Lack of realism here and there in car handling. "100% understeer"

[Kosm1cznY]

I noticed that BeamNG physics for cars are 100% understeer.
This is really weird. I wonder why front tires are so slippery and all car (I think, did not test them all yet but most of them) in game have weird weight distribution making cars slide out of corner or while testing driving in curves on wide open test tracks.
Just slide (understeer) as those BeamNG cars would not have any weight on rear end!
It is like zero centrifugal force working on cars rear end and no inertia!
I cannot understand this game mechanic. It is for sure unrealistic in this subject.

I am only testing driving in curves so no oversteer caused by RWD cars while turning and accelerating (more powerful cars more oversteer obviously) and no pendulum effect taken into this observation.

Edit:
I noticed that even in 2016 (preety old post) there was already not to good physics simulation in BeamNG.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/284160/discussions/0/154644349175551315/
Explanation was that FPS caused this feeling of understeer xD
But in modern times with powerfull PCs it is not an excuse anymore.
OR MAYBE to much FPS is also acting against making true physics of a car handling?? xD
BTW! I run this game at above 120FPS.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/284160/discussions/0/3344417304759057443/
+
https://steamcommunity.com/app/284160/discussions/0/2659872073614449246/
+
https://steamcommunity.com/app/284160/discussions/0/3052860798162793421/

Edit2: I am playing using steering whee setl!!!
Not sure why people just assume that I play on keyboard or gamepad!!

[Jaidensky]

Beamng does handle realistically, and understeer should be expected from any production road car made (beamng has a focus on these.) Plus the point of RWD cars not oversteering realistically I would have to say is false, as they do oversteer when applying throttle (to an extent, as it ultimately depends on things like tire thickness, road surface, sway bar/spring stiffness, weight distribution, suspension type, etc.
Now I’m not saying beam has a perfect portrayal of tire physics (they made a dev post sometime last year talking about the main issue, a wierd physics “gray zone,” plus there are no tire thermal/wear physics,) however it appears to be 95% there.

[BaitHoven]

Kosm1czny님이 먼저 게시:

I noticed that BeamNG physics for cars are 100% understeer.
This is really weird. I wonder why front tires are so slippery and all car (I think, did not test them all yet but most of them) in game have weird weight distribution making cars slide out of corner or while testing driving in curves on wide open test tracks.
Just slide (understeer) as those BeamNG cars would not have any weight on rear end!
It is like zero centrifugal force working on cars rear end and no inertia!
I cannot understand this game mechanic. It is for sure unrealistic in this subject.

I am only testing driving in curves so no oversteer caused by RWD cars while turning and accelerating (more powerful cars more oversteer obviously) and no pendulum effect taken into this observation.

Edit:
I noticed that even in 2016 (preety old post) there was already not to good physics simulation in BeamNG.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/284160/discussions/0/154644349175551315/
Explanation was that FPS caused this feeling of understeer xD
But in modern times with powerfull PCs it is not an excuse anymore.
OR MAYBE to much FPS is also acting against making true physics of a car handling?? xD
BTW! I run this game at above 120FPS.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/284160/discussions/0/3344417304759057443/
+
https://steamcommunity.com/app/284160/discussions/0/2659872073614449246/
+
https://steamcommunity.com/app/284160/discussions/0/3052860798162793421/

having played with a wheel and driven a real car i can say beamng is actually one of the most realistic car games out there. also if you are using a keyboard then thats your first problem, id use a controller at least. also you really gotta get a feel for the cars and how they drive, every one is slightly different.

[Bobby]

TankCatapult님이 먼저 게시:

Just as in real life, the level to which your car grips any given surface is relative to steering and throttle input.

For example, if you're trying to negotiate a corner at full steering lock, and at full throttle, you're going to understeer off into to the trees, explode and die. This happens both in real life, and Beam, so the issue isn't Beam's handling physics - The issue is the person using said physics.

Not correct. Tire compound affects road holding. Old days of radial/cross ply (mixing between front/rear resulted in fatal consequences) - look it up. Today we have tires made of different compounds https://help.summitracing.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4685/~/what-tire-compound-is-best-for-my-car%3F winter/summer and all year round tire compound. Previous to my synthetic Goodyear front tires, my car would under steer badly at the same corner at quite low speeds, now with the synthetics it grips permanently with no tire squeal or under steer at a much faster speed and front wheel drive. Another factors that games cannot replicate.
Racing cars have specialist tires that work at optimum temperature and will more or less keep a car glued to the road, as long as the temps are kept high. So if Beam was to be correct, the faster you went the hotter the tire becomes and the better the road holding and grip.
Instead we get worse handling and road holding and no temp increase whatsoever in the game the faster we drive. It stays the same regardless.

Your getting caught up in a lot of hype, here. This is factual.

This is a game about crashing physics not about tires

[LoSboccacc]

in general, if you're stuck with a keyboard I've the solution for you: https://www.beamng.com/threads/forza-steering-for-keyboard-and-gamepad.77578/

in particular, beamng handling is good, as long as you stay away from beamng cars, which have terrible setups*. automation cars do port very well to beamng, but you can't just look at the low cornering speed to get an idea of car handling.

high speed cornering gives a somewhat more appropriate close idea of handling, but the graph is a plot on ideal conditions, possibly with the car under traction, I don't remember the detail, but whether you're braking, accellerating or coasting has a huge impact on results.

*almost invariably the default car are setup with massively oversteer, so they play well with the default keyboard, and if you use the default keyboard, the car will be always understeering as you cannot give a partial steering angle.

[Kosm1cznY]

Bobby님이 먼저 게시:

This is a game about crashing physics not about tires

Well this part may be wrong as BeamNG taking into account many thing about tires (They can be even punctured) and as menioned it lacks maybe only tires temp and wear.
If they add it one day then it can compete with other sim games but as I mentioned in OP there is weird lack of more true and believable car handling.

[SirSilverLXVIII]

TheHuskyGT님이 먼저 게시:

This game has possibly the most accurate physics (as of current version) of any other game that calls itself a simulator. Not even Assetto Corsa gets close. It still has some more work to be done, but it's safe to say they are getting close to nailing it.

Do you use a wheel? Because this game is 100% meant to be used with one. Regular cars with normal street tires behave exactly the same when compared to the cars I've owned in real life when pushed to the limit.

I've driven in many different weather conditions, from dry and humid heat to harsh winters with snow and ice, on new tires to really worn down ones. this game does a pretty good job when I compare the feel of certain cars that could be comparable to my irl cars.

This right here

[A Fat, Angry Serval]

I've had similar issues driving with a pad. I have a racing wheel but it's in storage in another state. The game treats inputs identically regardless of what controller you use, so tapping the stick quickly is basically the same as turning from straight ahead to full lock in an instant.

[Antonio Margheriti]

Hm I used to find BeamNG had weird handling, but nowadays? I think its about up there in handling along with other racing sims. I usually understeer or oversteer in situations I believe would have the same consequences in a real life scenario. Just use less gas or lay on the brakes, getting weight to your front works as well in BeamNG as actual racing sims I find.

So far BeamNG is far better than AC. That game? Understeer simulator for no reason you HAVE to trail brake to turn at nearly all times, unrealistic.

Is BeamNG better than RF2, AMS2, or iRacing? Probably not but it's getting there, it needs more work in general.

[Bobby]

Kosm1czny님이 먼저 게시:

Bobby님이 먼저 게시:

This is a game about crashing physics not about tires

Well this part may be wrong as BeamNG taking into account many thing about tires (They can be even punctured) and as menioned it lacks maybe only tires temp and wear.
If they add it one day then it can compete with other sim games but as I mentioned in OP there is weird lack of more true and believable car handling.

Snowrunner models punctures. Also ice tires,snow tires,off-road tires in varying sizes,widths
all with modelled friction. The trucks even model suspension damage amongst other component modelling. spintires does the same minus the ice,snow physics.
If Beam was to believed in the tire dept it would carry a brand name to emphasise it’s ‘realism’.
Take for example European Truck Simulator 2. It carries fully endorsed branded tires on its trucks: Goodyear,Michelin: that the player has several different compounds to choose from.

Like Snowrunner, Beam has just taken a generic setting and implied it to the game. Except that Snowrunner takes it to another level with road and off-road conditions. Which Beam doesn’t do and can’t as it has no mud,snow or ice with proper physics. Ie no deformity of surfaces or tire tracks.
If you want bragging rights then you need to back it up with a comparison.
Also regards snappy steering, modern cars have electronic steering control which gives quicker response to turn in an emergency at low speed and controls the snap response at high speed, so as not to roll the car or put it into a 360 incident. Again games like F1 model steering response which could be put into Beam to negate the variations in controller used. But all of this is subject to the engine capabilities.

[BORDER OF PURGATORY]

Bobby님이 먼저 게시:

Like Snowrunner, Beam has just taken a generic setting and implied it to the game.

has nothing to do with how anything in beamng works at all regarding physics

[BaitHoven]

Bobby님이 먼저 게시:

Kosm1czny님이 먼저 게시:

Again games like F1 model steering response which could be put into Beam to negate the variations in controller used. But all of this is subject to the engine capabilities.

beamng has an option for controllers to limit sensitivity at speed, you can customize it to your liking. really helps if you play with a controller imo.

[Bobby]

choekyong.tsering.kabaddi.2009님이 먼저 게시:

Bobby님이 먼저 게시:

Like Snowrunner, Beam has just taken a generic setting and implied it to the game.

has nothing to do with how anything in beamng works at all regarding physics

And tires have nothing to do with Beam regarding physics, either. So your point?
Is that the best comeback…seriously after putting up references to tires in in mud,ice ,snow physics.

In case you’ve completely missed the discussion, it’s about tires and the lack of bragging rights applied to them in Beam. There’s not one jot of authoritative literature to be had to tires in the game.
As I’ve said, ETS2 has official tires from Michelin and Dunlop in the game, providing info. Where is Beam’s ‘official’ tires.
Or put it this way, all tires on every car on the road is branded. Be it unknown or fully known, by law they have to past all safety tests to be used legally,
So back to Beam. Provide proof that these in-game tires are branded following tests and information that correspond to real-world tires and their behaviour. Then we have an equal footing to discuss bragging rights not just a bunch of forum users saying “it’s real” because I say so.
They are not real as per the real world, because they can’t be, but they can model branded tires data. Which is what I want to see.
Till then it’s all bull….
No one is arguing about the engine physics -BeamNG.
Even F1 games model tire wear and overheating, something that Beam doesn’t do either.
People somehow thing they are Michael Schumacher because they play this with a wheel and pedals. Like thinking your Tom Cruise because you bought a HOTAS in Falcon 4. It doesn’t change anything about the game. Maybe in your head, but that’s about it.

[Prezidentas]

Bobby님이 먼저 게시:

choekyong.tsering.kabaddi.2009님이 먼저 게시:

has nothing to do with how anything in beamng works at all regarding physics

And tires have nothing to do with Beam regarding physics, either. So your point?
Is that the best comeback…seriously after putting up references to tires in in mud,ice ,snow physics.

In case you’ve completely missed the discussion, it’s about tires and the lack of bragging rights applied to them in Beam. There’s not one jot of authoritative literature to be had to tires in the game.
As I’ve said, ETS2 has official tires from Michelin and Dunlop in the game, providing info. Where is Beam’s ‘official’ tires.
Or put it this way, all tires on every car on the road is branded. Be it unknown or fully known, by law they have to past all safety tests to be used legally,
So back to Beam. Provide proof that these in-game tires are branded following tests and information that correspond to real-world tires and their behaviour. Then we have an equal footing to discuss bragging rights not just a bunch of forum users saying “it’s real” because I say so.
They are not real as per the real world, because they can’t be, but they can model branded tires data. Which is what I want to see

do you actually believe ETS2 gets traction data? It's just a sponsorship to advertise the manufacturers, nothing else.

[Bobby]

Red Star Gopnik님이 먼저 게시:

Bobby님이 먼저 게시:

And tires have nothing to do with Beam regarding physics, either. So your point?
Is that the best comeback…seriously after putting up references to tires in in mud,ice ,snow physics.

In case you’ve completely missed the discussion, it’s about tires and the lack of bragging rights applied to them in Beam. There’s not one jot of authoritative literature to be had to tires in the game.
As I’ve said, ETS2 has official tires from Michelin and Dunlop in the game, providing info. Where is Beam’s ‘official’ tires.
Or put it this way, all tires on every car on the road is branded. Be it unknown or fully known, by law they have to past all safety tests to be used legally,
So back to Beam. Provide proof that these in-game tires are branded following tests and information that correspond to real-world tires and their behaviour. Then we have an equal footing to discuss bragging rights not just a bunch of forum users saying “it’s real” because I say so.
They are not real as per the real world, because they can’t be, but they can model branded tires data. Which is what I want to see

do you actually believe ETS2 gets traction data? It's just a sponsorship to advertise the manufacturers, nothing else.

Here’s a modders take on the official tires in ETS2 and taking data

https://ets2mods.lt/euro-truck-simulator-2-mods/ets2-partstuning/real-tyres-mod-v6-0-1-27-x-1-30-x/

That also has wet weather grip, noise braking. Be it so.
Do you believe that non existent tires in Beam represent real tires when they present no data whatsoever and yet we have a load of forum users that no nothing about tires, bragging that they do in a game that doesn’t even present a real world equivalent? You realise how stupid that is. The first thing someone is going to say is “show me the real world proof” of where you get your facts from.

Here is BeamNG take on tires
https://www.beamng.com/game/news/patch/a-look-at-tire-development-in-beamng-part-1/
But this is just ‘pulled’ out of the sky figures. Like I said, go to a manufacturer of tires and put their name and data to a tire, then I Will believe you. Once they’ve driven it and said, “yep that’s how our tires would handle in a real life scenario”

I honestly couldn’t care less about forum comments unless there’s conclusive evidence as to where Beam get their data from and whom supplied it (name/company). Till then it’s a badly handling game that doesn’t represent real life (32 years driving with a multitude of tires,weather conditions and vehicles - inc worn steering and shock absorbers and worn brakes) Trying to match real-life with a game is a dodgy area in anyones eyes, especially vehicle handling on such a complex scale. There’s no tactile feedback, no foot pedal pressure, no weight on the steering wheel - or lack off on ice,aqua planning, unequal tire pressure, tread depth or my backside sitting in the seat!

As a crash simulator, no one is debating that - though even that is dodgy with engines still running when the vehicle has plunged off a cliff to the point of being flat! The whole front end mangled and yet it’s still drives along with full transmission….it’s happened many a time which couldn’t due to electrics being destroyed (no spark or fuel delivery)

[Ozone]

i too find this very annoying. i havent played many racing games but in my 10 years of driving fwd rwd awd i havent seen such understeer as in this game