Awesome game, but where are the frigates ?

[StarKnight]

Awesome game, but where are the frigates ?

I have the impression that the designers of 4X space games (or movies, novels ... etc.) don't know the hierarchy or order of the categories of spaceships, themselves stemming from the hierarchy (order) of the categories of current naval ships.

The increasing order of the ship types is relative to the size, tonnage (weight) and different equipment of the ship whose armament, and this hierarchy is this :

From the smallest / the weakest to the largest / most powerful :

( Reference models ! )

1) Corvette
2) FRIGATE : where are the frigates ???
3) Destroyer
4) Cruiser
5) Battleship

------------

6) Heavy carrier / cruiser carrier
7) Mother ship (carrier-ships)

In this hierarchy, variants may exist in this order: Light, Medium, Heavy Ships.
Examples: Light Corvette, Heavy Destroyer, Heavy Cruiser ... etc, etc.
And also : Battlecruiser, Missile Corvette / Frigate / Destroyer...etc, etc.

With this in mind, we can imagine that a heavy cruiser can also be a carrier-ships, like in Star Wars. (But this doesn't concern Stellaris).

[Chastity the Celibate]

Actually, this is the hierarchy I’ve made. I like it, unfortunately NSC2 mod is the closest thing we have to anywhere near this.

Some technically are subclasses, but I don’t care.

Naval Ships

Strikecraft
Bomber
Heavy Bomber
Fighter
Heavy Fighter
Interceptor
Gunship
Heavy Gunship

Sub-Capital Hull
Salvage Corvette
Minelayer Corvette
Light Corvette
Corvette
Heavy Corvette
Missile Corvette
Gunship Corvette
Flak Frigate
EWAR Frigate
Medical Frigate
Frigate
Boarding Frigate
Torpedo Frigate
Subtracer

Semi-Capital Hull
Light Destroyer
Destroyer
Missile Destroyer
Heavy Destroyer
Light Cruiser
Support Cruiser
EWAR Cruiser
Cruiser
Anti-Structure Cruiser
Heavy Cruiser
Battlecruiser
Drone Carrier

Capital Hull
Light Escort
Escort
Interdictor
Battleship
Light Carrier
Carrier
Assault Carrier
Battlecarrier
Heavy Carrier
Dreadnaught
Heavy Dreadnaught
Missile Dreadnaught

Super-Capital Hull
Supercarrier
Superdestroyer
Titan

Hyper-Capital Hull
Mothership
Leviathan
Colossus (Super-Platform)

[Chastity the Celibate]

I copy and pasted that, btw

[StarKnight]

@xnadu27 : Ah. Very good !

I mentioned heavy / capital ships, but I realize that I have forgotten light crafts, such as fighters, bombers ... etc.

[EleventhStar]

the IRL list has changed a lot over the years and today doesn't mean very much anymore.

so if the ingame lore went like IRL, frigates simply became obsolete or impractical. or are simply mislabeled.

[Emperor Zeltman]

apparently, paradox liked it to be

corvette
destroyer
cruiser
battleship
titan

and gave a ♥♥♥♥ about something stemming from made up stuff of the real world. i mean, whats next? people demanding TANKS for ground invasion forces? or airplanes?

its just the way it is.

[StarKnight]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

the IRL list has changed a lot over the years and today doesn't mean very much anymore.

so if the ingame lore went like IRL, frigates simply became obsolete or impractical. or are simply mislabeled.

Perhaps, but it remains a type of ship (frigate) that has existed since the sixteenth century and has continued until today (France for example has, even if they look more like corvettes of the 40s (USA or other).

And the first space games including Homeworld, novels and sci-fi movies (apart from Star Wars) have all adopted for the most part the hierarchy that existed in the navy (during the Second World War especially) from the 40s to the 80s of the twentieth century.

For example, HOI has applied this hierarchy in its game since it takes place during the Second World War.

[EleventhStar]

^^

hw2 gets off the hook for skipping cruisers, but stellaris is the bad boy?:P

[StarKnight]

Originally posted by Mr Misantroph:

apparently, paradox liked it to be

corvette
destroyer
cruiser
battleship
titan

and gave a ♥♥♥♥ about something stemming from made up stuff of the real world. i mean, whats next? people demanding TANKS for ground invasion forces? or airplanes?

its just the way it is.

No, I don't ask so much (although the futuristic tanks - ground troops - existed in Imperium Galactica 2).

I would have simply preferred that Paradox respects a broader hierarchy and commonly adopted and based on the hierarchy of ships of the 40s...

Whatever in Imperium Galactica had a fault too, the corvettes were above the frigates or destroyers, big mistake anyway !

[Chastity the Celibate]

Originally posted by StarKnight:

@xnadu27 : Ah. Very good !

I mentioned heavy / capital ships, but I realize that I have forgotten light crafts, such as fighters, bombers ... etc.

Each ship has strengths and weaknesses, and a specific role. I could tell you if you want.

[StarKnight]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

^^

hw2 gets off the hook for skipping cruisers, but stellaris is the bad boy?:P

Yes, a lot of games have had flaws in this sense, Stellaris is not just one of many that has not adopted the "classic" ship hierarchy. Many other developers have made mistakes, unfortunately.

I am passionate about military navy and science fiction so it bothers me when this "classic" hierarchy is not respected.

[StarKnight]

Originally posted by xnadu27:

Originally posted by StarKnight:

@xnadu27 : Ah. Very good !

I mentioned heavy / capital ships, but I realize that I have forgotten light crafts, such as fighters, bombers ... etc.

Each ship has strengths and weaknesses, and a specific role. I could tell you if you want.

Yes I know that. But these categories of ships are archetypes, reference models based on the size, tonnage, equipment and weapons of the ship, and the role too, it's true.

We can imagine that a heavy corvette can be more powerful or more adapted to a particular situation than a frigate or a light destroyer, but in absolute, it remains reference models, archetypes...

[Chastity the Celibate]

Originally posted by StarKnight:

Originally posted by xnadu27:

Each ship has strengths and weaknesses, and a specific role. I could tell you if you want.

Yes I know that. But these categories of ships are archetypes, reference models based on the size, tonnage, equipment and weapons of the ship, and the role too, it's true.

We can imagine that a heavy corvette can be more powerful or more adapted to a particular situation than a frigate or a light destroyer, but in absolute, it remains reference models, archetypes...

Exactly. I just didn’t want you thinking any of the classes (or archetypes, as you put it) were redundant.

[StarKnight]

I just want to say that my ship's hierarchy is based on ancient and recurring historical facts, from the small and large sailboats of the Middle Ages, and later especially from the 16th century, to the huge ships of line (still sailing) from the 18th and 19th centuries, and finally to the usual classification of modern ships of the 20th century (2nd World War) !

[EleventhStar]

yeah but like arent a lot of ships called frigates today way out of their historical tonnage range? and similarly in the sail age im sure the definition of frigate was different from steam and ww2 ages too and destroyers didnt even exist yet.

these definitions change to suit current needs and sometimes that means new ones get added or old ones dont fit anymore.

that aside from the rule of cool ofc.

[Chastity the Celibate]

I just made mine up to include all the terms, because I like words.