How 2 pure communism?

[Koss_Tea]

Before I start this topic, I ask you to restrain yourself from political argument ("communsim gud", "communism bad", etc). I just want suggestions about making communist "empire" closest to original idea of it, I'm not following actual politics. Be reasonable

So, I like how Stellaris portrayed Communism the way it meant to be originally. Utopic society of absolute equality and stuff. And I wonder... How exactly could I build my nation to be closest to original communism, before it was changed by subsequent party leaders, and those who earned reputation of tyrants?

Any suggestion is welcome

[VoiD]

1) Any genocidal Hivemind
2) Start producing a lot of alloys, deplete the farms or stack -food bonuses
3) Create a Hegemony and start "inviting" the entire galaxy

[Cryten]

Depends on your definition I guess. Either Shared burdens or stratified economy. Or a simple egalitarian / authoritarian government. If I was personally going to do it I would go with a authoritarian government who does not use slaves, with miltarism and materialist. Use stratified economy as a living standard and go with meritocracy, police state, nationalistic zeal or byzantine buerocracy as civics. I would probably drop nationistic zeal because it kinda applys to any historical government and its not that good either. Either hedgemony or the basic start for origins.

[Koss_Tea]

Originally posted by Cryten:

Depends on your definition I guess. Either Shared burdens or stratified economy. Or a simple egalitarian / authoritarian government. If I was personally going to do it I would go with a authoritarian government who does not use slaves, with miltarism and materialist. Use stratified economy as a living standard and go with meritocracy, police state, nationalistic zeal or byzantine buerocracy as civics. I would probably drop nationistic zeal because it kinda applys to any historical government and its not that good either. Either hedgemony or the basic start for origins.

This more applies to what communism became because of party leaders known as tyrants, such as Stalin and Mao. Corrupted one, If you will.

But, according to history, originally Communism meant to be quite opposite. Impossible utopia of absolute equality. Egalitarism is known as triumph of Communism. But again, this is what many people tell, whenever it's true or not is a subject of argument till this very day.

I found interesting that devs portrayed Communism in it's original idea and that's what I want to develop further, I'd like suggestions about "primal" communism

Still, your idea of Communism in it's current meaning is interesting and noted

[Cryten]

I did say it depends on how you define communism and offered a living standard civic that fits with the ideal instead of historical record. And you are the one who wanted to remove politics from the discussion. As such I offered both history and ideal as alternatives.

[Koss_Tea]

Originally posted by Cryten:

I did say it depends on how you define communism and offered a living standard civic that fits with the ideal instead of historical record. And you are the one who wanted to remove politics from the discussion. As such I offered both history and ideal as alternatives.

Do you mind to continue this in DM by adding me? If you trying to keep your friendlist clean you can delete me from it after discussion

[Garatgh Deloi]

I don't have much insight into the "original communist idea", but if its all about equality then start of with "Shared Burden" living standard and aim for "Utopian Abundance" later on. In both cases the living standards for all your pops (be they worker, specialist or ruler) is the same.

[Koss_Tea]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

I don't have much insight into the "original communist idea", but if its all about equality then start of with "Shared Burden" living standard and aim for "Utopian Abundance" later on. In both cases the living standards for all your pops (be they worker, specialist or ruler) is the same.

good idea, I'll listen some more and if nothing better will be, I'll choose it as answer

[Heimdall313]

Originally posted by Zargon ϟ:

By being liberal, why?

this

[Azunai]

you need fanatic egalitarian for shared burden, which leaves 1 ethics slot. i'd go with xenophile probably. internationalism was always a big deal for the communists.

species traits could be used as a roleplay explanation why that idealistic utopia works for your stellaris civ even though it failed for all human societies that tried it. ie. make them intelligent and communal for example. or maybe conformist and docile as an alternative, less idealistic explanation :)

[Zorlond]

I'm not confident I could detail an 'actually communist' empire in vanilla, but if you're willing to use a mod, try this one:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1100284147

With this loaded, you get an extra two points in Ethics and one more Civic (plus one more via Ascendency for 4 max). So, I'd recommend

- Socialistic Ideals (+1 housing and job from non-city districts for +15% upkeep, obligated public healthcare and education policies, Labour Hero job per 20 pop that makes basic resources and unity, obligated Social Equality living standards, +10% pop growth, +5% social research, instant pop demotion)
- Ascended Meritocracy (+1 leader cap, +10% specialist output)
- Harmonius Collective (+10% unity, -15% sprawl from pops, -20% crime)

which would require Fanatic Pluralism (more leaders for higher initial cost but less upkeep, -40% crime), Fanatic Cooperative (+10% worker happiness, -20% housing usage, +10% society research, -10% trade value), and Spiritualist (+10% Unity, +10% ethics attraction, -10% ameniies usage), on top of Indirect Democracy (-20% edict cost).

I've tried playing this kind of empire before, and the biggest problem I always had was I was flat broke the entire time. So little energy, so poor trade, I couldn't use the market much to move resources around without driving prices too high to make it worth it. If I needed alloys, I had to make them myself, not buy them. The entire set of resources was like that, resulting in needing overproduction in all areas just to cover day-to-day operations.

It's a nice idea, but becomes so inflexible in practice it just can't adapt very well.

[Koss_Tea]

Originally posted by Azunai:

you need fanatic egalitarian for shared burden, which leaves 1 ethics slot. i'd go with xenophile probably. internationalism was always a big deal for the communists.

species traits could be used as a roleplay explanation why that idealistic utopia works for your stellaris civ even though it failed for all human societies that tried it. ie. make them intelligent and communal for example. or maybe conformist and docile as an alternative, less idealistic explanation :)

Originally posted by Zorlond:

I'm not confident I could detail an 'actually communist' empire in vanilla, but if you're willing to use a mod, try this one:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1100284147

With this loaded, you get an extra two points in Ethics and one more Civic (plus one more via Ascendency for 4 max). So, I'd recommend

- Socialistic Ideals (+1 housing and job from non-city districts for +15% upkeep, obligated public healthcare and education policies, Labour Hero job per 20 pop that makes basic resources and unity, obligated Social Equality living standards, +10% pop growth, +5% social research, instant pop demotion)
- Ascended Meritocracy (+1 leader cap, +10% specialist output)
- Harmonius Collective (+10% unity, -15% sprawl from pops, -20% crime)

which would require Fanatic Pluralism (more leaders for higher initial cost but less upkeep, -40% crime), Fanatic Cooperative (+10% worker happiness, -20% housing usage, +10% society research, -10% trade value), and Spiritualist (+10% Unity, +10% ethics attraction, -10% ameniies usage), on top of Indirect Democracy (-20% edict cost).

I've tried playing this kind of empire before, and the biggest problem I always had was I was flat broke the entire time. So little energy, so poor trade, I couldn't use the market much to move resources around without driving prices too high to make it worth it. If I needed alloys, I had to make them myself, not buy them. The entire set of resources was like that, resulting in needing overproduction in all areas just to cover day-to-day operations.

It's a nice idea, but becomes so inflexible in practice it just can't adapt very well.

Great that you understood my idea and your suggestions are absolutely welcome. Yes, multiculturalism was one of biggest strenghts of Soviet Union. All different, yet united under single cause. And this mod will be checked out asap

[Thrillho]

Libertarian Socialist (communist) here, I would say that the most ideologically accurate portrayal of communist values is probably fanatic egalitarianism, materialism. (Marxist thought is often called dialectic materialism) Communism is concerned principally with what are called the material conditions, that is promoting an increase in living standards not with more esoteric ideas of freedom or spirituality. For origins Mechanist, planetary unification, would both be consistent. Restrict wars to liberation wars, Try to ensure full employment, vote for worker rights tree in the council. Shared burdens + any one of Idealistic foundation, meritocracy, parliamentary system, functional architecture, diplo corps. Pdx does have a few vocal communists working at the studio which is partly how Shared Burdens got into Stellaris in the first place, they did a decent job of portraying what we think in so far as the broad strokes mechanics of the games can do that.

If you want to recreate the USSR historically go Auth, Militarist and materialist.

[Koss_Tea]

Originally posted by Thrillho:

Libertarian Socialist (communist) here, I would say that the most ideologically accurate portrayal of communist values is probably fanatic egalitarianism, materialism. (Marxist thought is often called dialectic materialism) Communism is concerned principally with what are called the material conditions, that is promoting an increase in living standards not with more esoteric ideas of freedom or spirituality. For origins Mechanist, planetary unification, would both be consistent. Restrict wars to liberation wars, Try to ensure full employment, vote for worker rights tree in the council. Shared burdens + any one of Idealistic foundation, meritocracy, parliamentary system, functional architecture, diplo corps. Pdx does have a few vocal communists working at the studio which is partly how Shared Burdens got into Stellaris in the first place, they did a decent job of portraying what we think in so far as the broad strokes mechanics of the games can do that.

If you want to recreate the USSR historically go Auth, Militarist and materialist.

I guess I need a mod that increases ideology points since materialism is correct as well. "Scientific atheism" was one of the pillars of Socialism.

Also it gives me an idea to create multiple Communist factions since Communism is pretty much diverse, as well as any other ideology. Liberalism, Republicanism... Afaik even Nationalism branches not all extreme

[Koss_Tea]

I guess we can't ignore politics completly since Stellaris has literally heavy politics system. But I appreciate you all keeping this civil :) Your suggestions are really inspiring

[frowningmirror]

Utopian Abundance is communism if you do it to all species. It would be the closest analogue to anarchism, or a successful scifi communism utopia. You'll need a distribution network so set your economic policy to consumer goods.

The Shared Burden is to mimic the Marxists and their transitional "worker states". I think the idea was that it lowers consumer goods so you can produce more alloys to counter imperialism (militarist) or robots (materialism) for fully automated space communism.

For the USSR, I'd do some mix of egalitarian and miltarist but no shared burdens, just the communist advisor voice. Take police state. Set Living Standard to social welfare. Get a statescraft scientist for penal colonies. Now, pretend you're making the US but with slightly less police.