spiritualist without religion?

[.]

In stellaris spiritualists by default have a religion. But is it necessarily true? In real world you can be a spiritualist without believing any gods. I take spiritualism in a philosophical way, which is the doctrine that the spirit exists as distinct from matter, or that spirit is the only reality. Having such a belief does not make one become a religious person.

[cooltv27]

spiritualist in stellaris is not religious. spiritualism in stellaris is basically "organic beings have something that makes them different, trying to replicate that with robots is an abomination)

[Olivinism]

Who said that you have to follow the direction offered by the game? My Rogue Servitors didn't slowly gain on their Organics as they fell into laziness as the game suggests, instead my bots siezed control immediately. Ignore the heading story if it doesn't fit what you want to do.

[.]

Originally posted by cooltv27:

spiritualist in stellaris is not religious. spiritualism in stellaris is basically "organic beings have something that makes them different, trying to replicate that with robots is an abomination)

well, if thats the case, why spiritualists cannot grant robots citizenship? and the spiritualists faction will be angry about Cybernetic. Also, there are many texts that obviously implies there is a state religion or whatever. The second part of your definition really has no ground. Why would a spiritualist refuse to learn more about the mind?

[.]

Originally posted by GyRO:

Who said that you have to follow the direction offered by the game? My Rogue Servitors didn't slowly gain on their Organics as they fell into laziness as the game suggests, instead my bots siezed control immediately. Ignore the heading story if it doesn't fit what you want to do.

Thats what I did. But it has something to do with the settings. Like citizenship of robots. And I think if they made a separate religion system it could be better. You know there are something like Scientology.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by .:

Having such a belief does not make one become a religious person.

The game holds the concept of religion in an abstract position. A non-spiritualist society could have a religion, or many religions, but those religions are not in a position of powerful motivation over the society. In a spiritualist society there could be one or more religions, but the difference is that spirituality is a driving force in how the people govern themselves and organize their society. It is meaningful to talk about a spiritual individual who doesn't follow any religion, but a society of spiritual people will inevitably formalize their beliefs into the structure of one or more religions.

However, the game does not specify whether a society has one or many religions, or how they interact with one another. Also, spiritualist empires receive bonuses to interact with one another even though it is likely that those two societies are made up of different religions whose beliefs vary somewhat. So while the existance of religion(s) within a spiritualist empire is almost assured, it is a more generic principle that defines what it means to be a spiritualist empire in Stellaris.

Your statement "the doctrine that the spirit exists as distinct from matter, or that spirit is the only reality" is a fitting example of this. It is a generic statement of spirituality that could transcend the notion of specific religions and their specific beliefs and instead summarize a common principle that binds them apart from non-spiritualist views of the universe. It also explains their aversion to artificial life, which they apparently believe must be without a spirit as a consequence of its artificial and matter-centric method of creation.

Of course it is possible to imagine a "spiritualist" society that has a different view of robots. Maybe there are rituals performed during the creation of the vessel that impart the machine with a spirit, for example. Such a society might not have an objection to artificial life. However, this is not unique in Stellaris - any limitation in the game can be imagined around. Maybe there could be a form of ftl travel that doesn't follow warp lanes. Or maybe there could be ship hull that is larger than a corvette but smaller than a destroyer. Or a titan-class vessel with a shipyard on it that can build corvettes. The list is essentially infinite, limted only by our imagination. The game's designers, however, have to impose limits on the game in order to make it work (because a limitless game would require an infinite amount of time to program, and would only run on a computer with infinite computing power).

So the point is that, as much as some people might want to be able to mix spirituality and robots, this just isn't something that Stellaris is designed to provide. If this is very important to you, then check for a mod that permits it.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by .:

Originally posted by GyRO:

Who said that you have to follow the direction offered by the game? My Rogue Servitors didn't slowly gain on their Organics as they fell into laziness as the game suggests, instead my bots siezed control immediately. Ignore the heading story if it doesn't fit what you want to do.

Thats what I did. But it has something to do with the settings. Like citizenship of robots. And I think if they made a separate religion system it could be better. You know there are something like Scientology.

scientology isn't about faith through science though, they'd probably be opposed to robots due to them not having a "soul".

[Danny]

I also don't get why ALL robots need to be a machine intelligence?
Why can't we have robots like in Futurama? Where every robot is their own individual. :\

[Meewec]

Originally posted by Danny:

I also don't get why ALL robots need to be a machine intelligence?
Why can't we have robots like in Futurama? Where every robot is their own individual. :\

synths built by biologicals are

[Danny]

Originally posted by Meewec:

Originally posted by Danny:

I also don't get why ALL robots need to be a machine intelligence?
Why can't we have robots like in Futurama? Where every robot is their own individual. :\

synths built by biologicals are

But not starting machine empires... :\

[Olivinism]

Originally posted by Danny:

I also don't get why ALL robots need to be a machine intelligence?
Why can't we have robots like in Futurama? Where every robot is their own individual. :\

Maybe they are all individual, but the Spiritualists just refuse to see that? Look past the hard-written story and do whatever.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Danny:

Originally posted by Meewec:

Originally posted by Danny:

I also don't get why ALL robots need to be a machine intelligence?
Why can't we have robots like in Futurama? Where every robot is their own individual. :\

synths built by biologicals are

But not starting machine empires... :\

If you want to start in a Futurama-like setting with biologicals and robots then you take the Mechanist civic.

If you want to play just robots, but not a machine intelligence, then you take the Mechanist civic and get rid of your bio pops somehow (stick them on a planet and release them as a vassal, or whatever else works). It's not really recommended because of the penalties that robots have for research and energy production, but it is possible to do it.

If you want to play just robots, but not a machine intelligence, and not have any biologicals that you have to get rid of, then you have to use or make a mod for that.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

Originally posted by Danny:

But not starting machine empires... :\

If you want to start in a Futurama-like setting with biologicals and robots then you take the Mechanist civic.

If you want to play just robots, but not a machine intelligence, then you take the Mechanist civic and get rid of your bio pops somehow (stick them on a planet and release them as a vassal, or whatever else works). It's not really recommended because of the penalties that robots have for research and energy production, but it is possible to do it.

If you want to play just robots, but not a machine intelligence, and not have any biologicals that you have to get rid of, then you have to use or make a mod for that.

I think you'd need to wait for droids to get rid of the biologicals if it even let's you do it.

[Malecord]

Spiritualism right now is a big container. There is space for empires looking for God(s), for empires working in the name of their God(s), empires that think of themselves as Gods, empires who don't believe in God but believe in "supernatural" (or "higher" level beings -> Shroud), and maybe even more.

There is much space to expand spiritualism in future Stellaris expansions. Religions would be especially interesting. But I would say that this is low priority.

For now you should think as Spiritualist empires as empires that believe that life -at least sentient one- is given by souls. That is the common trait all of them share and the very reason they cannot accept machines as living beings. Then if this has religious implications or not it's for you to decide with some RP.

[Stormsong]

Originally posted by Malecord:

For now you should think as Spiritualist empires as empires that believe that life -at least sentient one- is given by souls. That is the common trait all of them share and the very reason they cannot accept machines as living beings. Then if this has religious implications or not it's for you to decide with some RP.

^

[Chastity the Celibate]

Originally posted by Malecord:

Spiritualism right now is a big container. There is space for empires looking for God(s), for empires working in the name of their God(s), empires that think of themselves as Gods, empires who don't believe in God but believe in "supernatural" (or "higher" level beings -> Shroud), and maybe even more.

There is much space to expand spiritualism in future Stellaris expansions. Religions would be especially interesting. But I would say that this is low priority.

For now you should think as Spiritualist empires as empires that believe that life -at least sentient one- is given by souls. That is the common trait all of them share and the very reason they cannot accept machines as living beings. Then if this has religious implications or not it's for you to decide with some RP.

Spiritualism needs a in-depth rework with religions, priest/prophet leaders, missionary funding, and all that jazz. The other ethics could also use some more exclusive features.