Democratic Crusaders and Hive Minds

[ඞ]

So, playing as a Hive Mind, and the first aliens I've encountered are Democratic Crusaders. What I don't understand, is that they instantly hate me b/c i'm "an Autocracy," even thought they want to "liberate" my pops, they don't seem to care doing so would kill them. I feel as if they should not get a -100 penalty b/c I am biologically unable to be democratic. Just a thought.

[cooltv27]

but hiveminds are the single most democratic empire in existance.
either billions of drones that have opinions can be heard and their opinion processed, or there is only 1 intellegence that exists and so every being with free will has an equal say

[ඞ]

Actually, it's the exact opposite. The Hive Mind is the only one with actual freedom, the pops are mindless drones to be controlled directly by the Hive Mind, while the leaders are granted limited self capabilites to beable to assist the hive Mind in other matters that it is too busy to do all by itself(ie; researching tech or leading battles). But still, Dem. Crusaders are basically telling me to KMS in the name of Democracy or they're gonna do it for me....

[Warfox]

Sounds like you've met your first new thralls.

[ඞ]

Originally posted by Warfox:

Sounds like you've met your first new thralls.

I like the way you think....yet they out tech me....RIP

[paugus]

You will be assimilated...

then forced to vote. And also exterminated.

Say what you will about the tenets of Democratic Crusaders man, but at least it's an ethos.

[Apeironic_Entelechy]

It makes sense that they hate you, they adore freedom and Hive Minds are the ultimate antitheis of freedom. Sure it would be more reasonable to recognize that Hive Minds function very different so applying one's standard of freedom to them is unreasonable, but crusaders of all stripes are generally not reasonable people.

[cooltv27]

but the drones are not people, they already had no free will and infact do not survive when disconnected from the hive. they are in no way "sentient" or "individuals" anymore than the cells in your body.
the drones have as much free will as the hand, none. sometimes the hand does things beyond the minds control but it is not productive, it is not coherent, it is not free will. it is a total loss of control and a very poor reaction to not being controled.
drones that break from the hive do not become individuals (without outside help), they become a danger to the hives presence in the area and must be dealt with the same way dead cells are dealt with.

my hive mind is far more democratic than your empire, I am the only being with free will, the only one that has opinions. if any single individual has any amount less say then your democracy is imperfect, while mine remains perfect. you can never be more democratic than I, only equally.
you condemn me for not being democratic? then you condemn yourself.

[Karina]

I wonder if its possible to undo hivemind via biological research. Im not talking about removing trait- im talking about changing government and ethics.

[Wraitteli]

Well since in politics facts matter nothing over political agenda. Demogratic crusaders are empires that want bring "freedom and demogracy" to any other empires. Ring a bell?

[Dinoman]

Originally posted by cooltv27:

but the drones are not people, they already had no free will and infact do not survive when disconnected from the hive. they are in no way "sentient" or "individuals" anymore than the cells in your body.
the drones have as much free will as the hand, none. sometimes the hand does things beyond the minds control but it is not productive, it is not coherent, it is not free will. it is a total loss of control and a very poor reaction to not being controled.
drones that break from the hive do not become individuals (without outside help), they become a danger to the hives presence in the area and must be dealt with the same way dead cells are dealt with.

my hive mind is far more democratic than your empire, I am the only being with free will, the only one that has opinions. if any single individual has any amount less say then your democracy is imperfect, while mine remains perfect. you can never be more democratic than I, only equally.
you condemn me for not being democratic? then you condemn yourself.

I think this more about the limits of the game than anything else. The only hive mind trait I've seen came from a mod I used to have, so if it's a new trait you can somehow develop in game it's news to me, and the mod trait just pops more in line with the status quo.

To the uneducated or the unwilling to accept things as they are, as Crusaders tend to be, this seems like autocracy when in fact it's the very existence of the species. They need a higher intelligence to command them, otherwise they die, but to zealous outsiders, this seems like a more powerful individual exerting power over the weak and using them all like slaves. People can't seem to grasp the ideals of a more advanced ant-like society gaining sentience without multiple inviduals being able to think for themselves.

Moreover, look at all the hive minds in sci-fi. They all seem to be treated with a sense of abhorrence because it's one mind made up of many individuals, something individual sentient creatures refuse to try to understand more often than not and just treat them like the universe's worst thing. (Just don't tell them that this is basically what their ancestors were on a cellular scale billions of years before!)

[Tiitinen]

Originally posted by 01:

So, playing as a Hive Mind, and the first aliens I've encountered are Democratic Crusaders. What I don't understand, is that they instantly hate me b/c i'm "an Autocracy," even thought they want to "liberate" my pops, they don't seem to care doing so would kill them. I feel as if they should not get a -100 penalty b/c I am biologically unable to be democratic. Just a thought.

If they possess the means to genetically alter pops then they might just turn your drones into happy citizens, NO ONE CAN ESCAPE FREEDOM

[Dinoman]

Originally posted by Tiitinen:

Originally posted by 01:

So, playing as a Hive Mind, and the first aliens I've encountered are Democratic Crusaders. What I don't understand, is that they instantly hate me b/c i'm "an Autocracy," even thought they want to "liberate" my pops, they don't seem to care doing so would kill them. I feel as if they should not get a -100 penalty b/c I am biologically unable to be democratic. Just a thought.

If they possess the means to genetically alter pops then they might just turn your drones into happy citizens, NO ONE CAN ESCAPE FREEDOM

Well what if it's a hive mind like ants like I said before, where only certain individuals can breed? Doomed the race to extinction if you kill the reproducing leaders.

[cooltv27]

Originally posted by Dinoman9877:

To the uneducated or the unwilling to accept things as they are, as Crusaders tend to be, this seems like autocracy when in fact it's the very existence of the species. They need a higher intelligence to command them, otherwise they die, but to zealous outsiders, this seems like a more powerful individual exerting power over the weak and using them all like slaves. People can't seem to grasp the ideals of a more advanced ant-like society gaining sentience without multiple inviduals being able to think for themselves.

id just keep pointing those people to the fact that your bodys cells are basically the same thing. we see single celled organisms exist and that your body foribly exerts control over them with no regard to those cells as individual beings.

but ultimately its probably a problem with how the game works

[paugus]

Originally posted by Dinoman9877:

Well what if it's a hive mind like ants like I said before, where only certain individuals can breed? Doomed the race to extinction if you kill the reproducing leaders.

Yellow crazy ant workers can still lay eggs that can produce haploid males to mate with in case of the queen being suddenly killed. I'm sure a 'true' hivemind would have similar failsafes.

Plus, if an empire is capable of genetically modifying a creature to remove them from a hivemind and rewrite their entire psycho/physiological structure, I'm guessing they could figure out a way to clone or otherwise reproduce them.

[Apeironic_Entelechy]

Originally posted by cooltv27:

Originally posted by Dinoman9877:

To the uneducated or the unwilling to accept things as they are, as Crusaders tend to be, this seems like autocracy when in fact it's the very existence of the species. They need a higher intelligence to command them, otherwise they die, but to zealous outsiders, this seems like a more powerful individual exerting power over the weak and using them all like slaves. People can't seem to grasp the ideals of a more advanced ant-like society gaining sentience without multiple inviduals being able to think for themselves.

id just keep pointing those people to the fact that your bodys cells are basically the same thing. we see single celled organisms exist and that your body foribly exerts control over them with no regard to those cells as individual beings.

but ultimately its probably a problem with how the game works

The difference is that your cells cannot be given sapience, while it's possible to give hive minds pops intelligence. So just because it's natural doesn't mean the drones are any less slaves, now that doesn't bother me but I'm not a Democratic Crusader ;P