What the hell is a 'hyperlane'?

[Sverd]

Can someone explain to me, in technobabble or otherwise, what a 'hyperlane' is supposed to be? Supposedly they're an 'extradimensional plane along gravity wells' according to the description. I enjoy roleplaying in strategy games, and that becomes very difficult when something as critical as the FTL method fundamentally makes no f-cking sense whatsoever. Are you telling me that there's an... adjacent dimension to ours that only exists at specific points inbetween systems? And that it can only be accessed at arbitrary points at the edge of each galactic rim? And that being able to slip into an alternative dimension with rudimentary technology is not only safe but also somehow transports you at faster-than-light speeds and delivers you, 100% of the time, through to another system like a miniature wormhole - and that these magic meme tiny wormholes only exist to connect a certain, arbitrary number of relatively nearby systems? WHAT!? None of this makes any sense whatsoever.

I'm not the kind of player who cares about balance, so my concerns about this are entirely roleplaying-based. Maybe this is beating a dead horse still, but the removal of warp drives has irked me a great deal only because hyperlanes are completely nonsensical. A warp drive can work with theoretical technobabble and a constructed wormhole could be theorized even in reality - you're using a device to warp physical space and bend the laws of physics around you, or you're artifically inducing a temporary wormhole to get where you need to go. But the basic premise of 'hyperlanes' is so mind-bogglingly ridiculous and nonsensical that it can't even function under theoretical technobabble. There's no 'alternative dimension of tiny permenant adjacent wormholes that we can slip into and out of to get across the galaxy instantly but only at specific areas', and we call physicsts who propose things like this 'institutionally insane'.

If someone can provide me a reasonable technobabble explanation (or, even better, one that could actually be feasible) for how a 'hyperlane' as they're portrayed in Stellaris could exist, I will solemnly swear to never beat this dead horse of muh warp drives again.

[WolfWhiteFire]

You could try imagining them as sort of streams of energy or particles at various points in space, the energy moves at high speeds and with special shields protecting the ships they can ride the streams to various destinations, carried by the force of the energy or particles, and the shield keeps the particles from tearing your ship apart by spreading the force of the impact along a greater area. They are in many places, the ones on the map are just the ones that lead to useful destinations, with others not shown existing at many points, leading to empty space or the such, which realistically would be the case with the vast majority since there is a lot more space than actual planets.

[_ALuX_]

You are beating a dead horse.

1. The way a hyperlane works is that it is a determined path between star systems which act as the safest method to get to point A to point B. Lets just say incinerating yourself by ramming a star at speeds faster than light is a great way to ruin your day.

2. You are travelling at speeds faster than light, it requires a lot of energy in order to slow you down. Inertial dampeners can only go so far. With these pretermined pathways it allows us to be able to speed up, travel, and slow down safely. You cannot just make all that kinetic energy vanish into thin air (remember you are traveling FASTER than LIGHT).

Any questions?

[Markus Reese]

I am limited time and on mobile, but in a way are similar to wormholes but where wormholes are connected folds in space, hyperlanes are networks of energy that can connect sympathetic astral bodies allowing you go along. It isnt FTL in itself, but more of an alternate path that shares with folded space theories.

So here is what happens, we percieve space as flat, but it isnt. Another layer of space isnt affected so much by whatisitcslled, planar space theory. So while normal space is like driving over and around a mountain, hyperlane is taking a straight tunnel.

Best example in other sci fi I can think of is Babylon 5's FTL system.

[Sverd]

Originally posted by WolfWhiteFire:

You could try imagining them as sort of streams of energy or particles at various points in space, the energy moves at high speeds and with special shields protecting the ships they can ride the streams to various destinations, carried by the force of the energy or particles, and the shield keeps the particles from tearing your ship apart by spreading the force of the impact along a greater area. They are in many places, the ones on the map are just the ones that lead to useful destinations, with others not shown existing at many points, leading to empty space or the such, which realistically would be the case with the vast majority since there is a lot more space than actual planets.

So... riding a beam of light, at... faster-than-light speeds. Even if we accept the premise of a massive chunk of metal 'riding' a beam of energy, there is still a rather fundamental issue with the fact that most forms of energy are, comparative to the speeds ships would need to go at, very, very slow.

It's a better explanation than the alternative dimension thing though.

[Sverd]

Originally posted by _ALuX_:

You are beating a dead horse.

1. The way a hyperlane works is that it is a determined path between star systems which act as the safest method to get to point A to point B. Lets just say incinerating yourself by ramming a star at speeds faster than light is a great way to ruin your day.

2. You are travelling at speeds faster than light, it requires a lot of energy in order to slow you down. Inertial dampeners can only go so far. With these pretermined pathways it allows us to be able to speed up, travel, and slow down safely. You cannot just make all that kinetic energy vanish into thin air (remember you are traveling FASTER than LIGHT).

Any questions?

You have answered exactly no questions about what a 'hyperlane' is supposed to be beyond a 'predetermined path'. Are you attempting to make the claim that hyperlanes are supposed to be charted paths from one system to another, and your navigators are unable to chart any paths other than a tiny handful of arbitrary connections because reasons? Maybe we should hire someone competent.

Originally posted by twistedmelon:

I am limited time and on mobile, but in a way are similar to wormholes but where wormholes are connected folds in space, hyperlanes are networks of energy that can connect sympathetic astral bodies allowing you go along. It isnt FTL in itself, but more of an alternate path that shares with folded space theories.

So here is what happens, we percieve space as flat, but it isnt. Another layer of space isnt affected so much by whatisitcslled, planar space theory. So while normal space is like driving over and around a mountain, hyperlane is taking a straight tunnel.

Best example in other sci fi I can think of is Babylon 5's FTL system.

This is a good answer. There are a lot of questions it leaves (like how emergency FTL could possibly work) but it's a lot better than what the base game gives us.

[_ALuX_]

Originally posted by Turnop:

Originally posted by _ALuX_:

You are beating a dead horse.

1. The way a hyperlane works is that it is a determined path between star systems which act as the safest method to get to point A to point B. Lets just say incinerating yourself by ramming a star at speeds faster than light is a great way to ruin your day.

2. You are travelling at speeds faster than light, it requires a lot of energy in order to slow you down. Inertial dampeners can only go so far. With these pretermined pathways it allows us to be able to speed up, travel, and slow down safely. You cannot just make all that kinetic energy vanish into thin air (remember you are traveling FASTER than LIGHT).

Any questions?

You have answered exactly no questions about what a 'hyperlane' is supposed to be beyond a 'predetermined path'. Are you attempting to make the claim that hyperlanes are supposed to be charted paths from one system to another, and your navigators are unable to chart any paths other than a tiny handful of arbitrary connections because reasons? Maybe we should hire someone competent.

So you want to ram a star at speeds faster than light? Okay.

[Kissamies]

Well, I think they are kind of like wormholes but not really. Two points anchored in space by the gravity wells and connected to each other by a some sort of traversable string. This is hardly the first space 4X game to have them and I dislike their use on a flat map, but they do create a terrain of sorts and provide an excuse for having so few stars in the galaxy. One can think there are many more, but only those shown on map have a hyperlane leading to them.

[Sverd]

Thanks for deleting my ten minute reply steam, really appreciate that one buddy

Originally posted by _ALuX_:

Originally posted by Turnop:

You have answered exactly no questions about what a 'hyperlane' is supposed to be beyond a 'predetermined path'. Are you attempting to make the claim that hyperlanes are supposed to be charted paths from one system to another, and your navigators are unable to chart any paths other than a tiny handful of arbitrary connections because reasons? Maybe we should hire someone competent.

So you want to ram a star at speeds faster than light? Okay.

If they're just pre-plotted paths, there is no reason why your navigators can't plot out paths to all stars in a reasonable radius, given your current FTL technology.

Like.

Y'know.

Jump drives.

Originally posted by Kissamies:

Well, I think they are kind of like wormholes but not really. Two points anchored in space by the gravity wells and connected to each other by a some sort of traversable string. This is hardly the first space 4X game to have them and I dislike their use on a flat map, but they do create a terrain of sorts and provide an excuse for having so few stars in the galaxy. One can think there are many more, but only those shown on map have a hyperlane leading to them.

It's painfully obvious that the hyperlane system, mechanically, is intended to force easy EU4-style 'You gotta go through my fort before you can get to my stuff' defensive chokepoint metas. It is difficult to rationalize that in terrain where you can literally just walk around in the MASSIVE SURROUNDING VOID, hence forced hyperlane.

But I don't really care about meta or mechanics in this case. I do like twistemelon's rationalization of hyperlanes not being 'true' FTL, but rather just points of spatial folding that make for rapid sublight transit in certain areas. That would mean gateways (basically just wormholes but more advanced, which is fine) are the first kinds of constructed FTL, and Jump Drives are the only 'true' FTL - and even those are very rudimentary, judging by the atrocious penalties for jumping to any system not over hyperlanes (A 200 day cooldown with a -50% damage and speed penalty for the entire 200 days? Come the ♥♥♥♥ on, Wiz). It would be nice if we could eventually research genuine FTL that allowed us to travel through systems at a decent pace without using hyperlanes, but the PDX team seems adamant about trying to force a chokepoint meta even in the late-late game, for some reason.

Regardless, this question is answered. You thought you were a FTL-capable empire? Think again, loser.

[EleventhStar]

it varies per franchise how exactly they work, and this game leaves it vague enough for your to fill in a lot of the blanks.

so go to your favorite scifi franchise wikis and look up their hyperlanes/hyperspace equivalent and go from there,

[_ALuX_]

Originally posted by Turnop:

Thanks for deleting my ten minute reply steam, really appreciate that one buddy

Originally posted by _ALuX_:

So you want to ram a star at speeds faster than light? Okay.

If they're just pre-plotted paths, there is no reason why your navigators can't plot out paths to all stars in a reasonable radius, given your current FTL technology.

Like.

Y'know.

Jump drives.

You can! All you have to do is use the option to increase the hyperlane density in the pre-game menu.

[Albedo]

I think battletech/mechwarrior had a simliar-ish system of travel. Although in that case it was near instantaneous travel, but can only jump a very short distance. They had to jump into another star system in order to recharge their energy before jumping again, and they could only jump into certain points in the system because of gravitation fields.

Or, you could think of it like Elite Dangerous. In a way, it is a hyperlane system. You can jump X distance, so if you want to get from point A to point B, you had to set a path among the stars that look an awful lot like hyperlanes in this game. You could say, theoritically, that in hyperlanes those are the only systems "in range" of your jump drive.

[Markus Reese]

Hrm... Emergency FTL. Going to go back to the Babylon 5.

First off, for those that dont know, there is a lot of Babylon 5 references in the stellaris game. Two most notable examples are the "War in the Heavens" and the Arachnids based off The Shadows. So in B5, gateways open the access for ships, but ships can open a gate themselves. So emergency would be forcing open one outside of the "smooth currents" and same with the experimental.

In B5, there are bouys for the navigation and for the FTL comms. Without the charting of hyperspace, you can easily be lost and have no access to the beacon network. My guess is when you enter emergency you hold position, if retreat is given, then you dont know the navigational bouys so only access is a straight line back to your assigned starbase. Like walking overland.

As for why they can find it, one can surmize that the hyperlanes are dangerous to enter, like trying to enter rapids midstream. So you have to go slower and stick out. One can assume starbases have stronger beacons to allow them detectable at further ranges.

In a way, this can logic closed borders and why science ships must go first. Science ships can chart the hyperspace and deploys bouys. This navigation is why they can experimental so fast around. Closed borders are the encrypting and control of these beacons. So closing borders is essentially making somebody blind to hyperspace.

Jumo drives also b5 which advanced races have. They can essentially tie in and power in hyperspace.

[Ser_Chonks]

You could try modding the description to whatever you like and be happy!

You could even publish what you make and make others happy too :D

[Kissamies]

Originally posted by Albedo:

I think battletech/mechwarrior had a simliar-ish system of travel. Although in that case it was near instantaneous travel, but can only jump a very short distance. They had to jump into another star system in order to recharge their energy before jumping again, and they could only jump into certain points in the system because of gravitation fields.

Or, you could think of it like Elite Dangerous. In a way, it is a hyperlane system. You can jump X distance, so if you want to get from point A to point B, you had to set a path among the stars that look an awful lot like hyperlanes in this game. You could say, theoritically, that in hyperlanes those are the only systems "in range" of your jump drive.

Elite and Battletech FTL really is not the same thing as hyperlanes . Those are both practically instantaneous jump to any target as long as it is within max range. In Battletech that is always 30 LY and in ED it depends on how good FSD you have installed compared to the ship's mass. FSD also has the secondary supercruise mode for in-system movement and that alone might be fast enough for the strategy game timescales.

As for B5's hyperspace similarity, I'm not really seeing it. That show's model just explored the whole "hyperspace as an alternate dimension" concept more than usual, by making it a place you can have adventures and such. If anything, that made it feel that the entry and exit points would be even less restricted than with usual sci-fi hyperspace models. Wouldn't fit the hyperlane model where entries and exits are connected.

[Chastity the Celibate]

Jump Drives are like the Jump Drives in Guardians of the Galaxy where they make like 70 jumps and it distorts spacetime.