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Firely Jun 11, 2018 @ 6:47pm
Shroud a bit too strong?
Is just me or the tech you get from the Shroud seems a bit too strong, as a cyborg or full syntetic conversion empire i cant get so much big bonus , same for genetic modification master , considering that from psionic ascension you get even the extra perks , what do you think?
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Showing 1-15 of 36 comments
Botji Jun 11, 2018 @ 7:03pm 
I agree.. not much else to say I think.
Imo even the psionic pop/leader trait is better than the others, the psi computer, shields and jump drive are all better than the others as well.
Athmet Jun 11, 2018 @ 7:08pm 
Well, with the Synth ascension, you can specialized pops easily which I quite like. Leaders are all immortal (with the occasional bug) and the bonus are not so bad. Fool of spiritualist ! :p
Wolfier Jun 11, 2018 @ 7:12pm 
from what i know, thats sort of the point. Assuming you're talking bonuses you get for making a pact with the shroud, its supposably what you paid at the cost of the galaxy. If you are refering to something else then idk.
_ALuX_ Jun 11, 2018 @ 7:34pm 
Its supposed to be strong, so when The End comes rolling allong it becomes even more bitter.
With other forms of ascension, you get your benefits immediately. With psionic ascension, there are powerful advantages out there, but you have to invest energy and time trying to get them. Maybe you get lucky and get a huge advantage early, or maybe you spend 50 years and all you get are minor temporary buffs and failed attempts.
Liberty Prime Jun 11, 2018 @ 10:38pm 
Nah, synthetic Ascension is much stronger. Massive bonus to everything, 100% habitability everywhere, super specialized pops (easy to do too), and decent leader traits. Despite that, psionic Ascension is the most fun path and is still leagues better than biological which is only worth it as a hive mind (it's your only option) or slavers.
HugsAndSnuggles Jun 11, 2018 @ 11:46pm 
Pretty sure shroud is not ascention-exclusive, unless that was changed?
Asuzu Jun 11, 2018 @ 11:57pm 
Originally posted by Firely:
Is just me or the tech you get from the Shroud seems a bit too strong, as a cyborg or full syntetic conversion empire i cant get so much big bonus , same for genetic modification master , considering that from psionic ascension you get even the extra perks , what do you think?

Psionics? What a hogwash! (c) Stellaris popup

Is it strong? Yes.
Is it fun to play with/explore? Yes.
Is it better than Synth? As an avid player of both, with gazillion hours put in - I would say "Hell, No".
Materialists if played right will outperform/outscience/outeverything Psionics by the loooong run.
We are talking dozens of years if not centuries here.

Yes you get a few unique techs, but in reality, who cares when by the time you get there ascended Materialists own most of known galaxy and field fleets twice your size.
People just have no idea how to play Synth Ascention to its strength.

Ok here goes:

1) Pick +Intelligent, +Thrifty, +Traditional penguins. -Nonadaptive and -Sedentary (free points). They will never set foot on diseased dirt balls you call planet colonies.

2) Best is Fanatic Materialist + Militarist/Xenophobe.
Pick Life-seeded and Technocracy (+1 alternative is very strong and allows to rush Droids as early as 2230).
Pick Oligarchic or Dictatorial or Imperial government for less elections chaos and constant Overseer agenda and freedom to do with dirty xenos what you want. Ideally you want Overseer with boosts to minerals/energy and Scientific Leap agenda for whopping 10% science speed.
Everything else race-wise is optional. I recommend penguins for immersion.

3) You never settle on those horrible dirty worlds outsie of your pretty 25-sized Gaia planet. Usually claim no more than 20 systems, ever. That will give you 1 additional Starbase and put your initial research penalty at 19% max - easily overcome with ridiculous boosts you have from Scientific Leap on your leaders + Research Grants edict.
If landscape looks ripe for taking, and there are good strategic resources lying around - can expand more to 40 systems for another +1 Starbase. Not recommended though.
The one and only resource worth stretching your territory for is Living Metal. So, survey around and plan accordingly.
In general, it takes 2-3 Starbases to guard an empire with 20 systems, and 4-5 Starbases to guard an Empire with 40 systems, so it is more resource-heavy to uphold, since you have to take care of Bastions instead of building those juicy Trading Hubs.

4) Rush your Engineering research to Robots, then Droids. You only need 2-3 planets inside your borders to settle your Droids. Pick biggest planets. Build nothing but mines there + mineral processing plant with occasional farm.
Your homeworld now will replace all mines at this time as your unity + energy + science center, while droids mine the crap out of dirtballs around. Make sure to research robomodding right after Robot tech (always available) and give your Droids huge groin-mounted mining drills, as second modding option I usually pick -10% upkeep for energy saving.

Your early scientists should be: Computing expert in Physics, Biology expert in Social, Industry expert in Engineering.
The reasons are simple - you need several core techs from these fields, and these guys have better chance at drawing right cards. You need to research AI techs in Physics, you need Gene Sequencing to mod your pops with Brain Slugs/etc in Social and you need Robots->Droids->Synths in Engineering.

Your later-game scientists should be: Particles expert in Physics for reactor (need Zero-Point power for Megastructures) and energy weapon techs, Military expert in Social for fleet techs, Voidcraft expert in Engineering for ship/hulls techs.

5) Open Discovery tradition, rush to research alternatives +1, then Faith in Science - it will give you so much Unity.
Then I go Expansion - usually about time Droids are to get settled. When you finish Expansion you will get 2 more core worlds - you can settle more Droids in for more ridiculous mineral boosts + settle more penguins out for a research/energy world if you were lucky to find another Gaia planet.

Then Harmony for Paradise Domes, then Prosperity for energy into whatever you want (I go Supremacy -> Domination-> Diplomacy).
Ascention perks - you open up with Technological Ascendancy, then Voidborne / Ascention 1 -> Master Builders -> Galactic Wonders -> Ascention 1 / Ascention 2 -> Whatever

6) If you found Brain Slug, rejoice - nobody will ever outscience you.
Research Gene Sequencing, and apply Brain slug to all your pops for ridiculous boosts.
After that, ascend into Cyborgs for ridiculous life spans, more search boost while keeping your Brain Slugs. Always apply Slogs first. If you cannot hit Gene Sequencing, pick Voidborne instead until you can apply Slugs to all pops.
Same with Alien Box - as soon as you modified all your pops, you can pick the Blue Vial and give your pops Venerable - that will make your leaders pretty much immortal and might be an overkill, but whatever.

7) Your mineral income should be ridiculous by now, so you start building some nice shiny habitats for your penguins in your home system.
You build science habitats and energy habitats, usual ratio is 2 to 1.
I usually build no more than 3-6 habitats, by that time the Ringworld tech becomes avaiilable.
The amount of Habitats to build depends if you got places around to settle.
The new Ancient Hulk anomaly leading to a size 25 Gaia world you can mold into anything you want (hint, fill it with research labs and some energy) is so good, you can skip building too much Habitats.

8) As for defenses and starports, since you have settled just 10-20 systems, make sure to place your borders so you have to cover max 2-3 chokepoints. Build the strongests bastions there you can, torpedo-spamming Defense platforms are your friend early game and will rip apart anything coming. Laugh at your Devouring Swarm / Marauder / Purifier Neighbours and make sure to insult them every month. When you research most weapon techs, rebuild your missile slots into Gun slots - they are more effective now.
All other starbases are on top of your settled planets as trading hubs, bringing you insane amounts of energy. When you get extra starbases, you put up dedicated Shipyard base, then dedicated Anchorages.
You never need any fleets beyond early game to deal with pirates, and maybe kill some early creeps for research. You can kill late-game creeps when your fleet-spamming facilities are ready.

9) Build Ringworld and settle it, usually I use all sections to mine more minerals unless the section is very rich on special resources for science/energy. Instead of Droids though, settle it with your penguins!
Now when your mineral income is shooting into the sky, you can tackle Dyson sphere that will resolve your energy problems forever.
After that, build all other wonders/whatever. Would be good time to replace all energy Habitats with science.

9) Now you are ready to ascend into synths. Remember several things before you do:

- The stupid religious Fallen Empire will hate you for going synth, and will declare war on you. Make sure you field serious fleets and your Bastions are in top condition. Let them come, get slaughtered like sheep and get reverse-engineered.

- The AI rights policy will remain the way it was before you ascended, I recommend to keep it at Servitude, or you will run into serious problems later when conquering enemy Synths and dealing with Syth uprising.

- The way to wiggle around Synth uprising is to pre-emptively decomission ALL your Droid/Synth pops (Undesirable trash). That's why you never settle Ring/Gaia worlds with robots - so you can keep the mining going even without them. Will be a rough period, but who cares when you have 50k minerals stockpiled.

- So now you have synthetic citizens, they all are 200% habitable, all basically super-happy in Materialist faction, they are robots but have happiness+Gaia bonuses and in general ridiculously OP.
I usually stop botheric with min-maxing at that point, just pick +2 leader skills and +happiness and gov ethics attraction, along with +exp gain or something, but you CAN mod them according to planets, giving then more minerals and science/energy depending where they live. I just like having no-brain same pop template everywhere and don't bother with those 10% gains. Also works much better with sector AI who is atrocious at building correct pops.

- After you synth ascend, pick Assimilation for new species. Now you are ready to conquer all known world. The way new Assimilation works is EXTREMELY powerful - you turn all pops you conquer into YOUR pops. It's ridiculous. You literally replace all those useless xenos with your own super-happy synth pops over short time.

More caveats:

- With leader Capacity Boosters and syth +2 level mod, if you change government now for Oligarchic with Meritocracy, you can have maxed 10 level leaders.

- Keep researching more starbase quantities to build more Anchorages, basically, at that point, you should cover all your core in Anchorages.

Laugh at endgame crises with maxed fleets and 3k minerals/month income.
Conquer all your neighbours and make them your vassals/tributaries.
Insult Awaken Empires, because marauders are dead by now and you got to insult someone.

GL HF.
Last edited by Asuzu; Jun 12, 2018 @ 3:48am
Originally posted by HugsAndSnuggles:
Pretty sure shroud is not ascention-exclusive, unless that was changed?
The shroud is specifically associated with psionic ascension and cannot be accessed without the 2nd psionic ascension perk.


Originally posted by Asuzu:
Materialists if played right will outperform/outscience/outeverything Psionics by the loooong run.
We are talking dozens of years if not centuries here.
We're just talking about ascension paths, not ethics. Choosing Materialist does make psionic ascention unlikely, but not impossible. I'm playing a game right now as Fanatic Materialist in which I got a leader fairly early with psionic specialization, who spent his life in charge of my society research and was able to unlock psionic ascension for me. I'd been planning to do synthetic ascension, of course, but the rare chances to play Psionic Materialists are worth taking so I changed my plan. I'm glad I did because it's been quite fun.

Anyway, the point is that comparing Materialist vs. Psionics as if they are mutually exclusive is flawed.
HugsAndSnuggles Jun 12, 2018 @ 1:07am 
Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:
Originally posted by HugsAndSnuggles:
Pretty sure shroud is not ascention-exclusive, unless that was changed?
The shroud is specifically associated with psionic ascension and cannot be accessed without the 2nd psionic ascension perk.
All you needed in 1.8 is to have psi pops.
Originally posted by HugsAndSnuggles:
All you needed in 1.8 is to have psi pops.
Hmm...well, honestly, I don't think I've ever had psionic pops without having taken psionic ascension myself. So, I'm not in a position to say you're wrong, or that it has changed.
Originally posted by butters:
Nah, synthetic Ascension is much stronger. Massive bonus to everything, 100% habitability everywhere, super specialized pops (easy to do too), and decent leader traits. Despite that, psionic Ascension is the most fun path and is still leagues better than biological which is only worth it as a hive mind (it's your only option) or slavers.

Synth ascension weakness is getting hacked by the Contingency
Asuzu Jun 12, 2018 @ 4:49am 
Originally posted by xnadu27:
Originally posted by butters:
Nah, synthetic Ascension is much stronger. Massive bonus to everything, 100% habitability everywhere, super specialized pops (easy to do too), and decent leader traits. Despite that, psionic Ascension is the most fun path and is still leagues better than biological which is only worth it as a hive mind (it's your only option) or slavers.

Synth ascension weakness is getting hacked by the Contingency

https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Crisis#The_Ghost_Signal
"Synthetically Ascended empires are immune to Ghost Signal"

Replace yoru ship comps and you are done.
Anyway, by the time that happens, if played right, you have asserted enough dominion over the galaxy, and field fleets that can take Contingency apart, then go to their home or whatever they live and take apart anything in there, then visit their grandma and take her apart too.
Last edited by Asuzu; Jun 12, 2018 @ 4:53am
Firely Jun 12, 2018 @ 5:16am 
Well from the Shroud you get top of the top tech , even better than fortress tech or fallen empire tech ) , also you get some random bonus and malus ofc , but it has happened me to find 40% sublight speed or 10-20 fire rate witch totaly out of scale .

PSI jump drive for example even with 2.0 travel remain an amazing tech

Btw i never had problem with other ascension way too , i usually end my game at 2700+ ending the standard game goal, crisis cleaned etc and becouse the game become too slow (always playing 1k star galaxy)
Last edited by Firely; Jun 12, 2018 @ 5:19am
Meneluma Jun 12, 2018 @ 6:46am 
Shroud is a big pile of RNG, you can get screwed over failing a roll for the "top tech" like three times in a row not getting much aside a few temporary buffs from the succesful breaches.

The fortress is a constant, kill it, do the event chain correctly, research unlocked tech.
Synthetics are also very straightforward, get the perks, do the project, enjoy.

The End could use a rework, because it normally is an optional hard mode for if you snowballed so hard to the point that you are bored.
A weaker version of The End could roll in as an end crisis if there's a lot of psi empires around the place, or if the player empire commits too far in that path. Each psi empire present would add a medium number to the crisis bank, succesful shroud events adding a small modifier each, top psi tech researched would add up by a lot too, psi assimilating other species would also contribute to the total, and if the total number surpasses the AI rebellion and Unbidden triggers, the The End eats a small chunk of a random psi empire and goes on about doing its business with the overpowered energy blobs.
Weaker version is needed because the current version literally wiping your empire without a single chance to stand up to it right away would be too tough, the AI can't handle it, a player will struggle with the huge losses they took.
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Date Posted: Jun 11, 2018 @ 6:47pm
Posts: 36