Was about to buy but won't. We should value our time.

[Spaceman]

I just came back to work and was about to buy the game, then i remembered what the dev reaction was when people asked them to tune down or remove the water mechanic. Does those people get hard by having an edge on people ? Is it some power mechanic at play ? It's not even FOMO at this point, it's literally being held hostage by the game.

Why should i support something done by someone that will not respect my time ?
It is a toxic relationship to support something (especially with money) and then expect it to change. So i won't buy the game.

In fact, i will never buy this game as long as water depletion is active when you're logged off. I don't want to loose ALL my stuff because i don't play.

It's not about the money, it's not about the game being hard, it's not about the game not being finished, it's about respect.
I'm not going to spend time with someone or/and something that doesn't respect my time. We say time is money because it has great value ; you have a set amount of time ahead of you in life (you mostly not know how much time you have) - don't waste it.

For almost 30 bucks, i'm going to go and get coffee and muffins with my GF. It will be time well spent with someone that care about me.

Value your time people. Don't waste it on stupid .
Thanks for listening to my Tedx talk.

P.S : don't bother being emotional if you answer, i don't care that your daddy didn't love you, i'm not your therapist, get help if you thing this is ok to have to put playing a videogame in your schedule to not loose progress.

[Snu]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EvilChaosKnight:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spaceman:

It's the whole "you don't play, you get the stick" that bother me. We shouldn't endorse it.

Exactly what confuses me about everyone defending the water system. Sure, if you neglect your resources while playing and get shafted, that's natural for many (most) survival games. That I can understand and support fully.

But to have an offline doomclock for a coop looter game? What is this, a second job? IMO it's simply ridiculous. It's like if I happened to boot up my private Ark server from 3 years ago to find everything ruined and everyone starved to death because I haven't played for a long time. Unless it's a live-service, the game stuff should be contained to the game and never bleed into the real world in any shape or form

Real-life timers make sense for stuff like boosters from F2P live-service titles because they live and breathe by having a stable player count. They need player retention or they die. PVP games need healthy player bases to keep running, sure. But something SP-coop? Why try to chain every single player to your game, especially at the cost of alienating many potential buyers? And once a person breaks away eventually, many may find themselves disheartened to ever return to the game, because they'd know that everything they had before would be gone

Personally, my friend group and I have many games we play on and off, sometimes with gaps spanning months and more between sessions and/or new runs. Guess we are skipping this one, at least until the water system is reworked or removed

As a final note, for those defending said mechanic, riddle me this. What is the purpose of the water system as it currently stands? What benefits to either game's enjoyment or, perhaps, player counts does it offer?

im pulling in 3-7 days of water every 10 minutes. Play the game and upgrade to the 1c/8o rig. Honestly, the 90-day manditory wipe mechanics of games like escape from tarkov or dark and darker, which FORCE you to play against a time-crunch, and wipe ALL EXP, progression, stash, etc, is a much more punishing mechanic than the 99 day water storage and 999999999 water storage in your stash.

You DO NOT LOSE EXP/PRESTIGE if your water runs out, you only lose your stash and base upgrades.

Whats the point of the water mechanic? Its a survival game. Why are there water/food mechanics in tarkov? Why do freighters in EVE require jump-fuel? Why do you need to feed resources to your tool cabinet in Rust in order to keep your land claim active?

[Agent]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Snu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EvilChaosKnight:

Exactly what confuses me about everyone defending the water system. Sure, if you neglect your resources while playing and get shafted, that's natural for many (most) survival games. That I can understand and support fully.

But to have an offline doomclock for a coop looter game? What is this, a second job? IMO it's simply ridiculous. It's like if I happened to boot up my private Ark server from 3 years ago to find everything ruined and everyone starved to death because I haven't played for a long time. Unless it's a live-service, the game stuff should be contained to the game and never bleed into the real world in any shape or form

Real-life timers make sense for stuff like boosters from F2P live-service titles because they live and breathe by having a stable player count. They need player retention or they die. PVP games need healthy player bases to keep running, sure. But something SP-coop? Why try to chain every single player to your game, especially at the cost of alienating many potential buyers? And once a person breaks away eventually, many may find themselves disheartened to ever return to the game, because they'd know that everything they had before would be gone

Personally, my friend group and I have many games we play on and off, sometimes with gaps spanning months and more between sessions and/or new runs. Guess we are skipping this one, at least until the water system is reworked or removed

As a final note, for those defending said mechanic, riddle me this. What is the purpose of the water system as it currently stands? What benefits to either game's enjoyment or, perhaps, player counts does it offer?

im pulling in 3-7 days of water every 10 minutes. Play the game and upgrade to the 1c/8o rig. Honestly, the 90-day manditory wipe mechanics of games like escape from tarkov or dark and darker, which FORCE you to play against a time-crunch, and wipe ALL EXP, progression, stash, etc, is a much more punishing mechanic than the 99 day water storage and 999999999 water storage in your stash.

You DO NOT LOSE EXP/PRESTIGE if your water runs out, you only lose your stash and base upgrades.

Whats the point of the water mechanic? Its a survival game. Why are there water/food mechanics in tarkov? Why do freighters in EVE require jump-fuel? Why do you need to feed resources to your tool cabinet in Rust in order to keep your land claim active?

Rust and EVE are pvp , in most pve servers in Rust your base don't even decay because its pve and mods disable it.
, Tarkov you need food/water in raid not when you are offline , pvp wipes in tarkov can take up to 9 months and thats all of players not 1 guy who didn't log in , Pve tarkov doesn't even wipe , misinformation , what are you talking about ? , this game is a PvE game which you cannot even matchmade with random players , Water mechanic is just a "keeping player numbers on steam charts up" mechanic nothing more , if the devs want a hardcore game they should make the gameplay hardcore and making the game optimized , adding bad mechanic and bad AI and design is not making the game hardcore is making the game a chore to play. All I see here is developers are like hunt:showdown developers and they destroyed the UI because of their ego , if you want your game to die don't listen to your community.

[Gord]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ☠Elimination☠:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Formous:

If I may OP, I can secure a day of water in 2 minutes. I can secure 2 new guns in 3. And I can buy ammo for them for many matches in 2. If you are worried about respecting time, don't.

This is a lie. I have played for almost 4 hours and found only 2 waters that wasnt from quests. If you have some secret to getting it in 2 minutes please share it with the rest of us.

The trench map, you run from spawn to extract through the underground tunnels and pick up all the loot on the way and extract in 3 minutes

[Pure Hostility]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spaceman:

(...)
I can believe that there are ways to cheese water when you know the map. Then again, if it's so easy to go around - It make sense to have a water focused economy in game. It's the whole "you don't play, you get the stick" that bother me. We shouldn't endorse it.

You need to understand vast majority of mechanics are heavily WIP, including water, which they further emphasised recently by pinning posts on discord and mentioning it in their Q&A.

If you find the water mechanic in FW annoying or not respecting your time spent on playing, then why you don't mention other games, such as Rust or other pvp survival games, or V Rising which has a similar upkeep system?

Major progression is tied to the character XPs, which aren't reset if you do, in some miraculous way, run out of water.
What is reset when you run out of it is basically always on the stake if you do happen to take it into a mission and die, losing it permanently.

Reputation is fluid, it constantly changes, innards progression is just tied to how much water you have, so it's not much of a loss either... What else do you lose?

I do personally find water mechanic fun and actually engaging, as it fits the world, the dread of succumbing to the thirst/hunger while surrounded by a neverending war.

I would suggest you wait on the game and see how devs take it from here. They already shown us how passionate they are about this project and do listen to suggestions of the community, but clearly stated they want water persistency to stay in, which I approve.

I hated how devs often cave in and change some core mechanic to appease "sunday players" who skip from game to game after just few hours.

[ImACat]

Just give players option to enable or disabled it instead of arguing non stop about it. It's not a competitive game anyway...... This reminds me of casual vs sweatdivers in helldiver2 all over again.

[Darkside99x]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pure Hostility:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spaceman:

(...)
I can believe that there are ways to cheese water when you know the map. Then again, if it's so easy to go around - It make sense to have a water focused economy in game. It's the whole "you don't play, you get the stick" that bother me. We shouldn't endorse it.

You need to understand vast majority of mechanics are heavily WIP, including water, which they further emphasised recently by pinning posts on discord and mentioning it in their Q&A.

If you find the water mechanic in FW annoying or not respecting your time spent on playing, then why you don't mention other games, such as Rust or other pvp survival games, or V Rising which has a similar upkeep system?

Major progression is tied to the character XPs, which aren't reset if you do, in some miraculous way, run out of water.
What is reset when you run out of it is basically always on the stake if you do happen to take it into a mission and die, losing it permanently.

Reputation is fluid, it constantly changes, innards progression is just tied to how much water you have, so it's not much of a loss either... What else do you lose?

I do personally find water mechanic fun and actually engaging, as it fits the world, the dread of succumbing to the thirst/hunger while surrounded by a neverending war.

I would suggest you wait on the game and see how devs take it from here. They already shown us how passionate they are about this project and do listen to suggestions of the community, but clearly stated they want water persistency to stay in, which I approve.

I hated how devs often cave in and change some core mechanic to appease "sunday players" who skip from game to game after just few hours.

Then the reasonable alternative is to activate systems as they are ready.

All this has done is tarnish the release and cost them sales.

Look at Nightingale, they started off doing something that directly drove away players and despite making it right later, still haven't crept passed mixed reviews. The damage was done.

[WhiskeyJim68]

A bit of a hot take, but I think the water mechanic will keep people (the ones who like the concept of the game) at least minimally engaged to provide feedback during what will probably be a rough development. Getting water in game is not difficult ...in fact its probably too easy at the moment due to several other issues with the game. The whole "value your time" cliche that is spreading among the sheeple is already getting pretty tired and played out. If you value your time so much dont spend it on forums for a game that you clearly did no research on prior to purchase/stating why you won't purchase.

[Iron Horse]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Snu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EvilChaosKnight:

Exactly what confuses me about everyone defending the water system. Sure, if you neglect your resources while playing and get shafted, that's natural for many (most) survival games. That I can understand and support fully.

But to have an offline doomclock for a coop looter game? What is this, a second job? IMO it's simply ridiculous. It's like if I happened to boot up my private Ark server from 3 years ago to find everything ruined and everyone starved to death because I haven't played for a long time. Unless it's a live-service, the game stuff should be contained to the game and never bleed into the real world in any shape or form

Real-life timers make sense for stuff like boosters from F2P live-service titles because they live and breathe by having a stable player count. They need player retention or they die. PVP games need healthy player bases to keep running, sure. But something SP-coop? Why try to chain every single player to your game, especially at the cost of alienating many potential buyers? And once a person breaks away eventually, many may find themselves disheartened to ever return to the game, because they'd know that everything they had before would be gone

Personally, my friend group and I have many games we play on and off, sometimes with gaps spanning months and more between sessions and/or new runs. Guess we are skipping this one, at least until the water system is reworked or removed

As a final note, for those defending said mechanic, riddle me this. What is the purpose of the water system as it currently stands? What benefits to either game's enjoyment or, perhaps, player counts does it offer?

aggressive sucking noises

You didn't bother actually addressing the main issue, as usual. Nobody in defense of this horrid mechanic seems capable of actually addressing the core problem, they merely dance around it with strawmen. Yawn.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spaceman:

I just came back to work and was about to buy the game, then i remembered what the dev reaction was when people asked them to tune down or remove the water mechanic. Does those people get hard by having an edge on people ? Is it some power mechanic at play ? It's not even FOMO at this point, it's literally being held hostage by the game.

Why should i support something done by someone that will not respect my time ?
It is a toxic relationship to support something (especially with money) and then expect it to change. So i won't buy the game.

In fact, i will never buy this game as long as water depletion is active when you're logged off. I don't want to loose ALL my stuff because i don't play.

It's not about the money, it's not about the game being hard, it's not about the game not being finished, it's about respect.
I'm not going to spend time with someone or/and something that doesn't respect my time. We say time is money because it has great value ; you have a set amount of time ahead of you in life (you mostly not know how much time you have) - don't waste it.

For almost 30 bucks, i'm going to go and get coffee and muffins with my GF. It will be time well spent with someone that care about me.

Value your time people. Don't waste it on stupid :DSTpoop:.
Thanks for listening to my Tedx talk. :broflex::yaranaika:

P.S : don't bother being emotional if you answer, i don't care that your daddy didn't love you, i'm not your therapist, get help if you thing this is ok to have to put playing a videogame in your schedule to not loose progress.

I'm kinda in the same boat. Saw it's out and wanted to buy it, but then read the reviews. I don't need anxiety while not playing a game.

[ruiner]

I don't see the point of a mechanic like this, tied to real life time, other than to drive potential players away myself included.

Seriously, why don't make it optional? Like a separate mode with additional bonuses for those who choose to play in this way. It's a PvE game after all.

I like survival games- I played all the S.T.AL.K.E.R. franchise (and its mods like Misery, Call of Chernobyl, and Anomaly), Kenshi, Project Zomboid, The Forest, Hunt, and DayZ, even though I haven't really enjoyed the last two titles.

I've been waiting for this game since the first teasers were published because it reminded me of Mad God, and I'm sad because if they're going for features like the current water mechanic it means I will never play it.

[Spaceman]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pure Hostility:

You need to understand vast majority of mechanics are heavily WIP, including water, which they further emphasised recently by pinning posts on discord and mentioning it in their Q&A.

If you find the water mechanic in FW annoying or not respecting your time spent on playing, then why you don't mention other games, such as Rust or other pvp survival games, or V Rising which has a similar upkeep system?

I don't play those games. Some survival i did play when they released. Most of them i stopped playing because of this thread argument : i value my time. This seems to upset people, not sure why, but i will not endorse a game who purposely waste my time.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pure Hostility:

I would suggest you wait on the game and see how devs take it from here. They already shown us how passionate they are about this project and do listen to suggestions of the community, but clearly stated they want water persistency to stay in, which I approve.

I hated how devs often cave in and change some core mechanic to appease "sunday players" who skip from game to game after just few hours.

It's a fair point, i'm not "giving up" on TFW yet. I hope they let down this useless mechanic and focus on making a better game than most of what's on the extract/looters on the market. From my point of view it's a safe bet that if they don't rework it heavily or remove it, the game will massively loose in appeal.

Note that bad sales today will affect tomorrow's project.

A good extraction game i play is Quasimorph. There is no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mechanic that hold you down. If you die on a mission you loose everything you had on you and were carrying. There are no penalties for not playing and playing poorly means you go back to your ship and have to start again.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EvilChaosKnight:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spaceman:

It's the whole "you don't play, you get the stick" that bother me. We shouldn't endorse it.

Exactly what confuses me about everyone defending the water system. Sure, if you neglect your resources while playing and get shafted, that's natural for many (most) survival games. That I can understand and support fully.

But to have an offline doomclock for a coop looter game? What is this, a second job? [...]

I'm afraid we're down a road of popularizing pointless "time wasting" mechanics.
Same vibe of having enemies with millions of hitpoints or having to fuse ores to make refined ores to make refined ores to make ...

I feel like a lot of people confuse a gameplay with depth with a gameplay bloated by useless systems, creating delays to get things.

[Diarmuhnd]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spaceman:

...
I'm not going to spend time with someone or/and something that doesn't respect my time. We say time is money because it has great value ; you have a set amount of tim
...

Indeed, go back to Grand Theft auto, you have wasted plenty of time in that and many other Triple A's. LoL

[Spaceman]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Diarmuhnd:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spaceman:

...
I'm not going to spend time with someone or/and something that doesn't respect my time. We say time is money because it has great value ; you have a set amount of tim
...

Indeed, go back to Grand Theft auto, you have wasted plenty of time in that and many other Triple A's. LoL :mead::DMderp::cactusrum:

I actually had a lot of fun playing GTA with my friends.

None of these games had a time wasting mechanic that punish you for being logged off. You could go on about your life, come back and play - no strings attached.

[duffbeeer]

gamer bros making a little issue into something controversial again because they have nothing else to do with their time.

[BigDaddyG0blin]

Good leave, we don't want you. Not every game has to be for you. Roblox has plenty of space for ya.