"You are Not this Guy"

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Even if that means the enemies make you seem like "you are this guy" despite the salvaged armor and gear, that thing is exactly the kind of guy I'd want to be. It's basically just saying, "Here is something that is cool. You are not that." which is terrible.

The core concept does not make it seem like you are working toward anything.

Since "fans" do not read the Comments

Originally posted by The Seraph of Tomorrow:

Originally posted by Bawkdragon:

Originally posted by kilo 40:

"To evolve and work toward thriving in the world"

The entire point is it's such a bleak world that no one can "thrive". how does someone miss the point so badly?

The most satisfying happy endings are the ones earned beating the grim dark. I would guess thriving is possible but that is pretty much the end game gotten after hundreds of game over, running around naked, hiding in the mud bleeding out and skipping tonights meals.

Well to some degree, but a vital theme of Grimdark is the idea that there is no happy ending. At best you accomplish a moments reprieve, or reveal that there is a even greater threat that makes your current power level seem like you are back to square one all over again.

Which is not bad, most stories do this when revealing new threats where your growth only ever prepared you for the next great threat. Which is what I would like to see in this game, but quite honestly would never expect because of what the game design premises seems to cling too, and the rabid fanboys who attack anything even remotely mentioning character growth, development, or evolution beyond just gun upgrades.

It's just infuriating that these people will not even consider that maybe, the world isn't black and white. There can be a best of both worlds. A lot of the fanboys are hearing me say character growth and autisticly jump to the idea I must be talking about becoming the Master Chief, Doomguy, CoD MC, or Gears of War Characters MC. When that has never been the case.

I like Grimdark settings because of the grim technology, weapons, armors, and other aesthetics of the setting. I love the aesthetic and setting. I want games that allow me to immerse myself in that sort of grim future where you have to make hard choices and choices that make you question your humanity to survive and thrive.

At the end of your story, what did you fight for and what did you become in order to survive is a fantastic premise that this game is completely ignoring. In fact, if you listen to a lot of the background lore, instead of being Grimdark, they are begin Grimderp (dark and edgy just for the sake of being dark and edgy.) Which is frustrating when the setting could be better, and not just edgy.

Since "fans" do not read the Discord

I am only asking for heavy / exo infantry tier being the "end game" meanwhile the devs in the Q&A said they are planning on allowing players to use mechs. So if you have an issue with the players being more than "This Guy," go talk to your -do no wrong- developers about that on the Discord.

[Doko]

I'm not sure what generation of games you were brought up with playing, but I for one have grown tired of games that treat you like gods, or the champion that is the only one who can save the game's world, like that honestly starts to grate on the mind, and if it hasn't for you, well I dunno man (I honestly want to be blunt, but I know it'll come off as incredibly rude).

Tech priests also weren't seen as gods, they were still regarded as those that maintain the machines.

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Originally posted by Doko:

I'm not sure what generation of games you were brought up with playing, but I for one have grown tired of games that treat you like gods, or the champion that is the only one who can save the game's world, like that honestly starts to grate on the mind, and if it hasn't for you, well I dunno man (I honestly want to be blunt, but I know it'll come off as incredibly rude).

Tech priests also weren't seen as gods, they were still regarded as those that maintain the machines.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

What I am asking for has nothing to do with being godlike, "To evolve and work toward thriving in the world" and instead has to do with having the option to progress to a point where you can be something more than just a survivor hanging on by a thread.

"Even if that means the enemies make you seem like "you are this guy" despite being so tricked out with salvaged armor and gear." So you can have the aesthetics of something mechanical and militaristic, even if that pales in comparison to what the enemy has.

Also, the machine+human hybrid idea is exactly what tech-priests are at their core. Even though they are not gods in the setting and die a little less quickly than other humans, they have also become more than merely human by integrating with machines.

That, and I am just really am not a fan of Sci-Fi setting that give you scrap-nomad aesthetics when there is incredible technology that is salvageable everywhere you look. It ends up begging the question of why can't I do X or Y.

[Doko]

Originally posted by The Seraph of Tomorrow:

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

What I am asking for has nothing to do with being godlike, "To evolve and work toward thriving in the world" and instead has to do with having the option to progress to a point where you can be something more than just a survivor hanging on by a thread.

"Even if that means the enemies make you seem like "you are this guy" despite being so tricked out with salvaged armor and gear." So you can have the aesthetics of something mechanical and militaristic, even if that pales in comparison to what the enemy has.

Also, the machine+human hybrid idea is exactly what tech-priests are at their core. Even though they are not gods in the setting and die a little less quickly than other humans, they have also become more than merely human by integrating with machines.

That, and I am just really am not a fan of Sci-Fi setting that give you scrap-nomad aesthetics when there is incredible technology that is salvageable everywhere you look. It ends up begging the question of why can't I do X or Y.

Yes but that implies "average joe", aka the "common worker", which isn't really anything in that regard, especially within that game's world setting, which leaves you with being the scavenger or being "that guy", and "that guy", is usually what we're mostly seen or played as in such games with gritty apocalyptic settings, which is why the devs chose the opposite route instead (they've basically gone against the grain).

Btw I used "godlike" as an example, but if you are wanting ultra specifics here, then that is not really the core part of this topic (and besides, within most if not a lot of games, players in the end do become godlike in the face of rather bog standard AI, especially with how meta driven our species has become over the past few decades).

Yes but tech priest at the end of the day serve to handle the machines and praise the omnesiah, not going out and being gun-ho like Ultra Marines or Grey Knights, neither of which scavenge as much as the priests do when it comes to finding old tech (the latter can salvage it, the former learns how to use it and have it in working order, which is not an Ultra Marine's job, that is the Tech priests job, which in turn is seen as a lowly job).

I get that you don't like Scifi, but Scifi is not driven by a strict code or flavour of design, and it's due to that nature that we have all sorts like Star Wars, Warhammer, Starcraft, Dune, and many more.

I think what you are ultra specifically looking for, is for this game, but you're simply a tech priest who's somehow allowed full autonomy to roam the wastelands and augment themselves to being something average or not average (though that doesn't make sense when you look at Adeptus Mechanicus lore).

Also, if you go by their trailer, it looks like possibly one of the bleakest worlds I've seen in gaming scifi, right next to 40k, and you know as well as I do that billions die in that universe, so it really shouldn't be any different here. If anything this game's world should prevent you from ever becoming something formidable, because it is so unforgiving (don't forget, apocalypse worlds don't have this thing called empathy or mercy).

[Decarien]

The store page says you're in the middle of a war between two military superpowers.

Ignore the politics and imagine if the US was evil, Russia was more competent, and they had been duking it out in the middle east for decades. No nukes, just a conventional meat grinder. You're not a soldier for them. You're not some rebel band getting guns and RPGs handed to them by Iran or China. You're a civilian caught in the crossfire, and they have long since stopped pretending they give a damn if you live or die. They probably started forcing people like you to be suicide bombers a while ago in fact.

There is no worrying about collateral casualties if their enemies are hiding in a hospital, they worry about how much the rocket they'd use to flatten it costs and if they should use a bio-weapon instead.

You are hopelessly, hilariously outgunned. You don't grab a soldier's armor, try to look like you are one, learn how to repair a tank, or steal a helicopter. That makes you a target, and targets get stomped.

Maybe you pick up a rifle and some ammo for self defense, take down a few drones or bandits and steal some supplies, but your goal is not to affect the course of the war. You keep your head down and generally stay out of the line of fire. Your ideal aesthetics are whatever makes you look like you're not worth wasting the munitions to wipe out. Your best hope is to survive long enough for the front to move away from your town or to be able to move away yourself.

Take that, add a coating of Scifi, and you have the general situation of the game. Why can't you do X and Y? Because X and Y get a cruise missile to the face.

[Desolator]

the thing is with such a scenario: either you die, or you'd adapt in a way that'd suit the environment you're in (brutal war). So yeah, I'd totally see the civvies that live in such an environment after 10+ years be militaristic machine men, because the environment *forces* them to be that way or perish.
The whole idea that you'd be in a decade old battlefield with no adaptation to reliably survive is nonsense, you'd have died out os a group in that place ages ago

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Originally posted by Desolator:

the thing is with such a scenario: either you die, or you'd adapt in a way that'd suit the environment you're in (brutal war). So yeah, I'd totally see the civvies that live in such an environment after 10+ years be militaristic machine men, because the environment *forces* them to be that way or perish.
The whole idea that you'd be in a decade old battlefield with no adaptation to reliably survive is nonsense, you'd have died out os a group in that place ages ago

That is partly my issue with the situation, while there are some reasonable arguments with not becoming a target. Well it seems in all the trailers you'll be a target either way by the bio-weapons and machines who see anything that isn't a friend as hostile.

[Yale]

Originally posted by Decarien:

Ignore the politics and imagine if the US was evil...

Imagine?

[Mu'Ammar of Carthus]

Originally posted by Decarien:

The store page says you're in the middle of a war between two military superpowers.

Ignore the politics and imagine if the US was evil,

I'd rather imagine being this naive in 2024 still.

[Crown]

The very notion of not being that guy is exactly what had me hooked on wanting this game.

[Chuck_Danksta]

Brother what threat are you going to be upgraded to? You're a nobody and even if you had that gear you still deal with massive units which make you a nobody. The idea of the game is solid and awesome, get with it or get on with it.

[thomashooperh]

It's a bold choice not to give players the power fantasy they are expecting, but it's the development team's game. They can make whatever they want.

[NeonBaron]

Originally posted by The Seraph of Tomorrow:

Well to be honest, that's exactly the kind of guy I'd want to be. Even if that means the enemies make you seem like "you are this guy" despite being so tricked out with salvaged armor and gear.

It's basically just saying, "here is something cool. You aren't that." which is a terrible way to try and get people to want to play the game.

Maybe it's just my tech-priest nature, but I'd certainly want to become a human + machine hybrid. To evolve and work toward thriving in the world, as the core concept doesn't make it seem like you are working toward anything of significance.

To each their own but the setup they give us absolutely captured my attention. So many games let us be powerful forces of nature but it is the games that make us feel weak that force us to think creatively and really get those "fight or flight" impulses going in our brain. This game doesn't want to be doom and it doesn't want to be tarkov. It is doing its own thing and I like that

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Originally posted by NeonBaron:

To each their own but the setup they give us absolutely captured my attention. So many games let us be powerful forces of nature but it is the games that make us feel weak that force us to think creatively and really get those "fight or flight" impulses going in our brain.

I don't disagree with the concept, I think it's fine to have the players caught in-between a greater conflict. Though if we are salvaging from soldiers, mechs, and cyborgs we shouldn't look like we crawled out of the dumpster. As much as that might increase our perceived threat level, I prefer rule of cool over trash / scrap aesthetics.

I wouldn't even call it rule of cool really, as scavengers would have no reason not to use scavenged gear. Else it wouldn't be worth scavenging in the first place.

[Doko]

Originally posted by The Seraph of Tomorrow:

Originally posted by NeonBaron:

To each their own but the setup they give us absolutely captured my attention. So many games let us be powerful forces of nature but it is the games that make us feel weak that force us to think creatively and really get those "fight or flight" impulses going in our brain.

I don't disagree with the concept, I think it's fine to have the players caught in-between a greater conflict. Though if we are salvaging from soldiers, mechs, and cyborgs we shouldn't look like we crawled out of the dumpster. As much as that might increase our perceived threat level, I prefer rule of cool over trash / scrap aesthetics.

I wouldn't even call it rule of cool really, as scavengers would have no reason not to use scavenged gear. Else it wouldn't be worth scavenging in the first place.

Even if you scavved parts, that doesn't automatically make you equal to the massive might of the machines waging the war in that world's universe, that's not how this works.

Look at MGS4 for a prime example, it's world was also run by AI, cited as "the war economy", and barely anyone had any control over that, even when Ocelot gained brief control over the AI's, he was still stopped, and the AI's had to be destroyed for humanity to come back to it's senses.

You are a lone scav in a world torn asunder, with barely any hope like the hope that was in MGS4, this world is too far gone for one scav to grab enough parts to even make a difference and that is THE POINT of this game.

You are small, you are weak, you will never come out on top, because the world doesn't care and machines run the show and they have no conscience to care what you do or what you think, which is why you will forever remain helpless.

This game was never designed for you to get stronger and for you to come out as some lone Jesus-like saviour or some big strong steampunk barbarian. You are a lone scav just trying to make ends meet.

For decades gamers have been far, far too used to being coddled and treated as some pariah in each gaming world, even Fallout/Elder Scrolls builds up to this and it's boring, too tame and less creative as a result. It's about time we had games where you are a nobody with no powers, with no means to twist the arm of the world behind it's back and you remaining at the top of the food chain.

If that's not your cuppa, then there's absolutely a metric ton of games where you get uber strong and come out as a victor each and every time, where life is super easy.

I've been searching for years for a game that's a bit doom and gloom, that isn't spammed into being a Souls-like (because that's all devs and gamers see these days, hard crushing worlds = has to be Dark Souls, and nothing else, which is why this game feels like a breath of fresh air.

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Originally posted by Doko:

snip

I stopped replying to you earlier because everything you are saying ignores the point of everything I am, and you are still doing it. Nothing I have ever said is about being able to fight against mechs, tanks, aircraft, and technological horrors on equal footing. You can't have horror elements in a setting if the player does not feel vulnerable. That's just horror writing 101, and I am well aware of that.

Read what people have to say instead of jumping to your own conclusion and running with that premise. You're lucky Steam moderation biases in favor of people like you so I can not actually say how you are acting, because there is nothing more annoying than a person who invents strawmen and puts words in your mouth.