORE important to have CONTENT, than a STABLE BUILD. Developers could have kept adding content AFTER F*CKING RELEASE.

Many games do that. Sure, it is paid content, but it's ADDED. DLC's are a THING. Make it free, if you want more customer loyalty. Or just don't make DLC's. Ever heard of Stardew Valley? They released the game, and then updated it with bunch of things over the years.


But no... Content first, and doesn't matter how long the game remains UNFINISHED.

[Kirby]

Originally posted by SilverDiamond:

Originally posted by Kirby:

EXCEPT IF YOU MARKET THE GAME AS FINISHED, IT BETTER ACTUALLY BE FINISHED. NOT A UNFINISHED PRODUCT SOLD AS A FINISHED ONE. THIS IS WHY EARLY ACCESS IS GOOD, IT ALLOWS THE DEVELOPER TO SELL AN UNFINISHED GAME, WHILE BEING UPFRONT ABOUT IT. AND MAKING SURE EVERY BUYER KNOWS THEY'RE BUYING AN UNFINISHED GAME.

I have nothing to say to you. You defend the game that has been early access for 10 years, and instead of making it stable, developers add content instead.

Clearly you think that it is MORE important to have CONTENT, than a STABLE BUILD. Developers could have kept adding content AFTER F*CKING RELEASE.

Many games do that. Sure, it is paid content, but it's ADDED. DLC's are a THING. Make it free, if you want more customer loyalty. Or just don't make DLC's. Ever heard of Stardew Valley? They released the game, and then updated it with bunch of things over the years.


But no... Content first, and doesn't matter how long the game remains UNFINISHED.

Stardew valley isn't a physics simulator now is it? Besides, adding content and improving the features aren't mutually exclusive, especially as those are kind of two different skill sets. The development is slow because it's a physics sim with its own in-house engine besides the torque3d used for graphics. Besides Stardew valley came out with an acceptable amount of content. That was later on expanded with more updates. Sure the devs of BeamNG could have spent years making a game that's very stable and has all the features ever, but would have like 10 cars and a couple of maps. IF they even get enough funding to finish those features.
I've never heard someone actually think it's good to have a game with no content, coz hurr durrr you can add later on with updates and DLC. Who cares that the game at launch has nothing to do. Just as long as the game is polished.

[shitass]

Originally posted by SilverDiamond:

Originally posted by Kirby:

EXCEPT IF YOU MARKET THE GAME AS FINISHED, IT BETTER ACTUALLY BE FINISHED. NOT A UNFINISHED PRODUCT SOLD AS A FINISHED ONE. THIS IS WHY EARLY ACCESS IS GOOD, IT ALLOWS THE DEVELOPER TO SELL AN UNFINISHED GAME, WHILE BEING UPFRONT ABOUT IT. AND MAKING SURE EVERY BUYER KNOWS THEY'RE BUYING AN UNFINISHED GAME.

I have nothing to say to you. You defend the game that has been early access for 10 years, and instead of making it stable, developers add content instead.

Clearly you think that it is MORE important to have CONTENT, than a STABLE BUILD. Developers could have kept adding content AFTER F*CKING RELEASE.

Many games do that. Sure, it is paid content, but it's ADDED. DLC's are a THING. Make it free, if you want more customer loyalty. Or just don't make DLC's. Ever heard of Stardew Valley? They released the game, and then updated it with bunch of things over the years.


But no... Content first, and doesn't matter how long the game remains UNFINISHED.

Beamng is very much focused on finishing the game rather than content.
The game is still not finsihed because the physics simulation is far more advanced than any other game and it is developed by a relatively small studio.

[mrjbean]

DO YE NOT WANT MORE CARS AND FEATURES? WELL THEN KEEP IT UP, SEE HOW THE REST OF YE LIKE IT!! YE WEE BITY DOBBER, YO DOATY HOWLING JACKY! AND BY THE WE, YE STILL HAVE THE STUPID GAME, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IF ITS IN EARLY ACSESS OR NOT!