Finally figured out why to choose Lucky Shot

[Giantbore]

I used to think it was a useless talent. Seriously useless and I couldn't find anything on the forum that would change that assesment. After using an item on an archer that I also had thought pretty useless before I think I have changed my mind. (The item makes it so your attacks are never deflected)

I think it's pretty much for your archers because they tend to have lower STR. Lets say you have an archer with 9 STR. You have a monster Dredge coming your teams way the turn after your archer that has 14 ARM and 16 STR.

Normally if you did not have lucky shot your chance to hit with 1 pt. of damage is 50% and by adding 3 exertion/WIL stars it's 50% for 4 pts. of damage.

With Lucky Shot at 50% you now have a 100% chance of hitting it for 1-4 damage. Doing 4 damage with an archer to something that heavily armored used to be a dream and not worth the risk of getting in it's range. But put a Aggro reduction on your archer and it's a lot safer even if you have to venture out a bit and even if he does go for you, you just brought his damage he would do to you down by 4.

[Aleonymous]

That's indeed the intended use for that Talent. However, I think it would couple better with an item that adds +Damage (if attack is successful), on top of the 1-4 you mentioned. Else, this tactic of boldly walking up and attacking high-ARM enemies is only viable if that enemy has low STR...

[Giantbore]

My poor memory can only think of one item that adds STR damage (as opposed to STR) which is the Umbr root but I'm not sure that would work as straight +dam if the archers STR is much, much lower than the ARM of the opponent or if it works much like puncture. Does anyone know which of the two ways that would work?

I didn't explain very well the first time. It's only boldly walking up to them sometimes. I rarely do that quite that. Usually you are behind stronger units or out of range with a +2 to range item. I also find it very useful if your archer has taken damage already (usually towards the end of the battle) and a lower level unit about to attack your archer. In this case lets say your archer has been multiple targeted by other archers or slingers and is has 9 ARM and 3 STR left. A Dredge grunt with 8 ARM and 9 STR is going to be coming for you right after your archers turn. Without 50% Lucky Shot you have a 50% chance of doing the 4 Dmg you want to and if you miss he is going to have 100% chance of doing 1 + whatever his EXE score is of damage to you, killing you or making you very close to death.

With Lucky Shot you are guaranteed to bring him down to 5 STR and only have a 60% chance of doing the same.

Maybe it won't make much of a difference with the RNG seeming to be off in favor of the monsters but what if in a slightly different case it changed the percentage from 60% to 20%?

I know these are "what if" situations and might be rare, but so far I've actually found it to be pretty useful. I HATE having an archer add 2 or 3 WIL points when there is a percentage chance to hit and love to add them when it's a sure thing.

It seems to have saved my bacon in a couple of the tougher battles in the Normal mode of Survival and I imagine it will be more useful in the Hard mode when everything had more ARM. In the Survival Mode the monsters AI seems to be a lot more sophiticated where they will go for a "weak" Hero and gang up on them and the hardest battles are where the game does not allow for you to have a starting position where you can keep your archers and menders "safely away" at the beginning. One example of this is where you fight a few regular dredge, a vile skulker and 6 or 7 warped dredge.

You make a very good point that it is more useful with items that add Dmg. I'm going to try to find an updated item list and hopefully get one of those in a survival battle.

Thanks for responding! It's always good to get other viewpoints and facts I hadn't considered before.

[Aleonymous]

Archer exposed to one-shot situations is usually bad play. Some RNG-relying ability/Talent/attack might save your hide once or twice, but Denglr can only protect you so much :)

Whatever the case, I don't really like Lucky Shot and I consider it the weakest Talent (btw, I've compiled them all here: https://bannersaga.gamepedia.com/Talents). It's true that Archer stats max-out really fast, so you're bound to pick a couple of them Talents if you keep promoting them; but, I'd pick Dodge over Lucky Shot (both are EXE Talents) anytime.

[Giantbore]

I feel like you are saying anyone (or perhaps just myself) that likes Lucky Shot are bad players.

I rarely expose my archers to "one-shot" situations as you say are such bad play. I have found it useful time after time even when behind varl or tanks or out of range of opponents.

To me it is the ONLY talent that helps most of the time my hero is using an attacking action. The only rare times it would not help at all is if the opponents ARM is less than my STR and if that is the case those are the units I don't worry much about until it's cleanup time at the end.

Every other talent (except Defy) is a much smaller percentage chance of doing something usually only in specific situations. Defy is something you hope to never be in a situation to use with proper management of archers.

I can understand and respect that you have a different opinion.

The work you have contributed for the Banner Saga on gamepedia is impressive and a good resource, too bad it's hard to find a lot of the pages that are useful because they aren't listed in the navigation on the left side.

[Aleonymous]

Originally posted by ;357287935559234820:

I feel like you are saying anyone (or perhaps just myself) that likes Lucky Shot are bad players.

No offense meant! And if I did, I apologize. I was just saying that there's more efficient ways to win battles, Talents that are more reliable etc. On the other hand, most "sound tactics" often get boring and repetitive, so it's many a times more fun to put yourself in a bit of a challenge (and RNG-dependence!).

[Giantbore]

Apology accepted! I STILL going to vehemently disagree that there's "more efficient" ways to win battles. How are any other talents more reliable? If you are going to make a firm statement like that then I am going to rise to the challenge! I don't want this to be an argument but more a sharing of both good points and bad from two players.

It seems pretty clear to me that Lucky Shot IS the more reliable talent. It works in yoru favor nearly every single time. Sometimes it works a little, sometimes a lot. The other option at the same rank is a 15% chance to avoid an attack. I don't know about you but my archer is attacking A LOT more often than she is being attacked.

I like you Aleo and I hope you understand I'm writing this last message with a smile on my face. I was happy to say "let's agree to disagree" and respect each others opinions but if you are going to keep saying stuff like my choice is not more efficient way to win battles and other talents are more reliable and imply "hey sometimes sound tactics get boring!" lets give the "lesser" method a try! then I am going to defend what I have been saying by sound logic.

When you talk about something being more RNG-dependant that would be all the other talents, not Lucky Shot. Lucky shot does not only work a RANDOM percentage of the time. It either helps you (in most cases) or it doesn't hurt you if your puny archer happens to have a higher STR than the ARM of your opponent. Can someone back me up here????

EVERY other talent does use chance and thus uses a RNG.

o.k. I'm not going to say another thing about this. Like I said, I don't really want to argue. You can even tell me Lucky Shot is for newbs or whatever and I'll say, I may not like what you are saying but I'll still like you. (not that you would really do that).

[Aleonymous]

I think the strongest Talent is Artery Strike. Strength is one of the first stats you typically max, and there's plenty of items (and a couple of abilities) that stack CRIT on top of that Talent. Having a 60% chance to do a CRIT with a high-STR hero isn't something you pass. It's true that CRITs can sometimes ruin your plans (kill an enemy where you just wanna maim him), but it's mostly a cheer seeing Gunnulf Tempest with 2-3 CRITs :)

As for Lucky Strike, eer, Lucky Shot, I just wished the over-100% Talent points were translated into +dmg. For example, if your regular hit-chance is 80% and LS gives you another 50%, then you do 1+3=4 dmg (up to 7 with +3WIL). Now that would be an OP Talent :P

[vtc]

You can crit on a lucky shot with three will bonus damage for eight damage, and both Rokr's Last Bet, which pump up exertion talents by two and Eyeless Rift, which prevents misses add a 10% chance of crit. Not something you can rely on, but it can still win some turns.

[cadex]

@Aleonymous Since you seem quite knowledgeable about the matter, I have a question. I increased lucky shot for Oli, so his axe storm would hit more frequently. But sometimes even the first shot missed, which should not be possible with lucky shot and 40 % bonus hit chance. Or is lucky shot ignored for axe storm?