War Attrition Tick Rate is Ridiculous

[Radioactive]

The rate at which the Attrition goes up is absolutely insane. I was playing a game in which I effectively already had won, all other empires were of "pathetic" relative strength and the end game crisis was defeated. All that was left was a very weak federation made of the remaining empires - all their fleets combined could barely match the strength of just one of my fleets.

For the sake of fun, I decided I wanted to subjugate all the surviving empires, problem is that the attrition ticks up and forces white peace before I can force my war claim.

It makes absolutely no sense that I am rapidly gaining war attrition when I've never lost a battle, rarely losing more than a few corvettes.

To be clear, I'm not saying its impossible to win and force the claim - I could split my forces and micro manage them to attack from all sides - I'm just saying that the current attrition system is nonsensical, the tick rate needs to be cut in half at least if not more.

[Chastity the Celibate]

Get a mod to fix

[Radioactive]

Originally posted by xnadu27:

Get a mod to fix

Probably will, as well as one to remove the ship limit for planet killers, still not an excuse to a poor thought out system (to be clear, apart from the attrition tick speed, I like the changes)

[Cronotekk]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1311061546

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by Radioactive:

The rate at which the Attrition goes up is absolutely insane. I was playing a game in which I effectively already had won, all other empires were of "pathetic" relative strength and the end game crisis was defeated. All that was left was a very weak federation made of the remaining empires - all their fleets combined could barely match the strength of just one of my fleets.

For the sake of fun, I decided I wanted to subjugate all the surviving empires, problem is that the attrition ticks up and forces white peace before I can force my war claim.

It makes absolutely no sense that I am rapidly gaining war attrition when I've never lost a battle, rarely losing more than a few corvettes.

To be clear, I'm not saying its impossible to win and force the claim - I could split my forces and micro manage them to attack from all sides - I'm just saying that the current attrition system is nonsensical, the tick rate needs to be cut in half at least if not more.

If you could warmonger at your heart's content, it would be too much fun and paradox can't allow that.

[Radioactive]

Originally posted by Andante:

war attrition gain from battles is based on your total naval capacity. If you want war attrition to be more manageable, Id suggest buidling a ton of anchorages. So basically if you customize your empire to be a military powerhouse with tons of naval capacity, war exhaustion from battles wont affect you that much, which kind of make sense.

I'm not talking about the war exhaustion from battles, I'm talking about the passive attrition rate. I've won every space battle (apart from the small handful of time in which they attacked a weak outpost). Also in that example, the enemy had 100% exhaustion, the AI can still refuse to surrender to your claims with the subjugation war goal.

[Ruinous]

Originally posted by Andante:

war attrition gain from battles is based on your total naval capacity. If you want war attrition to be more manageable, Id suggest buidling a ton of anchorages. So basically if you customize your empire to be a military powerhouse with tons of naval capacity, war exhaustion from battles wont affect you that much, which kind of make sense.

Hrmm, this may explain why on insane the enemy is making my war exhaustion go up much more rapidly than their own, even though I'm actually winning each engagement and hold their territory. If so, it really needs to be adjusted because it is ruining the ability to make any significant gains against opponents, and killing the fun of it.

[Radioactive]

Originally posted by Andante:

Originally posted by Radioactive:

Do you have a source for that? I have a whole bunch of anchorages, if I remember correctly I had ~250 fleet power for stations, anchorages, so I doubt I'm lacking on that end, and if that's not enough, then I'd say that's a bit ridiculous.

war exhaustion calculation from battles is 2 x (naval capacity loss/total naval capacity) so you manage war exhaustion, you need either lots of naval capacity or combat passives/doctrines that prevent your ships from being destroyed so the leaders that increase disengage chance and the hit and run tactics help war exhaustion since ships that escape combat dont count as destroyed.

Also make sure your wars are short it does go up passively each year

I was talking about the passive rate, I don't have any issue with the space battle exhaustion. It would make more sense that the passive rate require/depended on the enemy occuping your/core planets rather than just ticking passively despite losing next to nothing.

[theslay66]

Seeing as mods lowering the war attrition are already out, I hope the devs will take the hint.
In the meantime, well... I don't like using mods in this game but in this case I will make an exception.

[GC13]

The passive rate will take twelve years to tick up to full.

[Swagmaster Love 🇪🇺]

I actually dont mind the speed of the tickrate.

What bothers me is that certain wargoals just can't be completed properly anymore.
(Animosity, ideology, etc.)

I cant enforce those demands anymore, if an ally joined the war and demanded a planet, because of the -100 unoccupied system modifier.

The tickrate stops me from achieving my wargoal in that scenario. Not because the tickrate is bad, but because of that situation.

[Radioactive]

Originally posted by Mercy:

I actually dont mind the speed of the tickrate.

What bothers me is that certain wargoals just can't be completed properly anymore.
(Animosity, ideology, etc.)

I cant enforce those demands anymore, if an ally joined the war and demanded a planet, because of the -100 unoccupied system modifier.

The tickrate stops me from achieving my wargoal in that scenario. Not because the tickrate is bad, but because of that situation.

I agree, that's effectively the issue I'm having. Really its either the tick rate or the -100 modifier that's to blame, if either were rebalanced, the issue would be solved.

[Torham]

This system makes no sense for Determined Exterminator. I am rolling over the enemy empire, sterilizing the organic filth, and all of a sudden I am forced to stop? And forced open borders for 10 years after? The enemy did nothing but loose spectacularly and yet they sue for white peace? Whith whom, the murder machines chhemically processing their population?

[Swagmaster Love 🇪🇺]

Originally posted by Torham:

This system makes no sense for Determined Exterminator. I am rolling over the enemy empire, sterilizing the organic filth, and all of a sudden I am forced to stop? And forced open borders for 10 years after? The enemy did nothing but loose spectacularly and yet they sue for white peace? Whith whom, the murder machines chhemically processing their population?

Your subjective "explanation" for it doesnt make any sense, that's true.

Your war exhaustion reached 100%, hence ceasefire.

[Radioactive]

Originally posted by Mercy:

Originally posted by Torham:

This system makes no sense for Determined Exterminator. I am rolling over the enemy empire, sterilizing the organic filth, and all of a sudden I am forced to stop? And forced open borders for 10 years after? The enemy did nothing but loose spectacularly and yet they sue for white peace? Whith whom, the murder machines chhemically processing their population?

Your subjective "explanation" for it doesnt make any sense, that's true.

Your war exhaustion reached 100%, hence ceasefire.

Which doesn't make sense if the majority of the exhaustion is just due to passive growth, the Stellaris dev team needs to take a closer look at how EU IV's system works.

[Straph]

There are so many issues with this space war system. It gets even more ridiculous if you're a machine based empire. Attrition is the action or process of gradually reducing the strength or effectiveness of someone or something through sustained attack or pressure. Thus it would only be possible to force a truce if the other side runs out of money, motivation, or means of producing war units. This wouldn't be possible in 12 years in real world situations unless the attacker was superior in tech, tactics, and resources. Space would make attrition so difficult to accomplish.

I think Paradox needs think a bit differently for war attrition ticks. Paradox didn't think of how long it would take fleets to travel. It should tick 1% per year in passive, and for each station destroyed another 1% tick, for each colony 10% tick, for each system taken 1% tick. If you lose an enitre fleet 10% tick, and nothing would happen if you lose a single ship during combat. If you're winning you shouldn't be stopped from winning, it just drags out winning until later and is a shallow game extention tactic.

You should also be able to set the terms of the peace if you hit attrition last. There shouldn't be an open boarders for 10 years if you were just at war. Some empires shouldn't even have war attrition like hive minds, machines, and fan military. Thats their way of life.