What are materialist ideals ?

[Ragnaman]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1595156530

[Azunai]

just means that you can only pick academic privilege if you have materialist (or fanatic materialist) as government ethos.

same way you have to be egalitarian to use utopian abundance and (i think) authoriarian for stratified economy

[Sabaithal]

Well in real life, materialism is so much an ideal, so much as a spectrum. Its a spectrum of materialism vs idealism, with spiritualism falling on the idealist part of the spectrum.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Ragnaman:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Well in real life, materialism is so much an ideal, so much as a spectrum. Its a spectrum of materialism vs idealism, with spiritualism falling on the idealist part of the spectrum.

?

Well you asked...

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Ragnaman:

Well, but i am of materialist gov type, that is why im asking what am I missing, what are materialist ideals ?

Having the Intelligent trait on your pops is not enough to qualify. Can you post a screenshot of your empire window (click your empire icon in the upper-left corner of the screen to open, select the first tab at the bottom of the window if it is not already selected).

Originally posted by Ragnaman:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Well in real life, materialism is so much an ideal, so much as a spectrum. Its a spectrum of materialism vs idealism, with spiritualism falling on the idealist part of the spectrum.

?

Sometimes people try to interject their opinions about the real world into discussions about game mechanics. This response does not have any bearing on your situation, and can safely be ignored.

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by Ragnaman:

Well, but i am of materialist gov type, that is why im asking what am I missing, what are materialist ideals ?

Like in real life. Materialists is the paragon of capitalism where the mass work to sustain the privileges of a handfull of people. Only thing that matters is how you can profit of a situation.

The effects of academic privileges explain this pretty well :
- your rulers gain happiness and will weight way more in factions (cause all work for them but they are ultimately the only ones to take decisions)
- your specialists gains happiness and will have some weight in factions

all the others are trash, given only the bare minimum to survive and without any weight on anything, no matter how discontent they are.

You should not have any difficulties to understand as nearly all occidental countries in real life are materialist to a point or another.

[Azunai]

Originally posted by Ragnaman:

Originally posted by Azunai:

just means that you can only pick academic privilege if you have materialist (or fanatic materialist) as government ethos.

same way you have to be egalitarian to use utopian abundance and (i think) authoriarian for stratified economy

Well, but i am of materialist gov type, that is why im asking what am I missing, what are materialist ideals ?

based on that screenshot you seem to be egalitarian (or maybe fanatic egalitarian) since you can pick utopian abundance. don't know why academic privilege is greyed out when you are actually materialist.

materialist ethos is supposed to be the condition for it

[Ragnaman]

Nevermind, i figured out that I modified my nation and forgot about it, gg.

[Fuinril]

Just for information there's one case where you can be materialist and can not select academic privilege if you picked the shared burden ethic

[tomasoltis]

materialists seem to be drawn to power. Technocrats are elitists, so pretty much wannabe scientists/fake scientists together. As in info is power, they dont share.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by tomasoltis:

materialists seem to be drawn to power. Technocrats are elitists, so pretty much wannabe scientists/fake scientists together. As in info is power, they dont share.

Originally posted by Fuinril:

Like in real life. Materialists is the paragon of capitalism where the mass work to sustain the privileges of a handfull of people. Only thing that matters is how you can profit of a situation.

That's not quite how Stellaris uses the term, in common usage, yes "materialism" is "consumerism" but in Stellaris, it's more used along the lines of "rationalist" vs "spiritualists" i.e people that are "logical" and "rational" vs "religious" or "spiritual"

Think Star Trek Vulcan vs Babylon 5 Minbari.

[Apeironic_Entelechy]

Originally posted by Fuinril:

Originally posted by Ragnaman:

Well, but i am of materialist gov type, that is why im asking what am I missing, what are materialist ideals ?

Like in real life. Materialists is the paragon of capitalism where the mass work to sustain the privileges of a handfull of people. Only thing that matters is how you can profit of a situation.

The effects of academic privileges explain this pretty well :
- your rulers gain happiness and will weight way more in factions (cause all work for them but they are ultimately the only ones to take decisions)
- your specialists gains happiness and will have some weight in factions

all the others are trash, given only the bare minimum to survive and without any weight on anything, no matter how discontent they are.

You should not have any difficulties to understand as nearly all occidental countries in real life are materialist to a point or another.

This is completely wrong, materialism in Stellaris is the philosophical version [en.wikipedia.org] which posits that matter is the fundamental substance in nature and thus rejects immaterial things like spirits or supernatural phenomenon.

The ethic has absolutely nothing to do with economic materialism, which would be obvious if you read the descriptions and looked at the boni. Honestly, I don't know why people keep on saying this :/

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by Fourthspartan56:

This is completely wrong, materialism in Stellaris is the philosophical version [en.wikipedia.org] which posits that matter is the fundamental substance in nature and thus rejects immaterial things like spirits or supernatural phenomenon.

The ethic has absolutely nothing to do with economic materialism, which would be obvious if you read the descriptions and looked at the boni. Honestly, I don't know why people keep on saying this :/

Yes, yes I did read the tooltip description too. Now please take a deeper look at the actual effects of materialist ethics....

So what do we have :
- cannot forbid robots, which make sense from pholisophical and economical point of view. Plus it's not even a constraint as you'll just have to not reseearch the tech.
- bonuses on robot upkeep. I'm pretty sure it'as all about economic...
- faster research : could be ok for both version
- academic education : economical only. Does not make any sense philosophicaly speaking

After that you deceide how you would play your empire, depending on your RP and the other ethics you choose. But appart from being opposed to spiritualist there's nothing about philosophy in materialist gameplay.

BTW you are able to play as materialist/egalitarist but it does not play out very well (first thing, the huge bonus from academic education is disabled...) but if you choose authoritarian instead you end up with a very powerful combination.

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by Fuinril:

So what do we have :
- cannot forbid robots, which make sense from pholisophical and economical point of view. Plus it's not even a constraint as you'll just have to not reseearch the tech.
- bonuses on robot upkeep. I'm pretty sure it'as all about economic...
- faster research : could be ok for both version
- academic education : economical only. Does not make any sense philosophicaly speaking

1. No argument, it can be used either way.
2. Knowing how to build better robots does not necessarily mean you do it for an economic reason. Once again, this can go either way.
3. Faster research is definately not economic. Economic research is about improving existing ideas, not pioneering new ideas. Businesses want to innovate within their realm, not develop new ones for the most part as that creates new competition for them.
4. It's called "Academic Priviledge" and is about respecting those who learn over those who do not. This is not an economic ideal, as economics would put the respect on those who own companies. It is also philosophical in nature.

[Apeironic_Entelechy]

Originally posted by Fuinril:

Originally posted by Fourthspartan56:

This is completely wrong, materialism in Stellaris is the philosophical version [en.wikipedia.org] which posits that matter is the fundamental substance in nature and thus rejects immaterial things like spirits or supernatural phenomenon.

The ethic has absolutely nothing to do with economic materialism, which would be obvious if you read the descriptions and looked at the boni. Honestly, I don't know why people keep on saying this :/

Yes, yes I did read the tooltip description too. Now please take a deeper look at the actual effects of materialist ethics....

So what do we have :
- cannot forbid robots, which make sense from pholisophical and economical point of view. Plus it's not even a constraint as you'll just have to not reseearch the tech.
- bonuses on robot upkeep. I'm pretty sure it'as all about economic...
- faster research : could be ok for both version
- academic education : economical only. Does not make any sense philosophicaly speaking

After that you deceide how you would play your empire, depending on your RP and the other ethics you choose. But appart from being opposed to spiritualist there's nothing about philosophy in materialist gameplay.

BTW you are able to play as materialist/egalitarist but it does not play out very well (first thing, the huge bonus from academic education is disabled...) but if you choose authoritarian instead you end up with a very powerful combination.

Giving buffing to academics makes perfect sense considering that the ethos is about rationalism and science, academia are the professions most connected to those concepts.

Getting reduced robot upkeep is merely a result of their support for advanced technology and science, advanced robots have no special connection to capitalism.

Neither the boni nor description involve economic materialism, your position is unfounded.

Read the descriptions:

Although it hurts, we must grow up and put aside our outdated notions of morality. There is no 'divine spark' granting special value to a living mind. No object has any intrinsic value apart from what we choose to grant it. Let us embrace the freedom of certitude, and achieve maximum efficiency in all things!

As we reach for the stars, we must put away childish things; gods, spirits and other phantasms of the brain. Reality is cruel and unforgiving, yet we must steel ourselves and secure the survival of our race through the unflinching pursuit of science and technology.

The special civic that requires materialist is technocracy, ie. rule by scientists and rationalism.

To connect the materialist ethos to capitalism makes no sense and relies on a tortued intrepretation of the ethos that isn't actually connected to how it works in-game.

[FoolishOwl]

Originally posted by Fourthspartan56:

[
This is completely wrong, materialism in Stellaris is the philosophical version [en.wikipedia.org] which posits that matter is the fundamental substance in nature and thus rejects immaterial things like spirits or supernatural phenomenon.

It's connected, with respect to theories of mind. Materialism is monist; it posits that there is only material substance, from which it follows that minds are a property of matter in a certain configuration. Spiritualism seems to refer to a dualist conception, in which there's a second substance, spirit; thinking beings have spirits as well as bodies. In that context, it makes sense that in Stellaris, materialist societies are more willing to grant citizenship to AI, and so on.

But beyond that, it mostly seems to settle into familiar space opera tropes: Vulcans and Minbari, as said above.