Stellaris

Stellaris

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Helicopter200 Jun 25, 2022 @ 12:55pm
Bio, Synth or Psionic?
Which one of these ascensions is best for lithoids?
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
HappySack (Banned) Jun 25, 2022 @ 1:08pm 
Doesn't matter, Synth is always the best if you're a min/maxer.

The others are for role-play but for Lithoids you don't really get that much benefit from bio ascension.
Zero Jun 25, 2022 @ 1:08pm 
Depends. Psionic can be gotten early and is a great pick for ease of getting if a spiritualist and provides some great bonuses (including building). Bio is not ever really considered the best, but i like to use it with clone army or Necrophage run (esp as lithoid). Let's you convert other pops you grow at a faster rate into your lithoid pop who is your specialist and lives a stupidly long time from the bonuses. If you go spiritualist and then go into biology and release a vassal and have that empire go spiritualist to it's conclusion you can have your race be psionic AND custom make your worker slaves and your primary race. Machine ascension is prolly the strongest at end game but takes a bit more to get to since it has so many required techs to get through while losing out on military techs (The thing that biological and psionics have going for them is all the stuff you need is in society which is a HUGE boon when you don't need to choose between military upgrades and robot upgrades early on). You can stack this with insane pop growth with Archologies everywhere if you stack entertainers for a few years midgame with the pleasure seekers perk. Somewhat less useful in the short term, but if you have 50+ entertainers with an upgraded gene clinics you can pick up some insane pops (1 per month for a few years). With the rabbit icon pop growth on a normal bio pop you can make an insane number of pops and if you REALLY wanna be funny about it grab a pop from the slave market, put it as the one to grow and just make a ♥♥♥♥ ton of them when making a ring world. Then spend some energy to move the slaves around the empire and set the entire race to purge. Congrats, you just managed to fill up 4 ringworld segments of people in a few years. Then you switch out the civic once your population is where it needs to be (Which completely negates the the whole lithoid slow growth thing) and laugh at all the unity you made alongside all the stupid pops (And the resources/diplo weight those pops give).

With clone armies who stick to the 100 pop cap can then become the rulers of the empire and then have a smaller race with rights to be leaders and then turn your worker bees into mind stapled chattal slaves for huge resources while having either a race with rights but preferably an indentured servant for a while if for nothing else but organization. Once your planets are organized how you want to you can remove nerve stapled, free your slaves and give them full rights and they'll be in the jobs you want them and your output will spike because of high happiness pops that are ultra specialized.

TLDR: Psionic is best early game, bio is best mid game and machine is best end game. But all of them do give good bonuses, and some empires will benefit far more from one than the other.

Last edited by Zero; Jun 25, 2022 @ 1:17pm
Zero's right, psionic's early game acquisition is great and it has no investment to get started. Bio has a more minor investment, society research, and requires next to nothing to get started otherwise. Synthetic has the best potential end-game, but only through some serious investment
CrUsHeR Jun 26, 2022 @ 3:21am 
Originally posted by HappySack:
Doesn't matter, Synth is always the best if you're a min/maxer.

The others are for role-play but for Lithoids you don't really get that much benefit from bio ascension.

It's not just the min-maxing, but the pop management of a single Synth species is so much more comfortable than the other 2 options.
Zero Jun 27, 2022 @ 12:32am 
Originally posted by CrUsHeR:
Originally posted by HappySack:
Doesn't matter, Synth is always the best if you're a min/maxer.

The others are for role-play but for Lithoids you don't really get that much benefit from bio ascension.

It's not just the min-maxing, but the pop management of a single Synth species is so much more comfortable than the other 2 options.

Agree on the single pop thing, but some empires manage very well with multiple species (Clone and Necrophage are good examples of this) where you can get some amazing bonuses and with the way you can stack pop growth mid game on ecuminopoli with pleasure seekers you can print massive stacks of unity because you grow all the pops and then do a mass purge of the species you put out. Less unity a turn than crats sure, but the necrophage can take become crisis and just purge 1 pop a month per planet to get unity and ruler pop. Each pop growth world i have will be pushing 80-90 pop growth per month without much issue and can even get into the mid 100's if you go full entertainer with art exhibit and luxury goods (compared to my best thrallworld which with same settings was only getting 14.4 pop gain per month. last game i ended up in an unmodded game with like 70m unity in the bank and all of the planets i had at rank 10 except for one which needed over 70m unity to level up because of how much unity that build makes when i'm purging my empire of pops for main pop (And to fix lag that starts happening about then). I also ended up filling four full ring worlds (2 i stole) with research build for all but one (Which did my entire empire's farming). That was a psychic run, btw and with that bonus a servile i bought on the slave market and a prole (who became battle thrall) that was on one of my 3 inhabited planets from start added to the psychic boost i was getting huge on all outputs. But again, that's a necrophage start which has stupidly good boosts to begin with.

Necrophage builds do have the bonus of slavery early on (Same with servile or some of the cool abilities you can get from primitives), which helps with the management and can add up to some significant boons.
Last edited by Zero; Jun 27, 2022 @ 12:53am
mss73055 Jun 27, 2022 @ 4:28am 
If you want the best of Lithoid do the necrophage bio-thing.
Necrophage is synthetic light.
Nihilist Acquisition is how you grow.
Tiasmoon Jun 27, 2022 @ 5:00am 
Bad synergy: Bio
Neutral: Psi
Good synergy: Synth

As noted by the doge, Lithoids dont get much from bio ascension. They cant apply 2 of the 3 unique supertraits. Altho it could still be used for any xenos if you plan on using a lot and cloning vats are still a thing. Bio has huge potential but requires large investment. In real time too, since you need to micromanage species more.

So do you plan on doing conquest or migration? Do you mind using a lot of xenos? If you dont getting xenos then bio can still be very good. But you will only be able to give Erudite to your lithoids, not the other 2 special traits.

Psi has the advantage of being low investment: only project is for the shroud. It takes just 1 tech option that doesnt require a tech path like bio or synth, but its a very rare tech.
Traits are the strongest out of the 3 ascension paths, and you get an extra 5 stability from psicorps. (but only on planets with 25+ pops)

This doesnt have any synergy or lack thereof with lithoids.

Its main downside is really that you can get the leader traits and species traits via other means. Granted it does require a good amount of investment to do that. If you have Psi-ascension all your leaders will retro-actively get the psionic leader traits.
Without the ascension that wont be the case, and you would have to replace all your existing leaders with new ones that have Psionic.

Synth scales the best with Lithoid unique trait. Cyborgs give even more habitability to your lithoids while synths will max it. Synths also remove the growth penalty inherent to lithoids.

If you dont want xenos, well this will make it so none is a xeno. Every species becomes your main species.
Tiasmoon Jun 27, 2022 @ 5:26am 
Personally I picked Bio most of the time, Psi rarely. Synth never. Didnt even ascend once untill my most recent game. Synths just arent interesting to me. If I wanted machines id start with a machine empire. I'd probably care more if there were more interesting machine portraits and a variety of species traits. :Tio:

Originally posted by Zero:
TLDR: Psionic is best early game, bio is best mid game and machine is best end game. But all of them do give good bonuses, and some empires will benefit far more from one than the other.

Problem with that is Psionic is usually obtained in mid game. At which point you could obtain the Psionic leader trait through other means. (especially when playing as Bio) Idk why they dont remove Psionic being a rare tech, or lower its tier.

And also why Synth dont have a -100% growth penalty on biological growth.
VoiD Jun 27, 2022 @ 5:29am 
Originally posted by Tiasmoon:
Personally I picked Bio most of the time, Psi rarely. Synth never. Didnt even ascend once untill my most recent game. Synths just arent interesting to me. If I wanted machines id start with a machine empire. I'd probably care more if there were more interesting machine portraits and a variety of species traits. :Tio:

Originally posted by Zero:
TLDR: Psionic is best early game, bio is best mid game and machine is best end game. But all of them do give good bonuses, and some empires will benefit far more from one than the other.

Problem with that is Psionic is usually obtained in mid game. At which point you could obtain the Psionic leader trait through other means. (especially when playing as Bio) Idk why they dont remove Psionic being a rare tech, or lower its tier.

And also why Synth dont have a -100% growth penalty on biological growth.
The new shroud origin can manage that, you can ascend pretty early skipping the rare tech and already starting with Latent Psionic, pretty great origin and a must pick for anyone going psionic.

But yeah, I agree, Synth is sooooooooooooo boring, I mean, it's great, no habitability penalties anywhere, great production bonuses, solves the Xeno issue, but it's so bland, there aren't any special mechanics related to this, it's just "Be productive"
Tiasmoon Jun 27, 2022 @ 5:43am 
Yeah and removes the identity of the species. Which can be great for xenos, but in case of main species (or any you get attached to during playthrough) it sucks.
Bio and Psi both keep the template but improve on it so they dont have that problem.

I think it would also be cooler if synths kept your original species portrait. To me it also doesnt really make sense that the synthetics wouldnt look similar to your original species.
jerrypocalypse Jun 27, 2022 @ 5:58am 
I've been using bio for my Lithoid runs and it's been working fine, and is a lot of fun. You can certainly argue that synth is better, but if you're playing standard difficulty, that doesn't matter much. I personally go for aesthetics, and gene-modding my Lithoids is a lot of fun.
jerrypocalypse Jun 27, 2022 @ 5:59am 
Originally posted by Tiasmoon:
Yeah and removes the identity of the species. Which can be great for xenos, but in case of main species (or any you get attached to during playthrough) it sucks.
Bio and Psi both keep the template but improve on it so they dont have that problem.

I think it would also be cooler if synths kept your original species portrait. To me it also doesnt really make sense that the synthetics wouldnt look similar to your original species.
I know it'd be extra work for the artists, but I kinda wish there was a "cybernetic" version of each if the existing biological portraits for when you go down the synth route. Add some "borg" bits to the portraits to show they're cyborgs/synths
Tiasmoon Jun 27, 2022 @ 6:09am 
Something like that is barely work. Now that you mention it I'm surprised they never did that in the first place.
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Date Posted: Jun 25, 2022 @ 12:55pm
Posts: 13