Worst and Best Precursors

[Brittanian]

Any precursor you get at the start of a run and just quit? for me I hate getting the Irassians and the Yuht. Irassians are worse, but both give basically nothing compared to the baol (all gaia worlds), zroni (easy psyche path and tones of zro), first league (relic world) or cybrex (ring world). I kinda wish I could disable them as they have never proved useful, neither their relics or their home systems

[SkiRich]

Baol and Cybrex are my favorite.

[Brittanian]

Originally posted by SkiRich:

Baol and Cybrex are my favorite.

Personally I rate first league slightly higher since I can colonise the relic sooner than I can build the ring world, but I agree it is very good.

[Tiasmoon]

The Baol and the Cybrex are easily the best ones. First league is good, Zroni is alright if you arent going Psi and good if you are. The rest is ''well I guess ill be playing this game with a handicapt''

[CrUsHeR]

Let's say that i play Void Dwellers with the fixed idea to stay on the habitats, then i have an aggro neighbor, and i get the Baol, i would consider restarting. Just because this combo has nothing to offer, if you don't need the relic, the gaia world and the secret project. And aggro neighbors are bad enough on Grand Admiral.

But let's see what there is positive about the unpopular ones:



1) Yuht

+1 pop on new colonies is actually big. Found ten colonies, have 10 pops. On habitats with Expansion traditions, 1 pop will be unemployed, so he travels right back to another planet with jobs. Or he doesn't and can start working right away.
Machine empires even start with 4 pops in total.

Researching the project gives New Worlds expertise, so if you have a Genius-Biologist, and get the anomalies for Military and Statecraft, you can have all expertises in one genius.

Lastly the planetary decision adding permanent 10 habitability is also great, assuming there are pops growing in your empire who might only have secondary priority on a given planet (e.g. Tropical pops growing on a Continental world).


2) Vultaum

These are also really good, because the relic reduces pop amenities usage by 10%, and the secret project adds 10% amenities. As a result, you need a whole lot less pops working in amenities jobs, which directly translates into more people working in other jobs.

Computing expertise from the project isn't THAT great, because all the good stuff in the second half of the research tree is Particles. Energy weapons and Gateways specifically.
Of course if you already have a good Particle expert, then this is complementary.

Then there is the relic activation, which can give 40% ship weapons damage. This already saved the day more than once, because it allows you to safely win battles you might lose otherwise.


3) Irassians

+20 years leader lifespan. 20% biology research speed bonus. 5% pop growth speed.
Of course this is great, unless you are a machine empire or are close to synthetic ascension. Only reason why players don't appreciate leader lifespan, could be because they never checked the level bonuses of leaders.

Machines could use the pox bombardment stance because it kills all pops except mechanical ones, however i don't bombard but invade with armies. Or use the Colossus.

[Damedius]

That Cybrex relic is op and can win games for you by itself. I'm not sure if there is anything else in the same league.

[Tiasmoon]

In the past I found that Yuht's relic bonus comes at a point where most planets nearby are usually already colonized. I don't know if im just slow at completing it, or if that is closer to an average experience with precursors? At that point it has little usefullness.

The bonusses from the special projects. I tend to forget they exist, but some of them are quite good indeed. While amnetity happiness bonusses are pretty underwhelming, the penalties are not. That extra amnetity can be the difference between having to create amnetity jobs or spending the pops on something better.

For the Irassians, the 20 extra leader lifespan is something I would usually ignore since I tend to go for the other leader bonusses anyway. It can still create some extra breathing room. It is something I would consider a very good bonus if playing on higher tech costs, but less so on default.

The other Irassasian's are better then I remembered. I still wouldnt call them great, but with the special research and passives combined they arent useless as I called them before.

All in all, you made some good points on their merits. With the special projects it should be noted that it does require getting good rng with Archaelogy sites. Without enough minor relics they cant be researched.

[Danny]

Cybrex relic essentially grants all the alloys you need for your first few fleets.
And their armies are second to none and unlike other top tier armies, you can build an unlimited amount of them. Only downsides being long production time and upkeep cost.
The ring world is is also very powerful later on in the game.

Zroni makes going Psionic and exploring the Shroud MUCH more viable.
And all the free Zro REALLY boosts your economy in the early game.

Baol, free instant Gaia worlds AND 4 pops? Yes please!

[Brittanian]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Let's say that i play Void Dwellers with the fixed idea to stay on the habitats, then i have an aggro neighbor, and i get the Baol, i would consider restarting. Just because this combo has nothing to offer, if you don't need the relic, the gaia world and the secret project. And aggro neighbors are bad enough on Grand Admiral.

But let's see what there is positive about the unpopular ones:



1) Yuht

+1 pop on new colonies is actually big. Found ten colonies, have 10 pops. On habitats with Expansion traditions, 1 pop will be unemployed, so he travels right back to another planet with jobs. Or he doesn't and can start working right away.
Machine empires even start with 4 pops in total.

Researching the project gives New Worlds expertise, so if you have a Genius-Biologist, and get the anomalies for Military and Statecraft, you can have all expertises in one genius.

Lastly the planetary decision adding permanent 10 habitability is also great, assuming there are pops growing in your empire who might only have secondary priority on a given planet (e.g. Tropical pops growing on a Continental world).


2) Vultaum

These are also really good, because the relic reduces pop amenities usage by 10%, and the secret project adds 10% amenities. As a result, you need a whole lot less pops working in amenities jobs, which directly translates into more people working in other jobs.

Computing expertise from the project isn't THAT great, because all the good stuff in the second half of the research tree is Particles. Energy weapons and Gateways specifically.
Of course if you already have a good Particle expert, then this is complementary.

Then there is the relic activation, which can give 40% ship weapons damage. This already saved the day more than once, because it allows you to safely win battles you might lose otherwise.


3) Irassians

+20 years leader lifespan. 20% biology research speed bonus. 5% pop growth speed.
Of course this is great, unless you are a machine empire or are close to synthetic ascension. Only reason why players don't appreciate leader lifespan, could be because they never checked the level bonuses of leaders.

Machines could use the pox bombardment stance because it kills all pops except mechanical ones, however i don't bombard but invade with armies. Or use the Colossus.

You can still just occupy a low habitability world as void then instantly gaia it, giving free pops and a world you can use for any species. Plus, its essentially free.

also 20 years life is just like 3 repeatables, after i lose my first set of leaders the next rarely ever die.

Same with habitability, not long after i find precursor with repeatable tech the only sub 60 habitability worlds are ones that start the game with 20 percent.

I'm not saying it doesn't give bonuses, it sure does, they are just super dissapointing compared to the others.

[Tomoko]

I've never restarted a run because of this. Saying that, I only ever play multiplayer with friends so turning around and saying, "Hey guys, I got a thing I didn't like, let's start over" is a bit weird.

They rarely actually affect my game plan as a whole. Occasionally they do when it's, say, Baol, which totally change how I look at low habitability worlds. But generally speaking, if it's bad I just ignore it.

[CrUsHeR]

I'm not saying it doesn't give bonuses, it sure does, they are just super dissapointing compared to the others.

It is just one of the things you can't influence at all, and have to adapt.

You could play with the "Known Precursor" mod though, then you can pick what you want. I did that for a while. But i think it makes everything too easy and predictable.

also 20 years life is just like 3 repeatables

Could you describe the approximate era when you start researching leader lifespan repeatables, compared to when you usually get the precursor chain finished?

Most likely there are 1-2 generations of scientists passing in between. In particular after the 3.0 nerf, because you run into the pop softcap earlier but your leaders don't live longer.

[Brittanian]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

I'm not saying it doesn't give bonuses, it sure does, they are just super dissapointing compared to the others.

It is just one of the things you can't influence at all, and have to adapt.

You could play with the "Known Precursor" mod though, then you can pick what you want. I did that for a while. But i think it makes everything too easy and predictable.

also 20 years life is just like 3 repeatables

Could you describe the approximate era when you start researching leader lifespan repeatables, compared to when you usually get the precursor chain finished?

Most likely there are 1-2 generations of scientists passing in between. In particular after the 3.0 nerf, because you run into the pop softcap earlier but your leaders don't live longer.

In my most recent game, i finished precursor at 2253, and did my first habitability repeatable around 2260. Sometimes for example if you have baol or zroni you can finish it at 2223 or so but I haven't been lucky to get them in a while. I like rushing society tech out of the different branches so i usually end up with that tech first, i never get mega engineering for example till at least 2270 or so, but by then I will have multiple admin and leader repeatables done.

[Zorlond]

I'd say Baol is the best. It saves me an entire Ascension slot, and more than that, it's even better than Gaia terraforming in that it's instantaneous and adds pops. It's got a time delay, of course, but that's a fair trade for all the benefits.

Yuht is basically the worst. The extra pop doesn't help once you've colonized all you're going to, and the decision is useless on any planet with 100 habitability.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

also 20 years life is just like 3 repeatables

Could you describe the approximate era when you start researching leader lifespan repeatables, compared to when you usually get the precursor chain finished?

Most likely there are 1-2 generations of scientists passing in between. In particular after the 3.0 nerf, because you run into the pop softcap earlier but your leaders don't live longer.

Hmm. I ran into my scientists dying earlier then expected (aka at all) in my current game. I forgot to pay attention to age since I was too busy figuring out the new stuff.

Didnt consider that with the new balance in resource gains research will be effected in some way too. I usually try to keep my starting leaders alive so I'll have to pay attention to maintaining my research rates better then I did in this game.

If research gain is reduced enough then that would give additional value to that precursor bonus.

Originally posted by Brittanian:

In my most recent game, i finished precursor at 2253, and did my first habitability repeatable around 2260. Sometimes for example if you have baol or zroni you can finish it at 2223 or so but I haven't been lucky to get them in a while. I like rushing society tech out of the different branches so i usually end up with that tech first, i never get mega engineering for example till at least 2270 or so, but by then I will have multiple admin and leader repeatables done.

What settings, origin and or mods are you playing with? Those are way ahead of the expected dates to reach those techs.

[Brittanian]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Could you describe the approximate era when you start researching leader lifespan repeatables, compared to when you usually get the precursor chain finished?

Most likely there are 1-2 generations of scientists passing in between. In particular after the 3.0 nerf, because you run into the pop softcap earlier but your leaders don't live longer.

Hmm. I ran into my scientists dying earlier then expected (aka at all) in my current game. I forgot to pay attention to age since I was too busy figuring out the new stuff.

Didnt consider that with the new balance in resource gains research will be effected in some way too. I usually try to keep my starting leaders alive so I'll have to pay attention to maintaining my research rates better then I did in this game.

If research gain is reduced enough then that would give additional value to that precursor bonus.

Originally posted by Brittanian:

In my most recent game, i finished precursor at 2253, and did my first habitability repeatable around 2260. Sometimes for example if you have baol or zroni you can finish it at 2223 or so but I haven't been lucky to get them in a while. I like rushing society tech out of the different branches so i usually end up with that tech first, i never get mega engineering for example till at least 2270 or so, but by then I will have multiple admin and leader repeatables done.

What settings, origin and or mods are you playing with? Those are way ahead of the expected dates to reach those techs.

I play 1x texch, 5x primitive, 1x habitable, advanced starts x 5 and ai x 16 on large galaxy with max ai. midgame at 2250 and late game at 2325 (or thereabouts, cant remember exact date) no mods. I like habitat (less with current patch) and prosperous unification origin w democracy. Often use autocracy xenophobe. Usually rush ships and subjugate 3 or so empires as tributaries before tech rushing in order to float my energy and minerals

[Brittanian]

Scaling AI, that is.