Stellaris

Stellaris

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[JdG] Pejman Nov 24, 2021 @ 3:48am
Can aquatic species really become spacefaring ???
I would guess one of the most important steps in the technological progress to become a civilization that could eventually leave a planet would be the mastery of fire which seems unlikely if you live underwater. Use of electricity seems also more complicated for underwater civilization.
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Showing 31-45 of 107 comments
The Devil Nov 24, 2021 @ 11:13am 
We're all space-faring if you consider the planet a ship, it is moving after all.
Last edited by The Devil; Nov 24, 2021 @ 11:13am
CBR JGWRR Nov 24, 2021 @ 11:34am 
Firstly, we have to define what these aquatics are like. Lets consider the wide variety of Earth's aquatic creatures as examples. My list after just ten seconds:

Fish
Mammal
Reptile
Amphibian
Mollusc
Coral
Bird

Needless to say, not exhaustive.

Best Candidate?

No question, it is the Space-Penguin. An idea so obvious it disappoints me that they aren't more common in Sci-Fi. Their difficulty level is barely any higher than our own if they hand hands like ours..

After Penguins, a Dolphin-like race that had hands instead of fore flippers would be a great option.

At the other end of the scale, a Coral-like race faces a challenge several orders of magnitude harder than either of them.

So, let's assume that "Aquatic" means that it cannot be air-breathing like Penguins or Dolphins, or just operate on land like Amphibians, that they have to stay in water, and if they leave water, it must at the absolute minimum require wearing the equivalent of scuba diving gear.

I propose - for the sake of the argument by virtue of being roughly in the middle of the spectrum - to consider Space-Sharks. High coolness factor, generally oceanic (although given the presence of freshwater sharks, this isn't a hard limit) very intelligent. I propose they are also in possession of actual grasping limbs on the fore fins, and that Space-Shark society has moved beyond individual/confrontational basis to a cooperative group structure.

Stone age technology is quite feasible for coastal Space-Shark ancestors. But, stone is just the first step - in order to achieve space, you really need to move a lot higher up the technology tree.

In Humans, the way we did it was we went from stone to easily worked materials like bone, wood and pottery to tin or copper to bronze to iron to steel to advanced ceramics and resin-fibres, and fuel turned from wood to coal to gas to nuclear.

It is obvious that the transition is easiest by going to land; while undersea mining isn't unreasonable, the smelting process would be made much more difficult, and would likely have to be done with the limited control and dangers of using volcanic heat.

Fortunately, our Space-Sharks, while hardly comfortable on land, would be able to adapt and travel on land on a stone/wood level of technology based on wheeled supramersibles, in much the same way as Space-Dolphins could, although with more difficulties.

Once on land, they would be able to progress in much the same way we did, just with adaptations to suit them. It would likely take longer.

If you want to - irrationally, in my view, given it is no different to us building subs - impose that they aren't allowed to develop means that allow them to go on land, then the challenges are higher, although not insurmountable; the logical step is to develop a water-tight building with hydrolocks for accessing, then pump air from the surface into the building to create an underwater air pocket that is sealed against water ingress and can therefore be used for developing technologies otherwise not possible in an oceanic environment.

The largest problem is that initial getting to space; the requirement to lift water necessary to survival makes rockets hundreds of times harder than they are for us. Fortunately, rockets aren't the only way to space, they were just the first way we tried that worked; we have numerous ways that we know are viable today. Therefore, they will likely seek to use alternatives to rockets such as Linear Induction Motor Launch Ramps or Orbital Ring hung elevators. (so should we, as both are more cost effective than rockets are)

Overall?

An aquatic race faces more challenges than ourselves undoubtedly, but to outright claim it is impossible is to state that you have neither imagination nor problem-solving. Think "ok, here is this problem, how can we overcome the problem" not "here's a problem, therefore it's impossible".
crgzero Nov 24, 2021 @ 11:42am 
Learn to distinguish fiction from reality.
Tiasmoon Nov 24, 2021 @ 11:43am 
Originally posted by crgzero:
Learn to distinguish fiction from reality.

What defines reality?
Jx Nov 24, 2021 @ 12:00pm 
Good Question ! :steamthumbsup::steamthis::steamthumbsup:
Miz Nov 24, 2021 @ 12:28pm 
Originally posted by Terijian:
I think an aquatic species biggest barrier to space travel would be having to transport water instead of air. Their thrusters would have to be exponetially better to achieve the same performance as an air breathing species

They would be able to also use that to increase the structural integrity of their ships too in a way, and upon hitting orbit the water on the outside of the ship would quickly either boil off or freeze giving them and extra 'shell' around the vessel to be fair, and, harvesting more 'atmosphere' in space would be substantially cheaper/easier as they'd only need to melt ice on meteorites/asteroids and not split the water molecules into their own component atoms to provide atmosphere
Chew Nov 24, 2021 @ 12:55pm 
They have submarine volcano or fire of Phosphrus. Maybe they are able to master tidal power generation before they master fire.
Drax Nov 24, 2021 @ 1:04pm 
Originally posted by crgzero:
Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

What defines reality?
Looky you trying in vain to be witty and smart.
Looky you trying in vain to be edgy.

Like, does it matter? People are just having fun with some nerdy sci-fi talk and theory. We're not planning to take over the country and use our superior knowledge of aquatic science to propel ourselves into a new era of technology....unless anybody else wants to?

Seriously though. Getting so offended over nothing. :captainclown:
Das Boot Nov 24, 2021 @ 1:09pm 
Geothermal vents can be used for metallurgy, smelting, and for fueling generators. Additionally some forms of sea life generate electricity naturally.
Tiasmoon Nov 24, 2021 @ 1:13pm 
Originally posted by crgzero:
Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

What defines reality?
Looky you trying in vain to be witty and smart.

I see you didnt even attempt to look smart.
alpharius Nov 24, 2021 @ 2:31pm 
There are creatures under water who emit electricity with their body on earth. And you think its a problem in sci fy? No words.

And you think there is no fire underwater.? Have you ever watched somebody trying to extingish burning light metals with water? And what about volcanism?
Celine Dijon Nov 24, 2021 @ 2:42pm 
There's a really neat book called "All Tomorrows" and it showcases a bleak future for humanity after reaching the stars. I won't spoil anything in case some of you would like to read it, but I'll attach a link to it. Go to page 68 to see how the author comes up with a hypothetical aquatic species. Page 69 has the illustration. (For the record I highly suggest reading the whole thing, it's fairly short but if you like bleak scifi then it's worth it.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByV5-S712cg8Tk1vQWVFZVM5S28/view?resourcekey=0-f0n8tTyFknuKmWvLl6gYFQ

EDIT: Pages 28-29 talk about the aquatic species before they gain intelligence, but that's not really relevant to the post overall if you're only concerned with the possibilities of aquatic species becoming spacefaring.
Last edited by Celine Dijon; Nov 24, 2021 @ 2:46pm
Stormwind Nov 24, 2021 @ 2:56pm 
My Aquatic civilization laughs in Spacefaring.
[JdG] Pejman Nov 24, 2021 @ 3:57pm 
Originally posted by alpharius:
There are creatures under water who emit electricity with their body on earth. And you think its a problem in sci fy? No words.

And you think there is no fire underwater.? Have you ever watched somebody trying to extingish burning light metals with water? And what about volcanism?


none of those solution offer any possibility to make a solid foundation for industry.

heck even stuff like projectiles aren't that great in water because of high water resistance it would be unlikely that even with the tech they would ever try to fling themselves into space.
unca.alby Nov 24, 2021 @ 4:17pm 
Nothing prevents underwater creatures from switching to land, where the air is dry and the fire burns nicely. Then just return to the water for mating rituals.

You don't necessarily have a planet with continents. You could have one with island chains, archipalagoes, small continents with many lakes and rivers, etc. So you don't have a problem where you need to evolve into something that never returns to the water.

It wouldn't be surprising on such a world that the dominant species returns to the sea to mate, maybe raise their young, where the winners get to spawn, and the winners are the fastest swimmers. Earth has plenty of species that are similar, if not quite that extreme.

And like every other evolutionary tactic, there will be cheaters ... so the race sometimes won't go to the fastest, but to the one that cheats the best. Those cheaters will likely be more intelligent, thus sending their smart genes to the next generation.

By and large, there is no predicting what evolution is going to do on exo-planets. We should not be surprised see all manners of strange things shooting at our landers. What should be surprising is to see any sort of intelligent species that looks like a human with strange growths on their foreheads.
Last edited by unca.alby; Nov 24, 2021 @ 4:24pm
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Date Posted: Nov 24, 2021 @ 3:48am
Posts: 107