How is my ally taking over my occupations?

[Dendonker]

It's a 2 on 1 war and I occupied a few star systems. Didn't lose possession of them to the enemy, but when my ally moved across that entity is now the occupant. How the hell does that happen and can I do the same to take the systems back from my ally? Damn bastards didn't do a thing (I fought the first three huge battles and sustained major damage) but somehow ended up occupying systems for no reason from me. Wth, man. A game like this shouldn't have strange nonsense like that.

[Crim]

Whoever has the most claims gets the system.

[Elitewrecker PT]

He probably had control since the start and not just when he entered the systems. Because aforementioned reason.
And you can't over claim a system an ally already has claimed, at least not in the middle of the war.

[Dendonker]

Claimed as in formally with influence? I'm positive that the enemy had control of the star systems. When I moved in and after they were under my occupation.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Influence claims yes. When you occupy a system claimed by an ally the symbol should show their flag.

[Dendonker]

So despite my de facto occupation he could make a formal claim and take over? If a war is won, would the star systems that I have de facto occupied and have my flag on them but that I haven't formally claimed transfer to me or what? I guess I should start making at least some claims to prevent the bastard from taking everything.

This is really dumb to be honest. You can be doing all the work but just because someone spends influence they can apparently take the spoils under your nose.

[Shgon Dunstan]

Meh, at the very least there should be a bounty system where they give you some kind of gift for doing all the actual work of taking and holding their new world for them.

[Chastity the Celibate]

It may have his flag but if you have claims on the system you will still get it after the war.

[Dendonker]

Unfortunately I'm the one with the meaningless flag. :( I'm asking if there are systems with my flag on them but without any claims to them, do I get to keep them if the war is won?

[Chastity the Celibate]

Originally posted by Bobby:

Unfortunately I'm the one with the meaningless flag. :( I'm asking if there are systems with my flag on them but without any claims to them, do I get to keep them if the war is won?

No. Make a claim first.

[Dendonker]

So if the enemy gets conquered or wiped, who keeps those systems? Can you just build the cheaper outposts on them afterward if they just become vacant?

[Elitewrecker PT]

If you occupy a claimed system, the flag SHOULD show the person that will get it in the event you keep control of the system (through a full victory or a status quo). You can't claim a system an ally has already claimed, at least not during a war I believe.

If a system is unclaimed and the original owner is wiped out I'm fairly sure they'll become unclaimed (no owner at all). What would happen otherwise, you can't play without planets...

At the end of the war, if a system wasn't claimed prior to or during the war, the system will revert to the original owner (in case he's still alive).

[Rhedd]

Playing decades of over-simplified wargames sure hasn't taught us how to be team players, has it?

There's nothing sneaky, underhanded, or unfair about this.

Imagine you're Great Britain in WWII. Imagine you send your troops to the Philippines and liberate it from the Japanese. Your allies, the US, have strong claims on the Philippines (for no particularly honorable reason, which is why I picked this scenario). Do you as Britain drive out all of the Japanese and then phone FDR and say, "Sorry, sucker! WE own the Philippines now!"? No, you don't because that would be a ♥♥♥♥ move. The US gets the place when the war is over and your troops go home.

Your ally had claims on those systems before you went to war. Presumably, since you're ALLIES, if you go to war and drive your common enemy off of the planets your ALLY (that means friend) wants, you're doing so for them. If they didn't help that doesn't matter. Maybe they were busy. Maybe they didn't want to start this war in the first place. Maybe they watched you doing all the work and said, "What nice fellows!" Regardless, they said on the front end what they considered theirs, and as a friend you respect that. If you feel used, next time leave their claimed planets alone and let them do the work if they want them.

What this game really needs is a big red "I want to be a ♥♥♥♥" button. Press it and suddenly you can do whatever you want without submitting to the complex rules of politics and diplomatic relations, but all the other empires stop dealing with you and call you dirty names behind your back. Freedom! :)

[Elitewrecker PT]

Cool post :P

[Shgon Dunstan]

Originally posted by Rhedd:

Playing decades of over-simplified wargames sure hasn't taught us how to be team players, has it?

There's nothing sneaky, underhanded, or unfair about this.

Imagine you're Great Britain in WWII. Imagine you send your troops to the Philippines and liberate it from the Japanese. Your allies, the US, have strong claims on the Philippines (for no particularly honorable reason, which is why I picked this scenario). Do you as Britain drive out all of the Japanese and then phone FDR and say, "Sorry, sucker! WE own the Philippines now!"? No, you don't because that would be a ♥♥♥♥ move. The US gets the place when the war is over and your troops go home.

Your ally had claims on those systems before you went to war. Presumably, since you're ALLIES, if you go to war and drive your common enemy off of the planets your ALLY (that means friend) wants, you're doing so for them. If they didn't help that doesn't matter. Maybe they were busy. Maybe they didn't want to start this war in the first place. Maybe they watched you doing all the work and said, "What nice fellows!" Regardless, they said on the front end what they considered theirs, and as a friend you respect that. If you feel used, next time leave their claimed planets alone and let them do the work if they want them.

What this game really needs is a big red "I want to be a ♥♥♥♥" button. Press it and suddenly you can do whatever you want without submitting to the complex rules of politics and diplomatic relations, but all the other empires stop dealing with you and call you dirty names behind your back. Freedom! :)

If you’re a tiny nation that sits back and does NOTHING in the war both you and your larger “ally” are in, then... Congratulations, you already ARE nothing but their vassal.

... Honestly, like with a lot of the “RL examples” people seem to want to give to excuse the new war mechanics, it kind of misses the deeper politics of said RL examples.

Nations don’t just “hand back” war gains to their enemies for nothing whatsoever. Not even their allies for that matter.

[Chastity the Celibate]

Originally posted by Shgon Dunstan:

Originally posted by Rhedd:

Playing decades of over-simplified wargames sure hasn't taught us how to be team players, has it?

There's nothing sneaky, underhanded, or unfair about this.

Imagine you're Great Britain in WWII. Imagine you send your troops to the Philippines and liberate it from the Japanese. Your allies, the US, have strong claims on the Philippines (for no particularly honorable reason, which is why I picked this scenario). Do you as Britain drive out all of the Japanese and then phone FDR and say, "Sorry, sucker! WE own the Philippines now!"? No, you don't because that would be a ♥♥♥♥ move. The US gets the place when the war is over and your troops go home.

Your ally had claims on those systems before you went to war. Presumably, since you're ALLIES, if you go to war and drive your common enemy off of the planets your ALLY (that means friend) wants, you're doing so for them. If they didn't help that doesn't matter. Maybe they were busy. Maybe they didn't want to start this war in the first place. Maybe they watched you doing all the work and said, "What nice fellows!" Regardless, they said on the front end what they considered theirs, and as a friend you respect that. If you feel used, next time leave their claimed planets alone and let them do the work if they want them.

What this game really needs is a big red "I want to be a ♥♥♥♥" button. Press it and suddenly you can do whatever you want without submitting to the complex rules of politics and diplomatic relations, but all the other empires stop dealing with you and call you dirty names behind your back. Freedom! :)

If you’re a tiny nation that sits back and does NOTHING in the war both you and your larger “ally” are in, then... Congratulations, you already ARE nothing but their vassal.

... Honestly, like with a lot of the “RL examples” people seem to want to give to excuse the new war mechanics, it kind of misses the deeper politics of said RL examples.

Nations don’t just “hand back” war gains to their enemies for nothing whatsoever. Not even their allies for that matter.

We gave pretty much all of Germany and Japan’s land back after WWII. Except for Korea