Why Does This One Feel Like A Mess

[ComradeWinston]

All Paradox games expand over time but Stellaris is distinctly ever-changing. I can complain about HoI4 being shallow and mods having many times more content than the base game, that EU4 is mostly done and their recent DLC has been pretty crap, but I feel like I know what they are while Stellaris is all over the place. Not only that but every recent DLC in the last few years has launched laughably broken, making the game appear a meandering mess. After Imperator, I have to wonder if this is just a new theme of Paradox tossing out half-developed games--even by Paradox standards.

I gave Stellaris a thought after rockman DLC was announced but a glance of the reviews tells me it's nothing but the same constantly-broken-by-new-updates and rudderless game its been since around Utopia.

[wolkenwand]

Yes the bugs is annoying, but i think the change to the game mechanic is needed because they need to keep integrate the new features, without any change to the base game it will feels like patchwork game because of the constant new addition.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

From my understand the stellaris dev's changed 3 times already eatch with a different vision on what the game shoud be.

It is a classic case of Too Many Cooks Spoil the Soup:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooManyCooksSpoilTheSoup

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

As for imperator rome.
From what i heard the dev's of that game didnt understand that removing complexity from a grand stragey game(and i personaly hate the fact they call there game's grand strategy despite being little more then an above avarage rts... really grand strategy without spying, diplomacy and supply lines.... what a load of horse poop.) is something the fans dont like and they are making attempts to fix it.

I believe the reason for there sub-par games of late is a sign of the times.
Many companies have fallen for that wider audiance line and lost money because of it.
Not just paradox.
The problem with making a game for everyone is that you end up with a game for no one.

Imperator rome for example was(from what i was told) worse then there previous games in terms of gameplay complexity.
It was made too simple.
And the last thing grand strategy(still hurts to type that lie) fans want is simple games.

I play stellaris because of love the many sci fi tropes it has.
Still want them to accauly fix the hive mind unity text(you get normal empire text if you hover over it) and stop seeing normal hive minds as tyranids and accauly make them more then just a bad machine empire.

I am looking forward to the federation dlc because it would make federation worth a damm.
And that is my problem with paradox games in general.
They have great idea's, fanatic's even.
They are just very very very very very bad in implementing the idea's and require a few billion patch's and dlc in order to fix it.
And the worst part is that we accept it because paradox accauly has good idea's.
90% of the games these day are just the same old junk and even paradox seem to be hellbend of recylcing there old good games these days.
Failing to understand that people wont buy the same game they already have without the dlc just because it looks nicer.
Also with modern day poltic's being what they are alot of gamers triple check games before buying them to make sure they arent political messege's in disguese.
We games after all to get away from real life crap.

[Vyndicu]

I believe there was only two game director so far for Stellaris?

Anyway you are correct in that they changed direction one time too many.

[Evilgenius]

Originally posted by Vyndicu:

I believe there was only two game director so far for Stellaris?

Anyway you are correct in that they changed direction one time too many.

There where only 2 indeed. And i am very happy that they changed the game so much, there finally was something to do compared to pre-2.0, i do wish it would run better.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Vyndicu:

I believe there was only two game director so far for Stellaris?

Anyway you are correct in that they changed direction one time too many.

Ah two times.
Thanks for the correction.

Originally posted by evilgenius:

Originally posted by Vyndicu:

I believe there was only two game director so far for Stellaris?

Anyway you are correct in that they changed direction one time too many.

There where only 2 indeed. And i am very happy that they changed the game so much, there finally was something to do compared to pre-2.0, i do wish it would run better.

I like some improvement but dislike others.
So far it as been an improvement but i feel like they need to make pop mather more.
Right now there little more then minnor anoyance that you need to collect to have your jobs work.
Factions never cause problems, slave revolts are so rare they might aswhile not exist and your pop growth is now limeted to 1 spieces per turn.
I rather have a multi spieces empire rewarded by having many different spieces growth at the same time.
Having rapid breeders accauly outbreed slow breeders is immersive.
I feel like they have forgotten about the pop's.
And ofcourse still no spying dlc.....

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Ah two times.
Thanks for the correction.

nah its 3.

Henrik Fåhraeus pre-release
Martin Anward release-2.0
Daniel Moregård 2.0-present

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/74056185397843♥♥♥♥

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Ah two times.
Thanks for the correction.

nah its 3.

Henrik Fåhraeus pre-release
Martin Anward release-2.0
Daniel Moregård 2.0-present

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/74056185397843♥♥♥♥

Ah.
So i was right.
Thanks.

[galadon3]

Well technically the first one wasnt CHANGED so they changed 2 times but it was 3 lead devs^^

[Vyndicu]

Originally posted by evilgenius:

Originally posted by Vyndicu:

I believe there was only two game director so far for Stellaris?

Anyway you are correct in that they changed direction one time too many.

There where only 2 indeed. And i am very happy that they changed the game so much, there finally was something to do compared to pre-2.0, i do wish it would run better.

Really? The only issue is that Stellaris run slow?

Why do I find that hard to believe?

Perhaps there is nothing wrong with DLC being broken for years? Or any other dozens stuff that either not works as intended or isn't perfectly balanced? How Strike Craft only deal a fraction of the total dps compared to a missile and both against target that has no pd? There are more but I think I made my point.

Just out of curiosity, where do you draw the line? Would you give the same kind defense to other video game developer with the same issues?

[Evilgenius]

Originally posted by Vyndicu:

Really? The only issue is that Stellaris run slow?

Why do I find that hard to believe?

Perhaps there is nothing wrong with DLC being broken for years? Or any other dozens stuff that either not works as intended or isn't perfectly balanced? How Strike Craft only deal a fraction of the total dps compared to a missile and both against target that has no pd? There are more but I think I made my point.

Just out of curiosity, where do you draw the line? Would you give the same kind defense to other video game developer with the same issues?

My expectations of paradox launches has been tempered, i know what im getting into. I haven't seen any DLC beeing broken for years, there is nothing i can recall that is not working as intended right now. strike craft work.

Now balance is another thing, for me i absolutely don't care about balance. It is primarily a singleplayer game, so who cares about balance. Strike craft are underpreforming compared to missiles, ok big whoop. I still use them because they are fun. (plus they got patch so they move less retarded)

Does the game have flaws, ofcourse. But nothing big right now, except for the slow down after 2500 and being unbearable in 2700ish.

[Tellashim[GIF]]

Originally posted by evilgenius:

Does the game have flaws, ofcourse. But nothing big right now, except for the slow down after 2500 and being unbearable in 2700ish.

Those... are some pretty big flaws.

[Bozobub]

Originally posted by evilgenius:

Now balance is another thing, for me i absolutely don't care about balance. It is primarily a singleplayer game, so who cares about balance. Strike craft are underpreforming compared to missiles, ok big whoop. I still use them because they are fun. (plus they got patch so they move less retarded)

Funny, for a "primarily single-player" game, Wiz and Co. sure kissed a LOT of MP butt. Many dubious changes over many patches were made to propitiate the MP crowd, often over the complaints of the more numerous, but quieter SP majority.

This was a large component of why so many people were disgruntled about 2.0, point of fact. It was, for example, a prime mover behind the War Exhaustion mechanic and overhaul of wargoals.

Re: strike craft, you might have a point, if they weren't broken for years. But they were and are; 'nuff said.

[Sabaithal]

Welp, after reading this thread I now better understand WHY the game is all over the place, and broken in some areas. So thanks for that guys.

[Evilgenius]

Originally posted by Bozobub:

Funny, for a "primarily single-player" game, Wiz and Co. sure kissed a LOT of MP butt. Many dubious changes over many patches were made to propitiate the MP crowd, often over the complaints of the more numerous, but quieter SP majority.

This was a large component of why so many people were disgruntled about 2.0, point of fact. It was, for example, a prime mover behind the War Exhaustion mechanic and overhaul of wargoals.

I fully agree with you that they should focus more on the singleplayer aspect of the game, because multiplayer is trash anyway. But i don't see War Exhaustion mechanic and overhaul of wargoals as things implemented for MP, as I recall people were mostly disgruntled about 2.0 because they took away FTL's (wich is a shame, but not that major) and the general changes of how hyperlane system works (in my opinion alot better)

Originally posted by Bozobub:

Re: strike craft, you might have a point, if they weren't broken for years. But they were and are; 'nuff said.

They were never broke to the point you couldn't use them, there just aren't compatitive. I have used them from 1.0 till now, not on the majority of my battleship fleets, I am not completely suicidal.

Originally posted by Zefream Chochrane:

Originally posted by evilgenius:

Does the game have flaws, ofcourse. But nothing big right now, except for the slow down after 2500 and being unbearable in 2700ish.

Those... are some pretty big flaws.

Not really, all my games are finished around the 2600 mark, so it isn't a real problem right now. It does prevent me to do some things that i want, like Bigger then 800 star galaxies or 30 AI games. It is a shame, and a thing I really hope the can and will fix, but not a game breaker by far.

[Vyndicu]

Originally posted by evilgenius:

Originally posted by Vyndicu:

Really? The only issue is that Stellaris run slow?

Why do I find that hard to believe?

Perhaps there is nothing wrong with DLC being broken for years? Or any other dozens stuff that either not works as intended or isn't perfectly balanced? How Strike Craft only deal a fraction of the total dps compared to a missile and both against target that has no pd? There are more but I think I made my point.

Just out of curiosity, where do you draw the line? Would you give the same kind defense to other video game developer with the same issues?

My expectations of paradox launches has been tempered, i know what im getting into. I haven't seen any DLC beeing broken for years, there is nothing i can recall that is not working as intended right now. strike craft work.

Now balance is another thing, for me i absolutely don't care about balance. It is primarily a singleplayer game, so who cares about balance. Strike craft are underpreforming compared to missiles, ok big whoop. I still use them because they are fun. (plus they got patch so they move less retarded)

Does the game have flaws, ofcourse. But nothing big right now, except for the slow down after 2500 and being unbearable in 2700ish.

Endgame crisis sometime just flat out paralyze and ending up being stuck on "invading" a world. For democratic or govt with election: when election is over you normally get a leader back and you just don't get the starting leader back like at all. Leader gaining weird trait that makes no sense like machine leader getting substance abusive and Hive Mind Leader getting slave productivity trait. Of my favorite is a species getting both cyborg/psi at the same time and other similar situation where incompatible trait coming together somehow. I am sure you can find list of outstanding bugs here and there.

Most of those existed in some form or another for awhile and they are somehow very notorious and difficult to fix for some reason or another. Not sure why but it is what it is.


No I am not saying Strike Craft is broke beyond belief and deal far less DPS than they should even against stationary target and zero PD due to broke mechanics. Heck I just found out strike craft has yet one more previously unknown bug just today! The strike craft fix you spoke of were sorta of a bandaid fix and why do you think there are more than a few strike craft mods? Just search on google and link for some reason isn't showing up right.

https :/www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/dtewvx/psa_strikecraft_even_more_bugged_than_previously/

It is unfortunately a heavily multiplayer game with singleplayer stuff thrown in the mix. Why do you think they are always live steam multiplayer games, when they still did that, more often than singleplayer session?


Those are just the bug/glitches. I have not even touch on the design issues like defense platform and cruisers has no place in the end-game for min-maxing. The former will die in one or two volley from high alpha coupled with dozens of damage % repeatable techs owning to lack of hull scaling like armor/shield. The later doesn't fit very well in the current meta where everyone goes all in on battleship with L turret having enough track to kill cruiser effectively. Don't get me wrong cruiser do have their place early before you unlock battleship but that window is too short for my taste.

My personal pet peeve is the cursed efficient processor trait for robot/synth. Due to how job weight works in-game the auto-builder for robot/synth will heavily prefer to build one type instead of pick the right template for the right jobs especially if you give efficient processor to all available template. Like so.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1779966708

Then you can end up with synth with mining drill being built on a freaking ringworld like this. Notice how that I have no menial job available yet. This is vanilla automation by the way.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1779996163

If you remove efficient processor, which should work for 3 trait for 5% productivity, from some of the menial synth then auto-builder start behavior more rationally and pick the right menial templates.


There are few more game design issue like what I just spoke of.