Grand admiral gameplay

[Vert]

Hello!

I would like to ask some help/advice.
I was trying to win a scenario on Grand admiral (non-scaling) difficulty and I was utterly defeated.

My empire is usually a Authoritarian/Militarist/Xenophile, my playstyle is peaceful and defensive. So I don't rush and attack the other empires in the beginning (I don't even build military ships), I'm trying to build a strong economy (and don't want to use the market, I really would like to rely on my own economy) and not to use any tricky methods (and no mods). I have read a few guides which recommend that I focus on research, so I really tried, but the AI is much faster, so what I get after a few decades is that every empire is superior or overwhelming. Sadly, there is no chance to win a war against them or even to defend myself.

The Authoritarian ethic helps me to gain a bit more influence (I usually have influence between +4 and +6), and the Militarist ethic gives me a small bonus fire rate, but it is not enough. What I observed is that the AI focuses on building big fleet(s), so I don't stand a chance.

Thank you for any help.

[Mistfox]

The "superior" or "overwhelming" ratings don't mean much, in a real war, even "overwhelming" can find themselves on the losing end if you play strategically. Just ignore the ratings and do what you normally do.

[HappySack]

I don't think you should play on grand admiral if you don't know what you're doing or if you don't like to hurt yourself, you just need to play to your empire's strengths and counter what the AI designed for their fleets so their numbers don't mean much.

If you really did go xenophile then you should have made friends with your neighbours long enough for you to build up your strength and wipe them out if you decided to conquer them, not to mention by the time you get your third ascension perk you should be on on par with the AI because they don't know how to run their economy efficiently.

Teching up and using choke points to defend your territory (or when taking territory) is also vital.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

The "superior" or "overwhelming" ratings don't mean much, in a real war, even "overwhelming" can find themselves on the losing end if you play strategically. Just ignore the ratings and do what you normally do.

Just some tricks and tips.

Anchorages > Gun/Missile batteries for the simple reason that you can move ships but can't move bases, so a base on a quiet chokepoint can contribute ships/firepower to one on a more threatened front. It can add up.

Observatories are more useful than they seem, they can give you a sneak peak into your enemy's ship builds and let you build counters to them early so a border fortress might be a useful place for one.

Specialize. Generalist ships tend to be master of none. Same with planets.

If you are losing, find a chokepoint with uttterly crappy local conditions like shield nullification and build an all armor fleet with all anti-armor weapons, that can help since it negates any shield tech advantage and wastes any slots the enemy used in fitting them, not to mention wastes their shield defeating weapon damage bonus.

[Pak0tac]

Meh the game on grand admiral difficulty is a pain.
You have to constantly macro your fleet, splitting it or binding split groups together, use small strike groups on low defence systems, and then binding them together when the enemy fleet comes to get you, or you have to constantly retreat to a starbase for its protection and damage. Its annoying that the AI knows exactly how much fleet power you have and where it is, and as soon as you move your fleet out, the AI comes in rolling with some 300 stranght fleet and takes it from you :\

Also your war weariness penalty is so bad that any war ends with you hitting the cap long before the AI, and you end up with just 3 out of the 20 systems that you conquered :p

[randomuser1123456789]

Winning Grand Admiral with no scaling heavily relies on rng and empire creation. If you have bad rng and don't min-max you've pratcically lost.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by -=Audacious=-:

Its annoying that the AI knows exactly how much fleet power you have and where it is, and as soon as you move your fleet out, the AI comes in rolling with some 300 stranght fleet and takes it from you :\

That can actually be a benefit lol. I remember luring an enemy fleet out like that then having another fleet cut in behind them to trap them in my territory. Their reinforcements got butchered while their main fleet got cut up in hit and run raids.

Sometimes predictable AI is a good thing for your side.

I'm more worried about her ethos choices. Militaristic needs wars while xenophile is a peaceful playstyle so there is already a basic contradiction in her empire that will generate faction unhappiness just by existing.

[randomuser1123456789]

Originally posted by Ryika:

Originally posted by Lady Vert 💗:

so what I get after a few decades is that every empire is superior or overwhelming. Sadly, there is no chance to win a war against them or even to defend myself.

Play a few more decades, and you may very well have caught up if you're playing efficiently enough. The AI has a huge headstart on GA, but starts to fall apart the moment advanced resources are introduced.

Of course that depends heavily on the size of your territory. Can't really sit on 3 planets and still expect to be competitive with an AI that's 10 times your size and gets yield bonuses.

This, find an ally to attack the ai if you can't build a big enough fleet.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by -=Audacious=-:

Meh the game on grand admiral difficulty is a pain.
You have to constantly macro your fleet, splitting it or binding split groups together, use small strike groups on low defence systems, and then binding them together when the enemy fleet comes to get you, or you have to constantly retreat to a starbase for its protection and damage. Its annoying that the AI knows exactly how much fleet power you have and where it is, and as soon as you move your fleet out, the AI comes in rolling with some 300 stranght fleet and takes it from you :\

Also your war weariness penalty is so bad that any war ends with you hitting the cap long before the AI, and you end up with just 3 out of the 20 systems that you conquered :p

If you have to do all of that then Grand Admiral is beyond your (current) skill/experience level. The AI doesnt actually cheat in that respect and can't see your fleets outside of their sensor range.

Ofcourse if their sensor range is equal or superior to yours it might feel that way.

War weariness penalty is for the offensive side, not the AI specifically. If you want to have an easier time with that: provoke them into declaring on you instead of doing it to them.

Originally posted by Lady Vert 💗:

Hello!

I would like to ask some help/advice.
I was trying to win a scenario on

If you are playing peacefully then creating a Federation is no1 on your priorities. The Federation fleet has its own fleetcap, and doesnt cost any upkeep so its easier on your energy. Plus the partner empires will also build ships for the fleet. Federations come with their own ship creator specifically for federation fleets.

To do that you will have to take the Diplomacy (or what its called) Tradition and the Federation perk inside of it. You will need to send envoys and sign treaties with more friendly empires to get their relationship and opinion up so they will join a Federation with you.

The downsides of a federation tend to be minor compared to the power of having a federation fleet: 5% of total energy income per month is lost as tax to the federation. The fleet is controlled by the President, so you will want to ensure you have control over the federation if you want to use the fleet yourself.

I dont know if you have the DLC. If you dont, you will wont have access to all the federation laws.

The Militarist Ethic is not very good untill you have more advanced knowledge on empire builds. +10% firing rate really isnt much. 0.5 influence from Authoritarian or another Envoy from Xenophile will help more. Alternatively +5% research and easier access to robots from Materialist.

[randomuser1123456789]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Originally posted by -=Audacious=-:

Meh the game on grand admiral difficulty is a pain.
You have to constantly macro your fleet, splitting it or binding split groups together, use small strike groups on low defence systems, and then binding them together when the enemy fleet comes to get you, or you have to constantly retreat to a starbase for its protection and damage. Its annoying that the AI knows exactly how much fleet power you have and where it is, and as soon as you move your fleet out, the AI comes in rolling with some 300 stranght fleet and takes it from you :\

Also your war weariness penalty is so bad that any war ends with you hitting the cap long before the AI, and you end up with just 3 out of the 20 systems that you conquered :p

If you have to do all of that then Grand Admiral is beyond your (current) skill/experience level. The AI doesnt actually cheat in that respect and can't see your fleets outside of their sensor range.

Ofcourse if their sensor range is equal or superior to yours it might feel that way.

War weariness penalty is for the offensive side, not the AI specifically. If you want to have an easier time with that: provoke them into declaring on you instead of doing it to them.

Originally posted by Lady Vert 💗:

Hello!

I would like to ask some help/advice.
I was trying to win a scenario on

If you are playing peacefully then creating a Federation is no1 on your priorities. The Federation fleet has its own fleetcap, and doesnt cost any upkeep so its easier on your energy. Plus the partner empires will also build ships for the fleet. Federations come with their own ship creator specifically for federation fleets.

To do that you will have to take the Diplomacy (or what its called) Tradition and the Federation perk inside of it. You will need to send envoys and sign treaties with more friendly empires to get their relationship and opinion up so they will join a Federation with you.

The downsides of a federation tend to be minor compared to the power of having a federation fleet: 5% of total energy income per month is lost as tax to the federation. The fleet is controlled by the President, so you will want to ensure you have control over the federation if you want to use the fleet yourself.

I dont know if you have the DLC. If you dont, you will wont have access to all the federation laws.

The Militarist Ethic is not very good untill you have more advanced knowledge on empire builds. +10% firing rate really isnt much. 0.5 influence from Authoritarian or another Envoy from Xenophile will help more. Alternatively +5% research and easier access to robots from Materialist.

Federation fleet is usually a waste of leet cap as it caps at 600 at max.

[Tiasmoon]

A single fleet of 600 fleetpower. That's 600 corvettes or 75 battleships.

That you can have at a point in time where your combined fleet power on your own isnt even at 600.

That allows you up to 4 extra titans, 1 extra juggernaut.

That costs no resources to upkeep, and saves you a ton of EC and Alloys per month.

That your allies create ships for, saving you thousands or ten thousands of Alloys.

That alloys you to use tech you dont have to outfit your ships (because your allies have them)

If you call it a waste of fleetcap then you havent used them much!

[randomuser1123456789]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

A single fleet of 600 fleetpower. That's 600 corvettes or 75 battleships.

That you can have at a point in time where your combined fleet power on your own isnt even at 600.

That allows you up to 4 extra titans, 1 extra juggernaut.

That costs no resources to upkeep, and saves you a ton of EC and Alloys per month.

That your allies create ships for, saving you thousands or ten thousands of Alloys.

That alloys you to use tech you dont have to outfit your ships (because your allies have them)

If you call it a waste of fleetcap then you havent used them much!

The federation fleet law also takes away 30% of your fleet cap.

Which by the endgame should be more than the 600 you gain.

For the technology part of your arguement, in most of my games I always outpace the ai in tech by a longshot when the fed fleet becomes relevant so there's no impact.

For the cost part, the amount of alloys you lose to fleet upkeep is so small that its not worth it lose some fleet cap.

Even if you play tall with few anchorages fortress habitats can generate lots of fleet cap.

By the late midgame, lategame and endgame influence lags behind alloys so the extra alloys you gain by not paying for some of the federation fleet dosen't really do anything.

You can't build habitats or megastructures with it.

While the extra naval cap allows you to build more ships and have less upkeep penalty when you go over naval cap.

In the Stellaris endgame upkeep efficiency for ships is less important than more naval power.

[Colonizor48]

Rush strike craft cruisers.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

If you have to do all of that then Grand Admiral is beyond your (current) skill/experience level. The AI doesnt actually cheat in that respect and can't see your fleets outside of their sensor range.

I'm not sure if they changed it but my experience differs. You could see enemy fleet orders in the past if you had "eyes on" their fleet and I've seen the AI tag an attack on a fleet that by all rights he would have had no eyes on (being at my capital) all the way from inside his territory.

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Originally posted by Lady Vert 💗:

My empire is usually a Authoritarian/Militarist/Xenophile, my playstyle is peaceful and defensive. So I don't rush and attack the other empires in the beginning (I don't even build military ships)... the Militarist ethic gives me a small bonus fire rate, but it is not enough.

IMO, kind of a waste to use militarist for peaceful playstyle. But do what you want - it's irrelevant anyway.

Originally posted by Lady Vert 💗:

I have read a few guides which recommend that I focus on research, so I really tried, but the AI is much faster, so what I get after a few decades is that every empire is superior or overwhelming. Sadly, there is no chance to win a war against them or even to defend myself.

It's all about focusing on research, while AI does not and spends resources all over the place. It won't attack: you having no military forces AI to guarantee your independence, so theoretical fleetpower becomes way more than AI can handle. As result, you can safely build up your economy/research, while leaving AI in the dust (eventually).

Can't say it's less "tricky" than other methods (after all, it relies purely on faulty AI diplomacy logic)... then again: AI is so inept that you playing the game might be considered "tricky".

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

If you have to do all of that then Grand Admiral is beyond your (current) skill/experience level. The AI doesnt actually cheat in that respect and can't see your fleets outside of their sensor range.

I'm not sure if they changed it but my experience differs. You could see enemy fleet orders in the past if you had "eyes on" their fleet and I've seen the AI tag an attack on a fleet that by all rights he would have had no eyes on (being at my capital) all the way from inside his territory.

I always prioritise sensors so mine tend to be a few levels higher then my enemies. They won't alter course unless my ships jump into their sensor range. Even in my current game I've won some very easy victories as a result.

I dont know if it was always like that tho. Maybe they changed it sometimes before 2.7