Salt and Sanctuary

Salt and Sanctuary

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jordanjadallah 12 AGO 2016 a las 21:17
Two things I need help understanding....
1. I started the game with the "Three" creed. I want to keep them for the weapon buffs but know I need to switch to "Stone Root" creed so I can make a Black Widow weapon. Will I be able to switch back? Should I wait to level my "Three" creed until I get the Black Widow?

I am sure this is stupid but who do I actually level up my creed with?

2. Should I save my "Stone Merchants" and "Stone Blacksmiths" until later?


Lastly, I want to be a spellsword or battlemage type character. So, does that mean I should use Wands? Ideally I would use the Black Widow and my spells about evenly just like I do in Dark Souls.
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jordanjadallah 12 AGO 2016 a las 21:47 
Ok so I did a little research and it seems somewhere there is a NPC who let me go back to my former creed. I really wish I just hadn't picked a Creed waited until I found the Stone Roots Alchemist made my frigging Black Widow and then went back and joined "The Three"........oh well.

I assume if I want the Black Widow early I need that Alchemist. Still not sure if I should level Wands or Staves though.....how much Swordsman do I need to one hand my Black Widow? At the moment I feel like my build will center around leveling Sword, Magic and either Stave or Wand. Does that sound good?

P.S Dark Souls never made it this much of a hassle to switch covenants....wish they would have copied that aspect as well.... game is obtuse enough without a map.
Klendt 13 AGO 2016 a las 6:42 
1: You can find a stone alchemist to recruit one of your own two to three bosses after the Stone Roots. Jumping ship to them is really more of a matter of expedience, but there's something you can do about that too. More on that later.
2: Rank 3 swordsman allows you to one-hand class 2 greatswords, albeit with an understandably different moveset and slightly slower swing speed.

(Personally, what I did with my arcane build was, I kept a staff on one loadout and a greatsword on the other with a charm attached to it - staves take two hands no matter what, but have two spell slots to enable you to alternate between two different elements to prevent elemental feedback, lending themselves to a more spamhappy playstyle.)

PROTIP: if you can get your mitts on a crystal sphere, you can use that to convert an existing sanctuary and its occupants to your creed, with none of the hassle of going apostate and potentially paying out the nose to be brought back in the fold. That said, the first crystal sphere you can find, not as a gift, is just a bit before the first stone alchemist idol you can find.

(At any rate, swapping creeds is rather deliberately more of a pain than changing covenants here. It's a bit more akin to changing gods in a roguelike than it is switching covenants - it wouldn't do to encourage new players to be too cavalier about it, although the NotVelka candlelit maiden does exist to clear up those early game headaches, and crystal spheres can be used to reclaim some "lost" sanctuaries if you intend on staying for the rest or most of the rest of the game.)
Última edición por Klendt; 13 AGO 2016 a las 6:54
jordanjadallah 13 AGO 2016 a las 17:41 
So, I should have basically not picked a Creed and waited until I got Black Widow.....Once I get myself Black Widow will it be fairly easy to pay the guy to allow me back into "The Three"? I do want to get Black Widow asap.

Could I have one loadout with a Stave and one with the Black Widow and a Wand?

What is "elemental feedback"? sounds scary.

If I focus on Swordsman, Magic, Staves and Wands will be pretty much set? Obviously I won't max everyone but I like to be able to adapt to different situations. Thank you for your time. I am honestly having more trouble wrapping my head around this game than the Souls series.
Rhudda 13 AGO 2016 a las 18:06 
Publicado originalmente por jordanjadallah:
So, I should have basically not picked a Creed and waited until I got Black Widow.....Once I get myself Black Widow will it be fairly easy to pay the guy to allow me back into "The Three"? I do want to get Black Widow asap.

Could I have one loadout with a Stave and one with the Black Widow and a Wand?

What is "elemental feedback"? sounds scary.

If I focus on Swordsman, Magic, Staves and Wands will be pretty much set? Obviously I won't max everyone but I like to be able to adapt to different situations. Thank you for your time. I am honestly having more trouble wrapping my head around this game than the Souls series.

Well, all you need to change back is a little salt. It's really not that much.

You absolutely can have one weapon set with a staff and one with a sword and wand, but it'll take a lot of black pearls (skill points) and thus levels to be as effective as someone who focuses on, say, swords and wands. You'll be better at magic, though.

Elemental feedback basically makes you alternate between fire and lightning spells. Once you start casting, you'll notice a bar filling up. As long as you cast spells of one element, the bar will increase, and once it's full, you'll take damage. It can hurt quite a bit. But when you cast a spell of the other element, the bar either resets or decreases - not quite sure which since it's been a while. The bar will decrease on its own if you stop casting. You're safe as long as you either alternate or take breaks by, say, slashing enemies up with Black Widows instead.

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking in your last question there, but if you take a look at the tree of skills, you'll see that magic takes up the left large circle. Stave skills are along the top and wands along the bottom. Swords have their own branch up the left side of the "trunk", if you will. You'll need to diversify a bit to get what you want. Jack of all trades, that kind of thing.
jordanjadallah 13 AGO 2016 a las 18:56 
Thanks man, this game has some really helpful players. I was basically just wanted to see if it would be viable to use say Black Widow a Wand and a Stave as back up.

What is the deal with the Merchant Stones you find? For example I have one that will bring in a vendor who sells Staves but I am not sure if I should use it or wait? Especially since I will have to change Creeds at least once.
Klendt 13 AGO 2016 a las 20:47 
I'm not fully sure how much you know, so I'll try to be thorough. The sanctuary system is important enough to be a part of the title, after all.

In a nutshell though, don't worry about using those stone idols. You'll get more.

Your creed isn't something you can "not" take. It's a fundamental aspect of your character and a key form of your character's progression.
After you've claimed a sanctuary, you can use stone idols to populate that sanctuary with creed-aligned NPCs. The goods they sell you are dependant on your rank within that creed, and what creed it is.
There are plenty of each type of stone idol, and stone guides tend to be by far the most common.

If you leave their creed, they'll be a bit pissy and refuse advanced services to you, but if you rejoin the creed via the candlelit maiden, they'll go back to providing service as normal. You can also convert them and the sanctuary with a crystal sphere.

They'll also provide passive bonuses to the region tied to that sanctuary, so a stone blacksmith will give you an attack boost to the stage associated with that name in addition to weapon upgrades, a stone mage will sell you spells and staves and stuff in addition to providing a passive magic attack bonus, et cetra.
You can only place four idols per sanctuary, so choose wisely.

The guide NPC sells calling horns dirt cheap that can teleport you to him, and when you're at him, you can warp to any non-hostile sanctuary that you've ever visited. Don't worry too much about where you make a blacksmiths-and-alchemists-and-merchants populated home-base sanctuary, so long as you've gotten yourself any guides.

The stone leader idol is the absolute key to progression. Not only does turning items in to the leader allow you to permanently increase the items you get on resting at an allied sanctuary, they're items of your choosing - if you wanted a permanent supply of weapon buffs, or MP healing items, or you just wanted 15 health flasks, it's your choice. Also, it adds items to the merchant, blacksmith, cleric, and mage's inventory for sale.
Rhudda 14 AGO 2016 a las 3:31 
Publicado originalmente por jordanjadallah:
Thanks man, this game has some really helpful players. I was basically just wanted to see if it would be viable to use say Black Widow a Wand and a Stave as back up.

What is the deal with the Merchant Stones you find? For example I have one that will bring in a vendor who sells Staves but I am not sure if I should use it or wait? Especially since I will have to change Creeds at least once.

As long as you don't switch creeds willy-nilly, this shouldn't be a problem. I personally usually have two home bases, each with a guide (more to teleport away from than to them) and one each of the rest of the NPCs I'll need for the character I'm playing. A leader, a blacksmith and an alchemist in one base (my upgrading base), and a mage, merchant and sellsword in the other (my shopping base plus potential multiplayer). The crystal spheres Old King Klendt mentioned are rather rare, so the fewer such bases you have, the better if you plan to change your creed more than once.

The rest of the sanctuaries I decorate with what I think is best for the region.

There is... another way to change a sanctuary's creed, but it's not advisable to use it for your bases:
If you have a stained page you can use it at the altar (make sure there's a prompt or you'll waste it) to desacrate the sanctuary. The NPCs will turn hostile and you'll have to kill them. Since there is a finite amount of NPC stones, you don't want to use that too often if you plan on replacing them.
jordanjadallah 15 AGO 2016 a las 19:12 
Thanks again, guys. What do you suggest? Should I two hand Black Widow and use a stave or invest in Swordsman and one hand the Black Widow with a wand?

I am currently using Lighting Bolt what is the next spell I should be on the look out for? The next upgrade spell I guess.
Rhudda 16 AGO 2016 a las 0:44 
Publicado originalmente por jordanjadallah:
I am currently using Lighting Bolt what is the next spell I should be on the look out for? The next upgrade spell I guess.

Lightning bolt is fairly powerful and efficient throughout the game if you keep your stats high. Fireball is a good counterpart. Once you have stamina to spare, lightning barrage and flame barrage (and later dragonfire) are extremely high DPS spells.

There's also incantations - spells that go in the bottom row in your inventory and that you don't need a wand or staff for. Interesting ones for spellblades are venomous blade and arcane weapon, but others include area of effect attacks that can be quite devastating. Those might be interesting for a two-handed black widow build when you're in the thick of things and don't have time to switch to a staff and cast a normal spell.
Última edición por Rhudda; 16 AGO 2016 a las 0:45
jordanjadallah 16 AGO 2016 a las 17:30 
Thanks again. Would I be more powerful maxing out Swordsman and One Handing Black Widow with a Wand or Two Handing Black Widow and switching to a stave?

I think I am going to use my first Mage Stone at the Stone Creed. I need to buy a Stave and Fireball. That will give me a little time to find out how to go back to "The Three" Creed. Is there something late game that will be better for a magic build than Black Widow? Someone mentioned a One Handed Sword that sounded really good for a mage build.
Klendt 16 AGO 2016 a las 23:06 
As a mage merchant's stock is dependant on the rank of your creed, I strongly recommend you not use your stone mage merchant on a creed you don't intend to stay in.

The Branding Iron and Shikeimaru rank 4 swords both have S-rank magic scaling, so they're nice weapons.
That said, almost every mage tool and spell scales extremely well even into lategame. I've beaten the game using almost nothing but the Black Widow and backup spells with no problem.
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Publicado el: 12 AGO 2016 a las 21:17
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