Hyper Space v. Warp Drive v. Wormhole Travel

[milintarctrooper]

I have a weird question what is the overall advantage of Hyperspace vs. the other two travel options?

Hyperspace seems at this moment very gimped vs. the other two.

Because the players with warp drive can pick where ever you like to jump, which is important in offensive and survey capacity. Now the adjustment is the upgrading of the warp drive increasing speed and lowering cooldown.

Wormhole is unique because it can make your empire very centralized and and can with upgrading allow for huge offensive and defensive options especially with the upgraded wormhole tech. But the weakness is the wormhole station, if timed right in a sneak attack means an entire fleet can be lost in transit.

Hyperspace as it is currently implemented is fixed to standard routes. I would think hyperspace would allow you to jump via survey ships to a planet any direction, but to get the best advantage you have to select an construction vessel to build a hyperspace beacon to mark a system. And then select a hyperspace lane beacon if you want to make a corridor that will give your fleets an "express way" across your empire.

In the current form hyperspace forces a player to operate along standard routes that either a warp drive or wormhole travel player can by pass. Granted I havent seen anything that could indicate what drive type someone is using. Although wormhole transfer stations are easily spotted on the map allowing for strategic targeting.

And I do not see as of currently ways to slow down or trap players in a system defensively.

So I am at a loss at why hyperspace is in the game because it seems more of a strategic burden to the player who selects it. More so than Wormhole Transfer Travel, which is supposedly more advanced.

[Bomber]

In general I would agree that wormhole > warp > hyperlanes.

But you can play games with only one kind of drive allowed and "hyperlanes only" games are by far the most fun stellaris games you can have. It hyperlane only games you have more strategy/tactic and fortesses are a great defense structure (at least for the first 150-200 years). You can create bottlenecks or manage to attack enemys on top (awesome with low range kinetic weapons) or you decide to only enter with range (to make the most use of missiles), etc.

Actually at the beginning I played ~100 hours with all drives (loved warp the most), but now since month (and actually another 500 hours in stellaris) I always play hyperlanes only games, nothing else creates that much fun.

[kknd]

Well originally Hyperspace let you enter FTL anywhere in a system. This gave it a pretty big advantage in terms of combat applications, the ability to pop out of a system without having to exit the gravity well has applications.

That being said: As it stands, aside from hyperspace only games essentially being an entire second 4x game to play? Yeah Hyperspace needs something to help it along.

As for the 'beacon' idea? I think something like that might work as either a late game development for hyperspace (artifical Hyperlaning tech) or as a 4th FTL drive that's inefficent unless going from beacon to beacon, something like wormhole in reverse.

[Benjamin]

dunno

[Land]

People keep banging on about Wormholes being great but I found them quite frustrating and quite costly on your income given how many you'll have to make.
Warp Drive for me has always been my pick and I've not really had any problems, 'cept having wind down times but be annoying but nothing horrible since if you land on the enemy, that wind down is instantly dismissed.

[mcsproot]

The only argument Hyperdrive has going for it is that it creates an additional layer of strategy when it's a Hyperdrive only game. Otherwise it's pathetic. It's fast between individual systems, but very slow to cross a large portion of the galaxy. IMO the wind up and wind down times should be very low (5 days tops) and upgraded versions should allow you to hop multiple systems. Subspace Anchor stations will still grab and halt a fleet. Imagine the hopping as being they go from system to system, but have a non-existant wind up or wind down.

I used to like wormholes, but early game they are crippling. You can't explore very far so you can't plan your expansion, and their price early on is quite high. Once you hit the mid-game they're cheap and nothing can beat wormhole for long distance travel. Wormhole is also unique in that it can hop right over closed borders, not even Jump Drive does that. The main reason I played Wormhole before as it was the only drive that allowed you to get Jump Drive.

These days I play Warp almost all the time. I'll give Hyperdrive or Wormhole a try once in awhile but they just remind me why I don't play them. Warp is simple and effective, though the wind down times are quite crazy. Though it does help to pay attention, if you're going into enemy territory as Warp, bunny hop the systems rather than going from as far away as you can. Being a sitting duck for 2 months isn't fun when you go max range at Warp III, but if you warp to a nearby star then warp from there, it helps cut down on being stuck around. At least they changed it so Warp ships aren't totally helpless when winding down.

[PirateRob]

Hyper Drive has no Wind Down... ships arriving in system via Hyperdrive can immediatly begin moving in system. They do have a 'Wind up' mechanic instead... so when HD ships arrive at the edge of a system, they have to wind up the drive before they can jump. That makes the tactically superior to Warp ships... at least it used to...

[Bike Knight]

Hyperlanes are great for getting massive fleets (100k+) around quickly when warp or wormholes would have 2 months to cooldown/make a new hole. They are trash in spiral arm galaxies.
Warp is good for free expansion and survey, but the cooldown times are crippling.
Wormholes are great for reacting quickly to threats near the border and minmaxing ship power because wormhole drives cost 0 power. They are annoying because you have to micro construction ships placing stations after your fleet/survey ships.

[Your Neighbour]

If you allowa all, hyperlanes really fall short.

But if you play hyperlanes only it's quite fun, you can lock down a whole sector by building on those single lanes and military station will see a lot more action time. Otherwise it's the battle between wormhole and warp.

[Jewbacca]

Hyperlanes with beacon would be interesting. Fleets can jump to beacon from huge range (equal to the top level wormhole station), but it works only TO the beacon. Also movement speed is similar to the regular hyperlane speed.

Wormhole is great as it is. I think the other methods should be buffed to it.

I would increase warp's range drastically. Something more similar to wormhole stations. You already pay with power for the drive, then wait TWICE for each jump, and also wait for the movement itself. This is a lot waiting especially when you have to go through half of the galaxy. Also sometimes RNG cut you off early, because there is no system in range to jump.

[milintarctrooper]

From my perspective, the Wormhole is terrifyingly easy. Although its "advanced" especially when you shift key your Survey Ships to every single planet around you in your circle. Also Wormhole Stations can be built anywhere inside your borders. So you can upgrade or ascend your borders then woops over the edge Jump Survey + Frontier Outpost Lock Down. Rinse and Repeat. And this becomes more powerful with the +50% Wormhole Range. Which means in your core systems if you have overlapping wormhole generators you can seriously pull some interesting offensive defensive stuff. Also I found that there is no cool down between wormhole ships even if they are evading a hostile fleet kind of funny to see a survey ship constantly insta porting between hostile systems and the nearest wormhole station.

Warp is kind of meh, the cool down is the major figuring, but you can work around it. By formentioned micro jumps. And you cant bounce over borders like a wormhole can.

That is why I am kind of ehrrr? with Hyper Space Drive game mode. And mentioned the beacon idea. A Hyperspace Beacon so that the system can be accessed after being surveyed, while a Hyperspace Lane Beacon creates a speed bonus between systems so you can make a "road" between critical systems so your fleets can move to the front or defensive positions.

It kind of comes out of my experience with Sins of Solar Empire series. Where the Vasari have a unique faction only hyperspace lane stabilizer which allows the Vasari to jump anywhere another hyperspace lane stabilizer has been built, within a galaxy. Kind of cool and allows them some capacity to defend or attack at their chosing.

[Jewbacca]

My other idea for hyperspace buff is change the way it travels. Instead of windup in each system your fleet wind up only once at the start of the route. The windup time increased by 50% for each system you travel through, but once it finished your ships won't stop at all in the systems it goes through. Exceptions: If you change the fleet's order, Enemy FTL snare stations interrupt your route.

[milintarctrooper]

That would be an excellent way to balance it out.
Probably FTL snare or interruptor stations would be an excellent way to slow down warp drive, deny wormhole, or interrupt hyperspace travel.

The Laning option would give your empire some serious capacity to create unique strategic highways in your controlled territory with Hyperspace Systems.

[kknd]

Originally posted by milintarctrooper:

That would be an excellent way to balance it out.
Probably FTL snare or interruptor stations would be an excellent way to slow down warp drive, deny wormhole, or interrupt hyperspace travel.

The Laning option would give your empire some serious capacity to create unique strategic highways in your controlled territory with Hyperspace Systems.

I agree. Those two additions would give hyperdrive both a unique flavor and give strategic options to use.

[milintarctrooper]

I was trying out an empire using HyperDrive and it felt very very problematic. So it kind of forced me to go Supremacy for the 20% border increase so I could access some of my surveyed planets, And then galactic ambitions for the other 20%. Because for each Outpost it costs a very large chunk of change and influence. So I was forced to colonize even low habitability planets. Just to offset my lower usage of outposts.

HyperDrive as it is currently just doesnt feel right. And seems to hamper a player alot more than it should. Especially when you have very specific lanes that go outside your borders and back in.

It should have the beacon and hypspace lane option. Just to give strategic options.

And of course either a FTL snare system, or like the Sins of Solar Empire Vasari which has a unique vessel that can delay or push a penalty on FTL speed if an enemy fleet is coming into the system one of the ships is based in. Or the Imperial Interdictor class Star Destroyer with Mass Generators.

[Tex]

If you really want the best game for Hyperlanes you should use these mods. The first ones makes Hyperdrives better and the second makes it so even Fallen Empires and Crisis Invaders are locked to only Hyperdrives.


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=793526342

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=793526440