Hyper Space v. Warp Drive v. Wormhole Travel

[milintarctrooper]

I have a weird question what is the overall advantage of Hyperspace vs. the other two travel options?

Hyperspace seems at this moment very gimped vs. the other two.

Because the players with warp drive can pick where ever you like to jump, which is important in offensive and survey capacity. Now the adjustment is the upgrading of the warp drive increasing speed and lowering cooldown.

Wormhole is unique because it can make your empire very centralized and and can with upgrading allow for huge offensive and defensive options especially with the upgraded wormhole tech. But the weakness is the wormhole station, if timed right in a sneak attack means an entire fleet can be lost in transit.

Hyperspace as it is currently implemented is fixed to standard routes. I would think hyperspace would allow you to jump via survey ships to a planet any direction, but to get the best advantage you have to select an construction vessel to build a hyperspace beacon to mark a system. And then select a hyperspace lane beacon if you want to make a corridor that will give your fleets an "express way" across your empire.

In the current form hyperspace forces a player to operate along standard routes that either a warp drive or wormhole travel player can by pass. Granted I havent seen anything that could indicate what drive type someone is using. Although wormhole transfer stations are easily spotted on the map allowing for strategic targeting.

And I do not see as of currently ways to slow down or trap players in a system defensively.

So I am at a loss at why hyperspace is in the game because it seems more of a strategic burden to the player who selects it. More so than Wormhole Transfer Travel, which is supposedly more advanced.

[RawCode]

holes are supid can cause complete transport collapse if you try to gather ships from 10 spaceports as they will prevent each other from moving anywhere.

[sortulf]

Wormhole is a logistical nightmare - many fleets are a huge problem (since only one can jump at a time), large fleets are a huge problem (since jump times increase with fleet size).
Basically wormhole shines at the very start, since it allows for fast movement within range, then starts to fall a bit when you get an empire. It is also terrible for discovery minded empires, due to the limited range from your own stations.

Hyperlane is best exploring drive, because you can always reach the entire galaxy with hyperdrives - it just takes a little while (and maybe some diplomacy) to get there.

Warp is universally good. It is basically just a short range jump drive...

[Jewbacca]

So here are the ideas so far:

Wormholes: currently the best no action needed others should be buffed to reach it's power.

Warp drives: Range increased to wormholes. You still need to wait the wind down, and the travel time itself so a little slower, but has no limitations of one fleet at a time, and no need to build the stations.

Hyperdrives: Hyperdrive beacon station buildable for 100 mineral, and cost 1 energy to maintain. Traveling from any beacon to any beacon in wormhole max. range goes at hyperdrive speed. This travel ignores borders, and cannot be interrupted. Also during normal travel ships no longer stops at each system, but the windup time increased by 50% for each "stop" on the way. They stop if order changed, or encounter enemy FTL snare stations however.

[Jewbacca]

Originally posted by sortulf:

Wormhole is a logistical nightmare - many fleets are a huge problem (since only one can jump at a time), large fleets are a huge problem (since jump times increase with fleet size).
Basically wormhole shines at the very start, since it allows for fast movement within range, then starts to fall a bit when you get an empire. It is also terrible for discovery minded empires, due to the limited range from your own stations.

Hyperlane is best exploring drive, because you can always reach the entire galaxy with hyperdrives - it just takes a little while (and maybe some diplomacy) to get there.

Warp is universally good. It is basically just a short range jump drive...

Wormhole has the greatest range, and ignores borders for jump. If the destination, and the start both outside of the forbidden area, then you can jump. Each wormhole can open one wormhole at a time, but if you got multiple wormholes for an example gathering a fleet from many planets, then each wormhole can open their own at the same time. The trick is, that you waypoint one of your planet instead of the fleet, and send the reinforcement once gathered rather than continously.

Hyperlane can be seriously ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up sometime. Enemy empire attack you, but you can't counterattack because border closed on the route. Also it's kinda slow on long routes.

Warp drive can ♥♥♥♥ you up if by not having any system to travel to in range. Also in great galaxies it's ridiculously slow to get through the galaxy.

[Lady Crimson (RIP)]

It's basically :

Wormholes: Defensive

Hyperlanes: Exploration/Agressive (keeping open borders with people is important)

Warp: Moderate (consistency.. basically a safe balanced).. harder to get blocked off for exploration.

I always go Hyperlanes since I enjoy quickly traveling across the galaxy without having to build wormhole generators all over to get to somewhere else on the other side of the galaxy. (my scientists explore.. a lot a lot)

[Lady Crimson (RIP)]

Originally posted by Jewbacca:

Originally posted by sortulf:

Wormhole is a logistical nightmare - many fleets are a huge problem (since only one can jump at a time), large fleets are a huge problem (since jump times increase with fleet size).
Basically wormhole shines at the very start, since it allows for fast movement within range, then starts to fall a bit when you get an empire. It is also terrible for discovery minded empires, due to the limited range from your own stations.

Hyperlane is best exploring drive, because you can always reach the entire galaxy with hyperdrives - it just takes a little while (and maybe some diplomacy) to get there.

Warp is universally good. It is basically just a short range jump drive...

Wormhole has the greatest range, and ignores borders for jump. If the destination, and the start both outside of the forbidden area, then you can jump. Each wormhole can open one wormhole at a time, but if you got multiple wormholes for an example gathering a fleet from many planets, then each wormhole can open their own at the same time. The trick is, that you waypoint one of your planet instead of the fleet, and send the reinforcement once gathered rather than continously.

Hyperlane can be seriously ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up sometime. Enemy empire attack you, but you can't counterattack because border closed on the route. Also it's kinda slow on long routes.

Warp drive can ♥♥♥♥ you up if by not having any system to travel to in range. Also in great galaxies it's ridiculously slow to get through the galaxy.

Warp is the safest, wormhole is the hardest because you have to physically build stations everywhere.. it works fine for protecting your own space and adjacent. Not to mention the enemy could just destroy all your wormhole generators and trap your fleet somewhere.

Hyperlane is my prefurred.. but WARP is viable for not getting blocked off.

[Azunai]

warpdrive looks nice overall - until you start your first war and realize that your whole fleet is in warp wind down for 80 days or something each time you jump from system to system. warp used to be the best drive for quite a while, but since they nerfed the wind down, it's really a PITA to do offensive wars with warp drive fleets.

haven't played with hyperlanes for a long time, but i guess they aren't as bad as they used to be (compared to the now much weaker warp).

WH is still good i guess - if you don't mind the extra layer of work (WH generators). never liked it particularly, but it's a solid choice. also saves you some energy in your ship designs since the ships don't need an FTL drive.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

I agree.
We shoud turn hyperspace into star gate's.

Or beter yet:
Make a new engine called star gates(basicly creating an instant travel between gate's but require gates on both side's otherwise they shoud have the slowest movement)

And fix hyperspace by simply removing all cooldowns.
Give them there speed back(even if you insist on keeping the move to edge of the system weakness)


Also:
Wormholes are overpowered as can be.
1 energie(pocked change) for near instant long range travel?
I create hubs of wormhole(well defended hubs ofcourse)
And my fleets can be all over my empire.
I hate the made it impossible to build stations in enemy territory.
My prefeered stratagy was:
Jump in system with fleet and start murdering.
Send in builder to build a wormhole station and a defendsive station with healing aura while there fighting.
Rise and repeat untill enemy is dead.

[andrew.gaiennie]

Warp is very frustrating for me, especially after you start having 10k fleets. The cooldown is terrible, which is the advantage of hyperdrive:minimal cooldown. Your ships enter and leave a system so much faster that if you get ahead you're near-impossible to catch. I should point out that hyperdrives are best when you have to fight a stronger enemy: you can get in, wreck their stations and get out every time. play a little cat and mouse to drag their super fleet to the other side of the map and then run back and cap a planet. If you want a more engaging combat experiance, for a 4X game, hyperdrive is the way to go.

[Stormfox]

If Wormholes were not so stupidly fiddly, they would be by far the best travel method until jumpdrives arrive. As it stands, though, I really do not like the amount of micromanagement they enforce and therfore always default to warp.

This brings the aforementioned problems of long cooldowns with it in the midgame wars, though.

[Elementium]

To me, all FTL are good, but it depend of player playstyle

Warp
No real restriction, you travel as you want an experience a freedom of move at the price to do it slowly, engaging the drive take a while , travel are not fast (in FTL term) & the cooling down when reaching the system are long.

Having large empire make this FTL tech not really efficient in order to defend on multiple fronts.

Hyperspace
You can only travel on lanes, you travel quite fast between lane with a low cooling down time when ou reach a system.

But beware that some ennemy will know where you must travel. And the empire who close their border might lock you.

Wormhole
Instant travel, charging the jump depend of fleet size, cooling down time quite low,quite long range of jump. Your ship ship need a wormhole modulator in order to jump, letting you put more energy on your ship .

The problem is that you have to build wormhole stations, and if they are destroy, you are locked. If the other don't let build them on their territory, well you can't go anyfurther, locking you for exploring the rest of the galaxy.

Personnaly I prefer warp > wormhole > hyperspace

For more intels: https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/FTL

[Jewbacca]

Originally posted by Lady Crimson:

Originally posted by Jewbacca:

Wormhole has the greatest range, and ignores borders for jump. If the destination, and the start both outside of the forbidden area, then you can jump. Each wormhole can open one wormhole at a time, but if you got multiple wormholes for an example gathering a fleet from many planets, then each wormhole can open their own at the same time. The trick is, that you waypoint one of your planet instead of the fleet, and send the reinforcement once gathered rather than continously.

Hyperlane can be seriously ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up sometime. Enemy empire attack you, but you can't counterattack because border closed on the route. Also it's kinda slow on long routes.

Warp drive can ♥♥♥♥ you up if by not having any system to travel to in range. Also in great galaxies it's ridiculously slow to get through the galaxy.

Warp is the safest, wormhole is the hardest because you have to physically build stations everywhere.. it works fine for protecting your own space and adjacent. Not to mention the enemy could just destroy all your wormhole generators and trap your fleet somewhere.

Hyperlane is my prefurred.. but WARP is viable for not getting blocked off.

Maybe against player who actually goes for it. Though i keep a construction ship close to my fleet to build new wormhole stations. Basicly the only way to destroy my construction ship, and prevent my wormhole travel is to destroy my fleet first, and if you can do that then no FTL will save me. AI never goes for cutting off the wormhole stations. Yes it attack them if it's in the way, but won't splitfleet to hunt down the stations.

[milintarctrooper]

I remember a crises as the Commonwealth of Man which the other Human Race with Wormhole Tech. Pirates were in my space, and I jumped into their system via Wormhole, and they being a splinter of my faction had wormhole as well. But when I jumped in. the Wormhole Station was right next to my fleet. And needless to say it was quickly annilated, just as the pirate fleet was jumping towards their base...instant wipe of the entire pirate fleet.

So it seems alot of players are agreeing with a new FTL adjustment? Especially giving Hyperspace users more strategic options?

Could there be a fourth Drive?

I was thinking of somesort of Beam Riding Drive. Where your space ships ride a laser beam to and from the stars. Or Quantum Drive where the space ships enter different planes of extistance. To reach a point.

And one question, is there a lost in space crises? Where for some odd reason a players fleet, survey vessel gets thrown somewhere in the galaxy? And you have to either rescue them, or colonize somewhere on the other side of the galaxy?

[milintarctrooper]

Originally posted by Jewbacca:

So here are the ideas so far:

Wormholes: currently the best no action needed others should be buffed to reach it's power.

Warp drives: Range increased to wormholes. You still need to wait the wind down, and the travel time itself so a little slower, but has no limitations of one fleet at a time, and no need to build the stations.

Hyperdrives: Hyperdrive beacon station buildable for 100 mineral, and cost 1 energy to maintain. Traveling from any beacon to any beacon in wormhole max. range goes at hyperdrive speed. This travel ignores borders, and cannot be interrupted. Also during normal travel ships no longer stops at each system, but the windup time increased by 50% for each "stop" on the way. They stop if order changed, or encounter enemy FTL snare stations however.

I think the order would be this.

Hyperspace Beacon 50 mineral 1 Energy. [This allows you to access a system without having to constantly have a survey vessel back and forth in it. Meaning as the system intel degrades construction ships and fleets can not access.]

Hyperspace Lane Beacon 150 mineral 5 Energy. [This marks a Hyperspace Lane which means ships can travel the Lane at a greatly increased speed and reduced cool down at the end points. Ships on a Hyperspace Lane will ignore planetary systems along the Hyperspace Lane path, unless they are accessing a planetary system off the lane, or reach a border with a rival/allied empire that doesnt have open border diplomacy with you, or connected hyperspace lane.]

New Technologies with Hyperspace Drive

Hyper Drive I-IV if not V. [Or even a Ascendency Bonus included.] Gradual speed increases but the Hyper Drive takes more power. [So you can have the "Millenium Falcon" in speed, but the energy cost will be considerable.]
Hyper Drive Computer I-IV. Decrease in cooldown between beacons, if a ship uses a hyper space lane this cooldown applies to exiting the hyperspace lane.

Diplomacy
Open Border Right of Way
Allied FTL Right of Way
Friendly Empires who sign this accord, have the ability to designate corridors of their space for allies nations to move through, hey we all have areas we want to be off limits even to our allies. Nations with Hyper Drive and Wormhole get the ability to build Hyperdrive Beacons and Wormhole stations inside Designated Corridors or inside allied territory. Also the option to link up with Allied Hyperspace Lanes is opened as an option after this diplomacy is enacted.

FTL Standardization Empires who sign this accord usually a federation or alliance, can standardize methods of FTL travel, if not have a preferred standard. This can allow a player to diversify drive types for his ships.

FTL Star Charts allied empires can see and use allied FTL methods. This means an allied empire with Wormhole or Hyper Drive can now use wormhole stations and hyperdrive lane/beacons in your territory as well. Warp well just can operate in a designated corridor as it so pleases.

FTL Star Toll any empire can enact a unique option that charges either allied or enemy empires a set energy, mineral, or influence cost of chosing to cross their territory through their cooridors. Hey crossing my lawn isnt free!

For different factions with Xenophile, Xenophobe, Authoritarian, Materialist, Spiritualist, etc. The options and selections like bribery, giving a technology, extortion would add alot to the strategic flavor of FTL usage.